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Thread: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

  1. #11
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    To the poster: I agree with a lot of what you're saying, you clearly have confidence, which is what a lot of guys lack and why they end up here in the first place. My theory is that this is the main reason for why you have any success with women at all.. It's definitely not because you know the first thing about attraction. I don't think I like you very much, a couple reasons:

    A) If you were truly so anti-"pickup", you wouldn't have created your account and written a short story about how much we all suck, you would just continue your life of tip toeing through the tulips and farking every woman you meet, without even saying a word to them. We talk about something called "congruence" around here, and you are lacking it at the moment.

    B) A lot of what you're saying is simply wrong. Especially your views on attraction.

    "Pickup" is a very broad term. It wasn't always that way, but it's evolved a great deal in the past 10 years. I use very little routines or canned material, if any at all. I've never really had trouble with women though.. A lot of guys need to learn certain material and techniques to get the ball rolling and build confidence. "Pickup" is different for everyone. It's not about reading The Game and then going out and opening a 3 set.. It's far more about finding who are and being confident in yourself.

    As far as attracting women. I have looks to my advantage, but I can tell you right now that if it wasn't for my demeanour when interacting with women, I would get nowhere.. Doesn't matter if I look like Brad farking Pitt.

    Your punctuation is god awful by the way, use your spacebar. Women hate that.

    Thanks for posting.

  2. #12
    SolidT is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    Dude you came into the game borrowed techniques,sold out with women, it became a part of you and now you think your some don?.that was not really a question.take a seat somewhere.you stole what you knew from here.a guy i know always try to downplay these things but openly admits to using them.thats whack.

  3. #13
    Carter21 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    Quote Originally Posted by legitscumbag View Post
    Getting girls is as simple as this in a nutshell-

    Find the ones that are into you.Make a move on them.Ignore the rest.
    This in itself is a pickup technique. Its the one predominantly taught by TylerRSD, a well-renowned PUA. Walk up, talk. If she's into you, great, if she's not, move on. This is PUA.

    Your issue seems to be that you misunderstand the definition of pickup. Your post is moreso a criticism of plans and routines, rather than one of pickup artistry in general. Of course, this doesn't make the claims regarding the building of attraction any less wrong (as explained by others), but just understand what exactly it is your issue is with.

    Replace the word "pickup" with "Mystery Method" each time in the original post, and it will make some sense.

  4. #14
    Ra1d is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    Quote Originally Posted by legitscumbag View Post

    You can't "create" attraction
    See,you're implying that attraction is a choice,which is wrong,if it was this way we'd actually be falling in love from the first sight.

    Quote Originally Posted by legitscumbag View Post

    She is already attracted to you physically from the get go or she isn't.
    Are you implying that looks are everything ?

    Then why do you proceed with this

    Quote Originally Posted by legitscumbag View Post

    At that point just don't screw it up and you're in.
    ?

    Why would you screw up if according to you looks are everything ?Oh this is where the PUA community kicks in.

    To sum it up,you're wrong at least IMO.

    If you're attractive it's a bonus,but if you're too shy and don't have the balls to touch her,she'd rather be with another fat guy who does.

  5. #15
    T-Mal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    The "Straw Man" arguments he makes are ridiculous anyway.

    There is no "COOL" ugly 350 pound chick....
    She could be a "nice girl" but she's NOT gonna be "COOL"... that's why she's 350 pounds! She's an emotional eater.


    Besides, WE'RE MEN...
    Of course our initial thought & basis for attraction is whether or not we find her attractive. We're shallow creatures by nature.

    But his whole definition of PUA is stereotypical & just a biased opinion.

    While I WILL agree that there are "pickup artists" whose main goal is to bang as many women as he can; that's not what everyone learning social dynamics is all about.

    I personally don't believe that ALL athletes use performance enhancing drugs, because SOME of them do. You would probably beg to differ.

    I don't think all hip-hop artists are thugs, just because some of them are... but I'm sure you lump all of them into that category.

    I don't believe all dogs are mean, even though I've been bitten by a couple over the years. But I'm sure you've got it all figured out & "know for a fact" that all dogs ARE mean.
    Right?

    It's people like you who make me realize the following:

    The reason light travels faster than sound, is the same reason some people appear bright until you hear them talk.

    Case closed.
    End of lesson.



    .


    Need one on one private coaching? PM me for details.

  6. #16
    legitscumbag is offline Aspiring PUA Achievements:
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    I can see I hit a nerve.The truth hurts.

    Glad to see some people at least attempting to discuss this though instead of hurling a bunch of insults my way.

