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Thread: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

  1. #1
    Lex S is offline PUA in Training
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    Default IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    As a rule I never pay attention to kind behavior from people who are in service industries and on the clock. If you go to a music store and it seems like a chick who works there is hitting on you because she's really nice and complimenting your taste in music, chances are she's just doing it because she's paid to do it, or she has some incentive to sell the album (This happened to a friend of mine, he fell head over heels after one meeting).

    There's a bar I go to maybe once every couple weeks which is one of my pickup spots. A couple months ago this cute bartender began working there. Living in NYC I'm used to people being less-than-kind, but this girl was very bubbly. I just assumed she was being nice for tips and never entertained the idea that she was into me. A few times we've talked about movies, and I found that if I made a good joke about a movie she'd usually give me a free drink. Again, just assuming she was doing her job.

    Then last night the friend who I always take with me told me he was picking up HEAVY ioi's from her. As soon as we walked in she saw us from across the bar and waved to us. A little while later we go outside for a smoke and the bartender came out a couple minutes later, also for a smoke. She comes up to us and points to me and goes "Let me remember....You're Lex, right?" She gave me her name for the first time and chatted a bit. I realized later on that I had never once given her my name before, and my friend said that while he was up at the bar alone she asked him for my name, saying she saw me there all the time. Later on when I got a drink from her she knew my "usual" drink, and gave me a high five saying it was nice to finally know my name. The bar got busier and I didn't see her for most of the night after that, until the end when I was walking one way and she was walking the other, and she grabbed my arm and squeezed it a couple times quickly.

    My friend is convinced she's into me, but I'm still under the impression that she's just being nice because that's her job. He said that in defense of his observations, she's not as chatty or nice to him as she is to me, and he said she pays a lot more attention to me than anyone else when taking my order. I never noticed this, but it did get me thinking. She's cute and I'd definitely hit it.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Yes they are flirty because it's their job. It's no secret that this ploy is used my management to attract men to keep coming back ~ have a beer, have a laugh and look at pretty girls who make you feel 'special'.

    That said, if you want to tune her you may have to distance yourself from being seen as a customer. Get her number and flirt casually first to gather more intel on her. You could find out a lot by that, for example; does she keep asking you when you are coming back to the bar to see her? She should want to see you irrelevant of the bar.

    Try avoid talking about her with other bargirls because in my experience they all gossip and there is sometimes competition between them.

    Some of the bars I go to, certain girls like me more than my friends, they are incredibly touchy feely, but I'm still wary 1. because bargirls hours suck, 2. They have so much attention from other guys and 3. because I like that bar and don't want my fun there compromised. I like walking in where they all know me, say hello, flirt a bit, grab my arm or hug me and often I get free drinks or they come and drink with us at our table for a while. If I liked a girl at a bar I rarely or never visit I would be far more keen because I'm not a frequent customer. There's nothing to loose really and I'm the mysterious 'outsider'.

    A lot of bar girls I know get lots of attention but are actually lonely because they can't meet a decent/sober guy and their hours suck. They then form a sheild around themselves - which is the barlife, culture and attention from many men. You could potentially mine that vein of insecurity. I also know a few bargirls that are married or in long term relationships but act like they're single because they make more money that way. A few bargirls I know even regularly date guys simply to get free meals and drinks. They are always being hit on so they take advantage of it, yet rarely do I know they have a proper boyfriend.

    My advice would be to hit her up sooner than later. If you can gather some good intel on her it may help form a strategy. She might like a guy who knows everyone at the bar and is the life of a party or she might like a guy who ignores her and treats her just as a barmaid because every other drunk guy is already lechering onto her. Or is she working part time to fuel her study and pocket money, is she a dead end girl and working at a bar is as good as it gets or is she a wild party animal who needs constant attention, alcohol freebies and nightlife action to boost her self esteem etc.

  3. #3
    JackSarge's Avatar
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Aww the good old fashioned "bartender" thread lol. I have extensive experience in this area so here goes...

    The Lowdown
    No you cannot game them simply put don't do it and here's why.

