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  1. #1
    Instinct Guest

    Default Bill, Theory advice.

    Hey brother,
    I wanna hear what you think about this situation. I often run into a situation, where a girl is tired or low energy. I tried a method of just present value value value until she is trying to prove herself, but it sets a crap frame. (I got this from Mehow)

    So it would be like this

    Pua: Hey whats up!
    HB: uhh I dunno!
    Pua: I am so fantastic I just sold my company and I am totally, happily living like a rock star!
    HB: oh ok
    Pua: Now days, I just sit and paint like, ed hardy, or tatoo art, or comic book art on guitars and sell them at pawn shops! My goal is to see a real rock star with one!
    Hb: Oh ok
    Pua: You are so boring! Check this out, last week we were skiing on my friends boat, actually it was my boat, but he bought, those things are way to much work! Good Riddance, but I swear to god, while we were skiing I saw a shark! It was crazy!
    Hb: Yea.
    Pua: If you see a shark, you have to punch him the nose!

    This had like a 25% success rate. Awful.

    So I tried the

    Pua: Uh hello! Your energy is right here (show her with my hand, chest level), now little girl, I need you to bring it up to about here (hand over head).

    This had like 50% success rate, but was consistent with that.

    So we have been playing with this, I call it the ping-pong-drop
    Basically, you say something high emotional value, she reacts low energy, and you ignore her.

    Pua: I can so see you surfing on a moon lake! (ping)
    HB: I wouldnt do that.. (pong)
    Pua: what...oh ok (drop)

    and then it goes like this, hopefully.

    HB: Hey! did you hear me!
    Pua: Oh my god! Are you yelling at me! Come here you little rebel! Nobody talks to me like that, I like you!

    This had a much higher success rate, but we started adding "the vaccuum" on the "what..oh ok"
    and it raised it even more, we have only done this on two nights, searching for these girls for about an hour per night, it had, maybe an 80% success rate. But 80% isn't good enough, and it doesnt feel completely solid, because they sometimes just wont bite.

    It easier in a bigger set, cause you can just vibe off the high energy people, until her energy raises up to us, but in a 1 set or 2 set, you can have no high energy people. (with wing its much easier)

    What is your method for dealing with low energy girls?
    Last edited by Instinct; 02-25-2010 at 04:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Bill Preston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill, Theory advice.

    I have to say that many times, low energy girls are just not worth your time. If people are OUT to have fun and they are not having fun - then maybe they are not worth it for you. I mean, would you want that type of person in your life long term or even short term. Frankly, people with low energy almost seem to sap energy from others and are just a drag to be around.

    If I tried to bring energy and she still wasn't responding - I would probably disqualify her and move on. But maybe I don't have any tolerance for low energy girls... seems like they are just too much work.

    I remember my friend Nick (different situation) came up and I was being forced to talk to this really strange girl (not in a good way and it's a long story but it was at an event and we were somewhat paid to be there so we had to bring energy and fun to a group - ANYWAYS)... this girl was such a downer that mid sentence while she was talking he just turned around and walked away from her. I felt kind of bad for her, but at the same time she brought it on.

    Now what is the point?

    You should be able to reach a point where if the people you are engaged with don't return the value - you are very comfortable moving on, knowing that there are many many other people (guys and girls) who are much more fun to hang out and vibe with.

    So... I guess my method is I try to engage them and if they stay meh, I find someone more fun.

    One counterpoint to this is a pretty cute girl who I met at a cool Irish Bar called Slainte (NOHO/East Village if your from NYC) and she had pretty low energy cause her boyfriend just broke up with her the day before (funny story as I had just got done playing VB and was in my gym clothes and kinda sweaty while she was in a nice dress).

    She was not flirty, not interested and not fun. But I kept talking to her and eventually got her energy up and after it was up, I was able to flirt much more and escalate. Turns out we nearly had sex in one of the booths out of the bartenders view (she wanted it but I wasn't carrying protection).

    So, you CAN change a girls state if you are willing to work at it - but to be honest, it usually isn't worth it.

    BP

  3. #3
    Thundercat Guest

    Default Re: Bill, Theory advice.

    Actually, I can already point out to you a big mistake you're making with this...

    One thing guys will do that is sure to not work is to try and entice a low-energy girl by being higher energy. However, when you come in super-high energy (and even when you call her on being low energy), you're not doing anything to change what she's feeling, because she can't identify with you from her level of excitement/interests/whatever.

    In order to raise her energy, you must first establish rapport. And in order to do that, you need to drop to her energy level, and then slowly ramp it up and bring her along with you.