    I have already been banned by RSD nation (I called Tyler out for the dumbass that he is and they banned me)

    The cult leaders apparently feel the need to censor the truth since it hurts their bottom line.

    Just to let you all know I am not a "natural" and for years I too believed all the evolutionary psychology BS,the looks don't matter schtick,that game was everything,that I could get any girl,etc.To an almost fanatical degree.I would have been the guy who would've replied to me telling me I was stupid.After many years of "gaming" and picking up girls I finally figured out the truth from first hand experience.Game is useless.A girl is either attracted to you and open to fcking (did it really auto correct me to farking?) or she isn't.It's just that simple.Keep in mind I'm talking about getting laid here and nothing else.Seems that some people aren't (self improvement isn't the same as getting laid).

    The times you use game and succeed you would have succeeded anyways in less time with much more ease without game.

    Guess what girls like to fck too.You don't even need to convince them.Where did this absurd idea come from?You can only do what a girl already wants to do on some level.Do you guys even have any idea how easy it is to get laid?

    Quit making having sex into a ego trip and a bizarre exercise in mind control.

    @HardRock

    A hot girl exposing herself is only a turn on when she is physically attractive.She isn't "creating attraction" it's already there.Don't think that Rosie O Donnell could have the same effect bro.The girl can only turn us on even more when we already find her attractive in the first place.

    Attraction can be increased but it can't be created.You can rev a engine but it doesn't matter if you can't get it to start.

    @T-Mal

    Thanks for the sarcasm.

    The real douchebags are the guys like you who think they control women with "psychology".

    I never said self improvement was bad.And I actually think going to the gym is a good idea.Great way to increase your odds with girls.But what you are trying to get better at is something beyond your control.The sooner you accept that the better.

    How the hell do you know there aren't cool overweight girls?You sure are a d1ck aren't you.Could you be any more silly?There are plenty of cool overweight guys.

    Your a stereotypical pua because you buy into the concept that psychology is the key to attracting women.

    Case closed.



    @meteora

    Your personality only matters if they are already attracted in the first place.Do you have sex with fat girls who warm you up with their "wonderful personalities?".I hope not.

    I'm glad you at least include looks in your list.

    PUA actually makes guys alot more weird than they were when they started through the bizarre behavior it encourages.It definitely doesn't help them to learn to socialize.You can't socialize with people when you are trying to "be more alpha than them".

    Money can attract gold diggers.You can also pay beautiful escorts with it.What's your point?Doesn't change the fact that girls want to hook up with hot looking guys.Enjoy emptying your bank account for a girl who doesn't care about you.

    She'll probably be having sex with a scumbag on the side who's hotter,better in bed,and broke anyways.

    How do you figure that asking opinion openers or fake confidence give "survival value"?

    Not everything a woman does is motivated towards some evolutionary BS goal.Guess what girls like to screw hot guys just like you want to screw hot girls.Mind bender I know.

    Every guy already is a natural they just need to get out of their own way.

    @DirectIsBest

    Funny that you say that considering your username is "directisbest".I t's not that you can get your foot in the door easier,it's that the door is going to slam on that foot if she isn't attracted to you.But you should know that already being a guy who thinks looks don't matter and who supposedly does direct approaches .

    Confident,caring,str ong?Dude,when are you going to realize that sometimes girls just want to get laid?

    I don't see ugly guys with hot girls...what planet are you living on?

    I don't know who david x is but I doubt he has any good proof that he hooks up with legit hot women on the regular from cold approach.

    How you act is meaningless if there isn't already some physical attraction to begin with.

    @twentynine

    Hey bro.I have been plenty confident and had girls reject me.I've also gotten girls when I haven't been confident.How is this possible?

    They already liked me to begin with.Or didn't.

    I'm anti pickup not anti getting girls.There is a difference.Pickup is about impressing women wheter you get laid or not.Getting girls is about farking.

    They don't need any techniques.If you can socialize at work then you can get laid.You don't need interesting things to say because the girl isn't there to listen to you talk.Some basic small talk and conversation is more than enough.

    Going up to girls and doing things that aren't you (aka pickup routines) is only going to destroy a guys confidence not build it.That teaches you that women want the routines not you.

    Finding out who you are being confident in yourself is great but that alone is not going to get you hot girls.

    Oh really?How do you know?Have you ever tried picking up girls while being boring but aggressive?You might be surprised.

    I better learn how to type right if I want to get laid.Thanks for fixing my girl problems.