    HB9 Bartender "Snow White"
    I got instant Oneitis for this one. Was in love with her for 8 months. Gamed her hard with dhv's, Jealousy Plotlines, and so forth. 2-4 months in she breaks out the BF card, likely because I acted needy and asked "are you seeing anyone?" I know totally low value but I was just starting out on Year 1 of Pick Up. So she goes "yes he's the DJ and I approached him." They are still together to this day. She friend zoned me though. I lost feelings for her however we still are on good terms. She gets me in free, gets me free drinks, and is a good warm up/social proof. I still talk to her for those reasons. She gets my night going as she will likely see my game sky rocket this year. She flirts, calls me baby and throws me the sexy eyes still so I know now it means nothing. Me and her BF are good friends. I call her Snow White cuz she acted cold like she had no BF then breaks it to me way later.

    HB9 Bartender "Pochantes"
    I used my social proof with Snow White as I never had the courage to N-close her and just lost interest so never N-closed her. So as soon as the new girl showed up I used my social proof to game her. "Hey" I told her "I know you are new cuz I know all the Bartenders here" that was my opener and she flirted hardcore. Pinched my nipples, said she would get me in free, then gave up her number the second time I saw her. Saw her giving her number out and flirting with guys a lot. BF stole her phone and started going psycho on me. So she played me hard. I never talk to her anymore, just ignore her cuz her BF is a farking needy AFC and will beat me up if I ever talk to her again. I call her Pochantes cuz she ratted me out to her BF, said not to text till next morning (said her phone was stolen which was a fabrication) to set me up when her BF was at her house so she could tell him I was creeping her out though she showed heavy IOI's. So she ran for the hills and played me like a hunter trying to steal the bride to be.

    HB9 Cocktail Waitress "Sleeping Beauty"
    The other two were not involved with this one since she is a VIP bottle service girl. This was kind of a shock. When I first saw her I thought dang I would bang that in a heartbeat. Started slowly gaming her like any Hired Gun. First talked her and asked for her number she said "maybe we'll run into each other". I was like no way in hell thinking it was lost. Then started talking to her outside in the smoking area as she had a "spot". Go over one night (not gaming her) and thought "fark yeah!" This energy translated so well she started vibing with me. Opened her with a kino side hug and a lowball opener (how's your night ) as I said not gaming her so no need for a classy opener. She started getting personal with me. Again I was not trying. Has a fake rack too man I blew it big time.

    So we are sitting there shooting the breeze and she breaks out the hookup card. She says to me "hey what are you doing later?" I farked it up and said going to the bar not realizing she was hitting on me for a hookup. Then she goes "will I see you next weekend love?" I flirted for the first time and made a face to which she giggled and starts calling me love, love. Further proving she wanted me in that moment. I drunk FB messaged her that night I was ready to meet and she admitted her guilt the next morning denying anything ever happened. I know the signs of the proof of her guilt since she said she would be there next week and wasn't and instead went on vacation with her BF. She wanted me but I screwed it up so she ran back to the BF after her failed f-close on me.

    So in the end there is no way to game them but I will try again with Sleeping Beauty this year. They all work in the same spot and as you can see some of the flirting was real and some fake. So you use the Hired Guns to have Social Proof, DHV by getting in free to Clubs/free drinks, but in the end you cannot really game them as they mostly always have BF's and lie about it or hide it. Screw up and out comes the savior BF. But be the cool guy and they might just try to hookup with you. More to be discovered this year if I can bag the Cocktail Waitress. These are Club Hired Guns as the Bartenders at the Bars don't appeal to me since they flirt with the staff which turns me off. So yes you can game them but as you can see it's very hard to pull off as they are mostly unavailable. But it can be done through becoming a regular, gaming other women for DHV and no Oneitis, jealousy Plotlines, good engagement, slowly but surely it should work on a few but don't hold your breath as I have better luck on the local talent in the Clubs and Bars than the staff that serves them.
    When you let go of your feelings you can really then embrace your surroundings
    Love is a game that's why I don't worry about it anymore. When you let go of your feelings you find your meaning.
    -Capn_Jack

  4. #4
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Quote Originally Posted by JackSarge View Post
    Aww the good old fashioned "bartender" thread lol. I have extensive experience in this area so here goes...

