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Thread: Has anyone studied covert hypnosis? - apparent great for the story aspect

  1. #1
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    Default Has anyone studied covert hypnosis? - apparent great for the story aspect

    Hey guys, awhile back I was learning about covert hypnosis, got buy and did not really follow through with it. But from what I can remember it would be a great tool to add to the story telling phase of picking up.

    What covert hypnosis is suppose to do songs great in theory, but I am unsure if it actually works.

    Has anyone tried this out in the field or in everyday life?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Has anyone studied covert hypnosis? - apparent great for the story aspe

    Great question. Covert hypnosis *can* be a very cool addition to your story phase. In a sense, it's really like amping up the story phase to build strong rapport - not only quickly, but rapport that lasts. FYI, Covert Hypnosis is just a buzz word for NLP, which came out of Gestalt Therapy in the 70's.

    However - Neuro-linguistics Programming is a very deep field of study in its own right. It is *very* easy to get results with superficial techniques, but the deeper techniques are incredibly difficult to master. It is very easy to accidentally blow yourself out of frame so strongly that there is no recovery. SO I recommend just practicing a few techniques - primarily calibration techniques, as they give the most inital bang for the buck.

    That said, the stages are similar to the Love Systems or Mystery Methods, and there's a lot of synergy with pickup. In fact some pickup techniques are really concrete implementations of a particular NLP technique for seduction purposes.

    The main thing with NLP/Covert Hypnosis is to ensure that you are properly *calibrated*. You have to practice this and practice this or you will be mis-calibrated and blow yourself out. This is a bit like mirroring - which is an NLP technique itself, incidentally. Once someone realizes you are mirroring them, mirroring loses its impact, and they can resent that they were falling for it.

    I use NLP with pickup in primarily the following ways:

    Open: Mirror body language *subtly*, project my confidence frame
    Transition: Match target's conversational pitch and cadence, begin calibration of mind map, calibrate representational senses
    Attraction: Representational transfer, Kinesthetic Anchoring, Meta-modeling, deepen Calibration
    Qualification: Test Calibration, Milton Method, Pacing, Meta-programs
    Comfort: Kinesthetic Anchor playback used with Meta-programs
    Seduction: Activate Meta-programs, assume state

    I actually use a *lot* more than is necessary for straight pickup, though I don't use all of these techniques all the time. That's impossible, and proper calibration tells you what to use and what not to use. I mainly put all of this to give you a good idea of what to read up on.

    Learning the mind-map, NLP Kino Anchoring, and proper calibration is more than enough to give you a serious edge on most PUAs, and will also turn most fcloses into longer term FWBs. This is primarily because these techniques help you know what she's thinking and feeling. With NLP, you've hooked into her psyche, and you can elicit emotional responses at will - and even set up defensive Meta-programs to prevent normal emotional responses to typical kino, or ones that put her into a socially uncomfortable state when approached by others.

    NOTE: Adding Meta-programs into the mix can be tricky, as you can wind up with an obsessed stalker chick.

    All these things, btw, are short-term conditioning, and require maintenance or they fade. A chick has to be HB9-10 imo to warrant much use of Meta-programming, unless you're just learning/practicing.

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    Default Re: Has anyone studied covert hypnosis? - apparent great for the story aspe

    Hey thanks for the great post, I think we all can use this and learn from you. A great addition to the community.

    Few questions:

    How long have you studied NLP and NLP techniques?

    Did you take it in school or for a hobby?

    Any books / audio courses you recommend?

    And is there any books you recommend for meta-programming?

  4. #4
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    Talking Re: Has anyone studied covert hypnosis? - apparent great for the story aspe

    Glad to be of assistance. I'm sure I will learn just as much from the experience and advice of this community.

    I've studied nlp for about ten or eleven years now, and have practiced it for about that long. I'm not an instructor, nor am I affiliated with any of the programs out there. I learned for purely selfish reasons, like my eternal curiosity about the human mind.
    It's purely a hobby. I don't believe any schools actually teach it other than as a historical therapy. It has been discredited to some extent as a form of therapy. This happens often in psychology, that science seems obsessed with throwing out everything every ten years and going back to Pavlov and behavioral conditioning. It's pretty plain to see that the experiments that discredit nlp suffer from improper calibration and poorly designed tests. Not to mention that evaluating it as a clinical therapy is far different than evaluating it as a hypnosis framework. Its techniques are still used by law enforcement and intelligence agencies.

    As far as books or audio courses, I'm hesitant to recommend any specifics. Most of the information is freely available on the net if you google cleverly.