    So if you go to a girl and are like "Hey, you look as bored as I feel. Did your friends drag you out too?" you'll create a connection because you're showing her that you're currently at her level. And as you continue the conversation, you can find things that interest her and begin to get excited while talking, and watch her brighten up as well.

    An example: Onetime I was at a party at the Playboy mansion (not bragging, this really is the best example I can think of atm), and there were tons of girls there doing crazy stuff. Eventually, I ran into this pretty attractive girl in a yellow dress, standing by herself with a big ol' frown on her face.

    Now I was having fun and stuff, but I walked up to her, shoulders slouched, not smiling, and said "Hey." When she responded in kind, I said something like "You'd think the Playboy Mansion would be more fun, huh?" At that point, she started talking about how all the girls were sluts and she couldn't believe how they were acting, blah, blah, blah.

    So I just nodded and agreed with her and started chit-chatting about her and her life, and eventually found out she was passionate about hairdressing, and joked with her about what she could do for me (I'm bald, btw). And before long, she was smiling, laughing, and having a good time. I ended up getting her number, along with "You're the only normal guy here. Everyone else is just sleazy" compliment.

    Had I come in and been like "WOOOO! Playboy mansion! You're supposed to be having fun!" she would have blown me off.

    It's always important to calibrate your approach to where the woman is currently at. Not where you are at.

    Hope that helps,

    Thundercat

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bill, Theory advice.

    @Thundercat: Well the problem with your approach, is that you have to invest a lot of time to get to this girl when she is in a particularly unresponsive state of mind. I think what Instinct is trying to do is develop a quick way to try to bring the woman around, or determine that she is not worth the effort. In all comes down to a bit of a numbers game. Sure you could spend a fair amount of time on the girl, and likely get her hooked, but if you can't you just wasted all that time on something that didn't pan out.

    @Instinct: Have you tried saying the drop with a very strong look of disapproval or disdain? If you say it like, "Oh I see you are just boring." She might be fine with that. She is feeling bored and low energy and really doesn't care if you think she is boring or not (as evidenced by her response). If you drop her, but make it look like you misunderstood her, and what you thought she said was somehow very off-putting, she will feel the need to correct your perception. I don't know if this will raise your success or not I haven't tried it yet.

  5. #5
    Instinct Guest

    Default Re: Bill, Theory advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnglory View Post
    @Thundercat: Well the problem with your approach, is that you have to invest a lot of time to get to this girl when she is in a particularly unresponsive state of mind. I think what Instinct is trying to do is develop a quick way to try to bring the woman around, or determine that she is not worth the effort. In all comes down to a bit of a numbers game. Sure you could spend a fair amount of time on the girl, and likely get her hooked, but if you can't you just wasted all that time on something that didn't pan out.

    @Instinct: Have you tried saying the drop with a very strong look of disapproval or disdain? If you say it like, "Oh I see you are just boring." She might be fine with that. She is feeling bored and low energy and really doesn't care if you think she is boring or not (as evidenced by her response). If you drop her, but make it look like you misunderstood her, and what you thought she said was somehow very off-putting, she will feel the need to correct your perception. I don't know if this will raise your success or not I haven't tried it yet.
    I dunno, I have 3 scenarios that pan out in my head, one, goes like you said, golden (needs a reward right after), 2, she thinks whatever, and ignore you ( ughh!) and 3 she actually get confrontational (which actually isnt that bad, if you come back at her everytime unaffected, harder, and funny, you can get in there and make the set very awake and full of energy....infact, maybe you should just attack her! -kidding!- )

    BTW, for the new guys, a Pivot makes dealing with these girls much easier, and once you get good, you will always be travelling with lots of women that you can pawn off or pivot.

  6. #6
    gunsnglory is offline Official PUA Forums Moderator
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    Default Re: Bill, Theory advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Instinct View Post
    I dunno, I have 3 scenarios that pan out in my head, one, goes like you said, golden (needs a reward right after), 2, she thinks whatever, and ignore you ( ughh!) and 3 she actually get confrontational (which actually isnt that bad, if you come back at her everytime unaffected, harder, and funny, you can get in there and make the set very awake and full of energy....infact, maybe you should just attack her! -kidding!- )

    BTW, for the new guys, a Pivot makes dealing with these girls much easier, and once you get good, you will always be travelling with lots of women that you can pawn off or pivot.

    Well as I see it, two of the scenarios are just fine. If she gets confrontational, then you just act like you did misunderstand her and laugh it off as a big joke.

    If she still doesn't bite, I don't think there is much you can do about it, unless you either want to bring in a pivot, take the long road that Thundercat mentioned, or get to her through a friend. Sometimes they just want to be left alone.


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