    @SolidT

    I don't use them anymore.I'll give you the same response I gave to a guy on another forum before they banned me:

    @TheMajikalMethod

    No I didn't forget.No I don't do them anymore.I don't try to be cocky and funny,alpha,have amazing body language,dhv,do text game,do opinon openers,kino,routine s,or any of that nonsense.They aren't something that just happens naturally either if that's what you are trying to suggest.It takes alot of effort to go out and be a dancing monkey for girls.I'd rather eat pussy than peanuts.

    @Carter21

    Tyler isn't about that at all.He is a dumb dumb who thinks that state is what attracts women and focuses most of his effort on getting into it.He says that looks don't matter.He knows they do but he just says that so that he can get nerds to pay him to go out and try to sleep with club girls.Guess being a manager at mcdonalds was beneath him.

    I define "pick up" as using artificial behaviors/tactics/routines/techniques to try and sleep with women.Although most PUA's don't even go that far and mostly just settle for approaches,phone numbers,and the occasional makeout.

    @Ra1d

    Attraction isn't a choice.But you misunderstand it as something that is based on your behavior rather than primarily your appearance.

    Looks are most of it.The rest is the ability to be normal and make a move.Yes,you can screw it up even if she is physically attracted by being weird or not making a move.For example say you are in a club and you isolate a girl.You are making out with her and she is into it.But instead of pulling her out of there right then and there you just keep kissing her forever and eventually she says "I have to go find my friends now".You screwed it up.There is such a thing as skill with women but it takes a backseat to looks and physical attraction.Your skill only comes into play when you have attraction to begin with and even then "skill" is not the kind of things you will read here.

    And lots of girls would rather not have sex than have it with a gross guy.Same with plenty of guys.

    Wake up PUA community.
    Last edited by KristiBell; 02-14-2014 at 07:11 AM. Reason: no links

  7. #17
    T-Mal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    Have I mentioned that I love trolls?


    Need one on one private coaching? PM me for details.

  8. #18
    JackSarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    Dear OP,

    You can't change the name of the Game, you can only make your mark on it. You may reject "The Pick Up Game" but you are still going to have to play "The Dating Game" and using natural game at least for me it is like beating your head against a brick wall. We used to be called "Players" but that term evolved to PUA's.

    Now to give you brass tax you can't really change our views since we are hear to improve our game and you provide a rather weak argument one of which I am not convinced. You have to convince me to take on a belief system and Pick Up has sufficiently convinced me. At first in my natural game I was playing the "Dating Game" through natural game approaches and it was pretty brutal. You still have to N-close, go on dates so resisting the art will not give you some greater form of artistry.

    In my first year of Pick Up I got my first date in 7 years (never could through normal means) got a cougar GF (again impossible through my own natural game mentality) and even dumped her though I could have gone for the long term lay however I lost interest. To me pick up is not about getting every lay I can it is scoring with the finest talent I can find that is the ice cold knockouts, the stone cold foxes, the game winners, dime pieces, high class females, etc. I never approached a dime piece before on my own and had a successful interaction that is until I entered pick up. Now I am on my way this year to bringing in my wing for round 2 of starting up for real on day game. This is impossible through my own efforts so I am very satisfied with the ideology of Pick Up Artists and am sticking around for a while!

    By the way he never told us if it was an HB6-10 he is running his natural game on right now. Sure man I could say the same thing. I got a girl at work who is so in love with me she asked me to the Bar twice, tells my friends to ask for her number, in spite of having a BF she wants me to move in (possibly marriage type situation) so despite what you say I could say the same thing as you. But the difference is "I don't settle" and you will have to running natural game. Your very post reeks of settling for some girl who fancies you. Sure that could work for any of us but we practice what we call "qualification" which is a Pick Up term so be prepared to settle the rest of your life. I on the other hand now become the hunter and as a real man pursue any woman I want. A natural gamer must settle since in his natural game mentality he will never have the confidence to go for the game winning shot on the finest chick in the place much less approach her.
    When you let go of your feelings you can really then embrace your surroundings
    Love is a game that's why I don't worry about it anymore. When you let go of your feelings you find your meaning.
    -Capn_Jack

  9. #19
    Kyl3's Avatar
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    I just wanted to let you know that you're ignorant and wrong.
    You're trying to prove a point, I get it, & honestly, I didn't even take the time to read your entire post, nor what anybody else had said here.

    Do to 'cognitive dissonance' (3 years of advanced placement psychology in high school actually made me learn shit, go figure.) you're trying to be congruent with your thoughts and actions. Just by being "yourself" you've been getting girls, & since you're not using "PUA" techniques in your mind, you believe it's all a sham. So you're trying to be congruent, & due to being insecure with your thoughts, you decided to voice them on an Internet forum that helps guys with below average social skills, become better versions of themselves, or improve there social dynamics.
    That in itself is lame, & makes me believe that you're a fucking liar, because guys who are any good at anything, or worth anything in life, don't take time out of there day to try and bash somebody else's beliefs, or try and bash somebody seeking advice on how to improve themselves.