    The Lowdown
    No you cannot game them simply put don't do it and here's why.

    HB9 Bartender "Snow White"
    I got instant Oneitis for this one. Was in love with her for 8 months. Gamed her hard with dhv's, Jealousy Plotlines, and so forth. 2-4 months in she breaks out the BF card, likely because I acted needy and asked "are you seeing anyone?" I know totally low value but I was just starting out on Year 1 of Pick Up. So she goes "yes he's the DJ and I approached him." They are still together to this day. She friend zoned me though. I lost feelings for her however we still are on good terms. She gets me in free, gets me free drinks, and is a good warm up/social proof. I still talk to her for those reasons. She gets my night going as she will likely see my game sky rocket this year. She flirts, calls me baby and throws me the sexy eyes still so I know now it means nothing. Me and her BF are good friends. I call her Snow White cuz she acted cold like she had no BF then breaks it to me way later.

    HB9 Bartender "Pochantes"
    I used my social proof with Snow White as I never had the courage to N-close her and just lost interest so never N-closed her. So as soon as the new girl showed up I used my social proof to game her. "Hey" I told her "I know you are new cuz I know all the Bartenders here" that was my opener and she flirted hardcore. Pinched my nipples, said she would get me in free, then gave up her number the second time I saw her. Saw her giving her number out and flirting with guys a lot. BF stole her phone and started going psycho on me. So she played me hard. I never talk to her anymore, just ignore her cuz her BF is a farking needy AFC and will beat me up if I ever talk to her again. I call her Pochantes cuz she ratted me out to her BF, said not to text till next morning (said her phone was stolen which was a fabrication) to set me up when her BF was at her house so she could tell him I was creeping her out though she showed heavy IOI's. So she ran for the hills and played me like a hunter trying to steal the bride to be.

    HB9 Cocktail Waitress "Sleeping Beauty"
    The other two were not involved with this one since she is a VIP bottle service girl. This was kind of a shock. When I first saw her I thought dang I would bang that in a heartbeat. Started slowly gaming her like any Hired Gun. First talked her and asked for her number she said "maybe we'll run into each other". I was like no way in hell thinking it was lost. Then started talking to her outside in the smoking area as she had a "spot". Go over one night (not gaming her) and thought "fark yeah!" This energy translated so well she started vibing with me. Opened her with a kino side hug and a lowball opener (how's your night ) as I said not gaming her so no need for a classy opener. She started getting personal with me. Again I was not trying. Has a fake rack too man I blew it big time.

    So we are sitting there shooting the breeze and she breaks out the hookup card. She says to me "hey what are you doing later?" I farked it up and said going to the bar not realizing she was hitting on me for a hookup. Then she goes "will I see you next weekend love?" I flirted for the first time and made a face to which she giggled and starts calling me love, love. Further proving she wanted me in that moment. I drunk FB messaged her that night I was ready to meet and she admitted her guilt the next morning denying anything ever happened. I know the signs of the proof of her guilt since she said she would be there next week and wasn't and instead went on vacation with her BF. She wanted me but I screwed it up so she ran back to the BF after her failed f-close on me.

    So in the end there is no way to game them but I will try again with Sleeping Beauty this year. They all work in the same spot and as you can see some of the flirting was real and some fake. So you use the Hired Guns to have Social Proof, DHV by getting in free to Clubs/free drinks, but in the end you cannot really game them as they mostly always have BF's and lie about it or hide it. Screw up and out comes the savior BF. But be the cool guy and they might just try to hookup with you. More to be discovered this year if I can bag the Cocktail Waitress. These are Club Hired Guns as the Bartenders at the Bars don't appeal to me since they flirt with the staff which turns me off. So yes you can game them but as you can see it's very hard to pull off as they are mostly unavailable. But it can be done through becoming a regular, gaming other women for DHV and no Oneitis, jealousy Plotlines, good engagement, slowly but surely it should work on a few but don't hold your breath as I have better luck on the local talent in the Clubs and Bars than the staff that serves them.
    Ahhh yes Disneyland...