    Bandler and Grinder are the developers of NLP, based in large part on the Gestault Therapy techniques of Fritz Perls. A fundamental book that you can find in a library is The Structure of Magic I: A Book About Language and Therapy by Bandler and Grinder.

    Lots of people developed their own systems from their work, and lots of organizations sprung up to 'certify' people to be NLP therapists. View all of these with suspicion, for the proof IMO is in the pudding. All of the phases and most of the techniques can be found online.

    Another person whose work you should study if you have an interest in NLP is Milton Erickson. His hypnosis strategies and techniques are nothing short of amazing. His famous 'handshake induction' has to be seen (youtube) to be believed.

    Meta-programming is best learned through experience. It requires finesse and a light touch, combined with great calibration and an excellent mind map. If the light trance breaks, then it will almost certainly backfire. Basic meta-programs involve using the subject's preferred sense or senses to embed a suggestion. You can do this covertly with emphasis on certain words in a sentence that spells out a command... Though I believe this gives mixed results. I prefer to do it more overtly. Greater risk, but far more reliably effective.

    Use a storytelling induction where you emphasise the story through their preferred sense, and move your story from third to second person gradually. Then, if the trance holds, conversationally embed through that sense. Avoid contractions, they are less clear to someone in trance. "...when we were doing this, it made you realize it is like when you see these guys walk up to you like they know you and you see the way they look at you or sometimes you see that they do not even look because they think you are just so easy, it is so insulting and just makes you furious. That's how you feel, and that's how I felt then .." back into story mode about how being angry turned out to be a good thing. This has to be anchored with the Kino you want to discourage in a really exaggerated way, but gently so you don't rouse them from trance.

    Like I said in my earlier post, this has to be maintained, so you have to slip it into other stories/monologues on different occasions, very lightly and only when you are sure that trance is induced. Simple suggestion tests reveal this with either mirror tests (scratch your nose casually, see if she scratches hers) or simple commands to move an object, look down, look up, etc.

    Obviously this is a lot of work and it really has to be worth it to mess with meta-programs at all. In my book that's a HB 9 or 10 who I really want to stick around for awhile. Let's be honest here - they are rare. There are plenty of HB 9's and 10's out there but most of them are not good company.

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    Default Re: Has anyone studied covert hypnosis? - apparent great for the story aspe

    another great post, I find this topic so fascinating and do believe it is a secret form of hypnosis that does not get enough attention (from what I have read).

    I was wondering if you could share some stories when covert hypnosis worked for you, how you knew they were in a light trance, and what you gained from it (obvious leave personality details out like names, or just make up fake ones)

    And with success comes failure, has anyone every caught you putting them into a mild trance? and their reaction?

    Also when I was briefly reading on this topic, someone claimed that once they got someone in a light trance, they could actually send them into deeper state of hypnosis where what thoughts they want to give the person would stick for a longer period of time... Is there any truth to this?

    edit found these 2 video's, pretty cool if they actually work
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlj5L...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukg0QSl8y4I

  6. #6
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    Thumbs down Re: Has anyone studied covert hypnosis? - apparent great for the story aspe

    We go in and out of trances all the time. they're actually pretty common mnetal states. Folding laundry while listening to music, driving while thinking about something else, intently reading a book or watching a game ... These are all trance states. In many of these states, we are highly suggestable because our attention is focused elsewhere. Our critical mind is disengaged, and we tend to respond in habitual ways. These are light trances.

    Deep trances, like the classic stage hypnosis trances, are more like sleep. Your critical mind is suspended and your responses are often unconscious or feel like you are in a deep fog. The suggestions embedded in these states are more unconscious, and often use senses like sounds or smells as triggers - as these senses continue to operate while asleep.

    The light trances are more useful in seduction, IMO.

    Examples... It is ridiculously easy to get a number from a girl in a light trance state. The simple suggestion "but I would need your number" or just "what is your number?" will usually result in getting the number.

    Perhaps better examples are anchoring good feelings with specific Kino while talking about their dreams of the best place to live, or dropping a chick into trance while some AFC is trying to draw her out of a set or frame and setting up her resistances. If smell is her thing, embedding suggestions of bad smells is child's play.. "the smell is so bad you can tell wherfi it is coming from, you know only dirty people like him smell like that. But calibrate calibrate calibrate.

    Changing venues and going for Isolation can be done by evoking negative senses about a place that don't even exist. This can be done with every sense pretty easily.

    So there's countless ways to use this stuff.

    Caught? Oh yep this means the trance broke, and if she figures out you are "messing with her head" then you gt blown out quickly.

    This is why I recommend lots of practice calibrating and using the tools to read her state and then taking advantage of the extra knowledge to tune the regular pickup.


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