    If you don't believe social dynamics or 'PUA' is real, you're an idiot, & I personally want to meet you so I can try to fark your girl.
    Social dynamics is real & you trying to argue that it's not is not logical. Disqualifiers, negs, dhv stories, qualifiers, how to blast through LMR, how to build a social circle, pre-selection, etc is all very real, & WORKS.

    If I neg a girl, it's going to make her feel like shit, & make her self conscious. If I run deep qualifiers on a girl, she's going to feel very important to me deep down. The shit works, & I do it all the time. It's not fake, these are real people with real emotions you can manipulate. It's sad, but you CAN build attraction from nothing. You can even go as far as saying you CAN create love.

    The routines we put together for the noobs work. You can even make routines that are so advanced that they account for just about any repose a girl can give you to give you the best chance possible. Is that fun? Probably not, I've never tried to do it, because at that point you might as well die, you just broke a human being down to science.

    No you can't get any and every girl. That's a foolish belief, & why would you want to anyways? That would be no fun, no challenge, BORING.
    I don't understand how you can argue that.

    I see ugly dudes with HOT girls are the time. It's because he knew how to evoke emotions in her. It's not the initial attraction.

    I'm not going to lie, I've been told countless times that I'm a pretty boy by girls I have in my life, or that I'm super cute, whatever. If you think it's all about looks though, you're wrong. It's about you act, & provoke emotion with people.

    I'm done ranting.

  10. #20
    Carter21 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: The pickup delusion.Open your eyes

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mal View Post
    Have I mentioned that I love trolls?
    I doubt he's trolling. I think LS honestly believes the words he's posting. Some of them are correct, some are debatable, some are clearly wrong, but he seems to be serious. This is actually a legitimate discussion to have - whether learning PUA material is worth the time, its just a shame that the OP has been so aggressive and condescending to (some of) the users defending it.

    @LS

    I will agree with you that looks matter, but we will disagree with the implications of what this phrase means. You most likely take "looks matter" to mean that if you're not hot, there is no way you can get in a relationship with a hot girl. My interpretation, on the other hand, is that its not impossible to sleep with a hot girl, but you do have to put significantly more work into the conversations to acheive your goal.

    Being able to date someone above your level of attractiveness is an empirically proven fact, although it is rare. I can't post links on this site, but there are a number of psychological studies showing that the people we date tend to be as attractive as we are. The key words these studies will use, though, are terms like "tend to", "generally", and "on balance". None of them will say that this trend is definite or absolute. Thats because they do find some instances where one person is attractive and the other isn't. So if you want to argue that looks matter 100%, give us some reasoning behind this. For the most part, its just been blindly asserted.

    TylerRSD does teach the importance of state and mindset, and I don't see how this can be disputed as an important tool. If your mindset is completely irrelevant as you suggest, then if I go approach 100 girls while being extremely nervous and scared and then approach 100 girls while being playful and confident, I will get the same results. If this is what you actually believe, then let me know and we can explain to you in depth why this isn't the case.

    I would not define pickup as artificial behaviors, routines, and techniques. Again, routines and techniques define the Mystery Method, a subset of PUA. PUA branches such as Direct Game and natural game do not rely on routines, nor are they artificial, as they teach you to be a fun and energetic person in general, not just around girls.

    One of your core messages is correct though, getting girls isn't something you need routines, plans, micromanagement of kino, and psychology tricks to get. You are more than capable of sleeping with girls without these things. However, just because you can get girls without them doesn't mean that the probability of succeeding with any individual girl is the same as it would be if you did apply some attraction-increasing techniques.

    For instance, Situation 1: I approach HB8 at the park, start a conversation. We talk for 15 minutes with me saying just whatever pops into my head. Then I ask for her number.

    Situation 2: I approach HB8 at the park, start a conversation. We talk for 15 minutes with me saying just whatever pops into my head, but I also find a way to work in some pre-planned dhv stories that not only reference me doing interesting and unique things, but are also hilarious and get her laughing. Then I ask for her number.

    Saying that my chances of getting her number are the exact same in both situations is not smart. So in addition to the true definition of what pickup artistry actually is, also understand that PUA is about increasing the probability of success. Even if you could get 10 numbers out of 100 approaches without PUA, its not a valid criticism if learning PUA could get that number up to 20+.


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