    At my local I have never asked any of the bargirls out. I have a good rapport with all of them and like the dynamic that I can walk in there and be treated well as a customer. My drinking buddy however has progressively tried to flirt with all of them and always failed. It's the same story each time. 'I think she likes me?!'. Then he gets her number and either she rejects his moves eventually, he finds out she is attached or he ends up back at the bar late one night having had too many drinks and says something stupid. The girls are more friendly to me, always come to me first and call me by my first name and my friend is left with a bitterness about several girls. He is successful outside of the bar...yet no matter how many times I tell him not to bother he still tries and fails. Every new bargirl it's groundhog day for him. 'Oh she's really cool, cute too! I think she likes me!!'. A week later 'Ahh she's a b*#ch, I don't like her anymore' (and she ignores him too, I know what happened). Additionally all the bargirls gossip about his 'bad' flirtations lowering his value at the bar overall. I just can't be bothered.

    Bargirls are not impossible if you find the right one in the right context but most of the time they are not worth the hassle because of their hours or situation and to be honest often they can be rather boring outside of the pub.

    I think it's better to have a scenario where the girls and management know you and trust you. That can come in handy when tuning normal (non staff) girls who come into the bar too.

    Perhaps, as a wildcard, all this could actually be used against a bargirl...use everything Sarge and I have said above to disqualify her as a potential interest and make yourself unobtainable. 'Thanks for the extra drink and kind words, you're cute (treat her like a little sister or kid - the way you say it is playful and rhetorical enough not to be a risk yet might push her to prove herself or reveal valuable intel), but ya know I could never date a bargirl haha'. See how she responds. Every other guy wants her and you are the guy who says, for very good reasons, why you won't.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Love it Whitedragon. It's about getting good service and building social proof for yourself to not look like a barfly or club rat creeper. Social Proof makes you instantly more attractive (saw my buddy whose a promoter get grabbed by a 10 and forcefully thrown into the Set I wanted but he's not a PUA). He had an entourage and very high value so that explains a lot why she noticed him and not me. Maybe why the staff, DJ's, and Promoters have better chances with the Hired Guns than us bystanders. They do give their number out but it is a difficult game to play. If they hit on me then I know when to make a move but just be friendly to them for your free drinks, social proof, and so forth. This explains why I gave up on it as in not "counting on it" but will try if an opportunity presents itself like it did with Sleeping Beauty.
    When you let go of your feelings you can really then embrace your surroundings
    Love is a game that's why I don't worry about it anymore. When you let go of your feelings you find your meaning.
    -Capn_Jack

  6. #6
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Quote Originally Posted by JackSarge View Post
    Love it Whitedragon. It's about getting good service and building social proof for yourself to not look like a barfly or club rat creeper. Social Proof makes you instantly more attractive (saw my buddy whose a promoter get grabbed by a 10 and forcefully thrown into the Set I wanted but he's not a PUA). He had an entourage and very high value so that explains a lot why she noticed him and not me. Maybe why the staff, DJ's, and Promoters have better chances with the Hired Guns than us bystanders. They do give their number out but it is a difficult game to play. If they hit on me then I know when to make a move but just be friendly to them for your free drinks, social proof, and so forth. This explains why I gave up on it as in not "counting on it" but will try if an opportunity presents itself like it did with Sleeping Beauty.
    I tell you sarge, last summer my band played all these amazing bikini parties, mostly for game developers. Big money, lamboghinis parked outside, hundreds of 'showgirls', the whole works. Even playing in a band and being lead singer/lead guitarist it was virtually impossible to close with any girl to fruition, whether they were hot professionals or plain Janes looking for pocket money. Got plenty of numbers at these events but so difficult to move forward in any meaningful way. Everyone becomes a trophy...an object...decor. Even the rich guys didn't score. It was fools gold. Being part of the entourage, organisers or back stage does give you extra credit, however the game costs more and it's rigged. Bars and the role of bargirls are similar to events and showgirls.

    I have more success getting the girls next door off the street on a rainy monday night and they're often just as hot if not more so because they're not dolled up yet. As soon as someone is elevated in position they change and become a 'position', a static object with a, usually profitable, service (bar girls). It's also no secret in the rock n roll circuit that many bands management pay for girls to service the band. It's not all innocent local hometown groupies coming back stage betraying their boyfriends... they are often paid service. Bar girls are not far removed from this are they?...no not like a real prostitute but money is the object of desire and their,duty in work. Bars these days are poker machines with doors and toilets. Look but you can't touch sort of thing. Even if you treat a girl without any ekevated status, it's their job to do so anyway.

  7. #7
    Lex S is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Thanks for the advice, guys. I have a pretty cool set up at this bar. There's a velvet rope and bouncers outside and a lot of times they give people hassles when they try and get in and many times turn people away. But when I walk up to the door they just let me cut the line. I used to see the manager there a lot, and he even told the bouncers that when they see me to just let me through. If I saw him at the bar he'd sometimes buy me a beer or a shot. One time he had a giant glass filled with bourbon that he didn't want anymore and just handed to me.

    I like the idea of getting in good with this bartender girl for social proof. If I outright hit on her it could lower my value, especially if she rejects me. But by carrying on as normal I can keep my dignity. If I bring a girl up to the bar and she sees the bartender knows me, that's a plus. And if the bartender sees me with a good looking girl, that's also a plus. As JackSarge said, in the context of bars the people with the highest value are the owners, bartenders, DJs, and promoters. Get in good with them and it raises your social proof. In a drinking establishment there's nothing that shows power like staff that will go out of their way to serve you, as opposed to being the guy standing at the bar for 10 minutes waving money around while he's ignored and the staff serves everyone else.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    First, you will get even more social proof if you bang her. If you don't, things will pretty much stay the same.
    Second, you can't take any IOIs for real. Personally, I don't believe in ioi's. Most are just a version of "It would be nice if you started talking to me."
    A few are "Hey, please kiss me"
    And if I'm looking for the "Please fuck me now IOI," I'm going to wait for a long long time.
    I choose to throw caution to the wind and take the chances and fix things after. At least she'll know I've got balls.
    The Official Tinder Playbook--> http://conquerdatingapps.co m <--Stop swiping, start hooking up

  9. #9
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Well said cdharders. Some guys on Instagram are too stuck in their head about game not calling it game and thinking you are worthy without having game to get the girl. They think your game will run out and be a complete shock to her. This is why you should never be above the process of game. Respect the game and respect the instructors. Not saying you need to be on board 100% as you need creativity and improvisation somewhere down the road. But for now understand IOI's are good tools I use quite often. If they didn't work I wouldn't use them but yes cdharders I get what you are saying the aspiring PUA needs to stop making the IOI's his compass and totally draw state from within and regardless of compliance or non-compliance able to game the Set like normal. The IOI's shouldn't be the end all. These are how you ping test girls. Now granted there are possibly fake IOI's but don't focus on that.

    Focus on where your IOI's lead you. In this artist's pursuit of the Bartender all we are saying is Bartenders as they are Hired Guns need to be played differently than regular Night Game targets. For Hired Guns you need to bring out the big guns, flirt as much as you can, social proof as much, be seen with beautiful women as much as you can (Jealousy Plotlines), dhv as much as you can by making out with chicks in front of them or something. We need to rely on IOI's because they are steps on the path to closing a Set. I never close a set without an IOI merely by my own intuition. This has generated reduced frustration and raised my value so yes reading IOI's as part of your emotional circuitry (as MM would say) are vital to your game as a Pick Up ARTIST. You are not above the game even gurus that get into that arrogant thinking make no sense so I only practice the important stuff and if they are totally arrogant then I choose to ignore what they teach.
    When you let go of your feelings you can really then embrace your surroundings
    Love is a game that's why I don't worry about it anymore. When you let go of your feelings you find your meaning.
    -Capn_Jack

  10. #10
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    Default Re: IOI's from a bartender - Can't tell if they're genuine

    Fair enough. I ignore IOIs because everything I do is compliance testing. Every single move she makes and word she says is telling me whether the set is moving closer or further from the bedroom. The only IOIs I care about are the milestones that shift the interaction, which are the kiss and her allowing me to finger her, which is the indicator I can sleep with her. Is that too graphic?
    The Official Tinder Playbook--> http://conquerdatingapps.co m <--Stop swiping, start hooking up


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