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  1. #1
    Knochig is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Navigating as a Young Swinger (who looks older than he is)

    I'm in my mid-20's and my wife is a couple years younger than me and we're both swingers. I'm great with women when I'm in the right mindset, but having PTSD and OCD makes state control extremely difficult to manage. I look 10 years older than I am because of extremely rugged features and a worn out face from my time of unusual experiences.

    I got into PU before swinging, not because I was cheating, but so that I could indirectly attract flirtation from other women to bolster my bottomless ego, so Indirect Game was always my focus. I vary a lot, but in certain scenarios, I was able to toy men who would be competing for a particular woman's attention in class, even gaining a stalker who was hot who showered me with compliments. My wife knew about this and was supportive

    My indirect game got better at first after swinging before getting worse after a swinger event that smashed my ego. It was a takeover with hotel rooms and a dance floor where couples paired off with 1-3 other couples throughout the night and there were some VIP orgies. I went to this event and tried my usual indirect and subtle seduction methods, but it was almost like the natural laws had changed and just didn't register to any of the women there. Any subtlety, framing, dhv, etc. in a hyper-sexualized environment was white noise. I even tried kino on one woman, which usually warms vanilla women up easily in daygame, to which she didn't even seem to notice, so I attempted to be less subtle by rubbing my hand on her back, but just came off as grabby and creepy. This woman was about an 8.5 or so, looked to be in her mid-20's and was later grinding on this older chubby guy after blowing me out. This also wasn't helping my state as I became extremely panicked and started having worse body language. I also have very intense features as my body defaults to "fight" mode when I'm anxious. That night I watched the dance floor get more and more empty and ended up crying in my wife's lap, who then lectured me that I need better distress tolerance and was actually mad at me for having a panic attack and told me how much affected everything in my life and that I shouldn't care so much about what women think of me.

    On the opposite end, there was a pool party event that was more free-for-all, and every individual person had sex with maybe 1-2 and sometimes 3 other people at the party. I have sex with 6 women at that party, granted one of was a little old looking for my taste, but caught me when I was very horny and was in between sessions with someone else. Weirdly, I had completely ignored all PU knowledge and was able to let things just happen. Something that I can rarely reproduce in myself. I've accidentally attracted a lot of women when in a good state (Maybe I should start a state control thread? I actually read a good article about it recently on GirlsChase).

    Weirdly, women in the "lifestyle," as it's called, sometimes will violently make out with me, or do something aggressive without giving any ioi's and seem cold toward me. They will even tell me how sexy I am during sex. Other times women will give IOI's but have no interest and seem to flirt out of politeness while trying to steer away.

    It's possible that these changes might be because the social structure is so drastically different from the vanilla world that conventional PU doesn't have the same impact. Women are encouraged to act sexual; however, they have a lot of power and pull the strings of almost everything. Men sometimes manage financial and business elements at events, but it's primarily matriarchal.

  2. #2
    D1v1ou$$'s Avatar
    D1v1ou$$ is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Navigating as a Young Swinger (who looks older than he is)

    I advise you separate the pua way of life from the hypersexualized lifestyle, I've dabbled a bit and it's too erratic to try and guide or attract someone in an event where everyone is essentially one track minded. I've been to these types of parties before and try hards, and those with too high expectations, usually end up alone. I've also been on both sides of the fence and found the natural progression from "intro" to final "invite" worked better when it was organic and not scripted, it also helps if your wing (wife perhaps) compliments you in a way that attracts those couples and singles as I've also learned if you and your partner appear to have separate agendas it's very easy to spot and drive people away, hope this helps.
    You can't miss something you've never had, but I can be sure she will regret her opportunity...

    Better known as Debauchivalrious...

  3. #3
    Knochig is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Navigating as a Young Swinger (who looks older than he is)

    Funny enough, we always have the same agenda, but she wants to present us in a humble light, whereas I like to present us in the light that other people like to fuck us regularly (which isn't untrue, we just suck at events sometimes), but she finds my framing techniques to be very arrogant. Part of what got me to agree to swinging was that I got this hot 19-year-old to stalk me on campus whenever I walked out to my car. I kept her around for flattery (as you can expect from the OP), but eventually, when swinging came up, I got the 19-year-old to agree to give us lapdances (My wife was turned off by her teenager-esque behavior though). I also tell this story whenever we talk about how we got in, but my wife is tired of hearing and has even interrupted me with stuff "Okay, I've heard this too many times" while keeping a forced smile and embarassing me. And she humbles us too much, saying and texting things that implied that we didn't swap with anyone at a particular party, in effect demonstrating lower value and anti preselection. Not to be political, but if hyperconfidence edging on arrogance in social framing wasn't effective, Donald Trump wouldn't have been elected, and he uses tactics that I'm familiar with.


    My wife and I love the lifestyle, but we both have social anxiety for different reasons and disagree with how to present ourselves. She's even dragged me away on my way to approach really hot couples that's she's been intimidated by. Luckily she was too late to do that with one of our regular, and extremely attractive, couples and is good friends and a confidant with the female half. We work so well together in other facets of life, but when it comes to dating, we're two left feet (not that she doesn't try; she really does try her best). It's also hard to tell when I should let her have more or less influence because on a good day, I can get laid like crazy when approaching on my own, but other days I come off as an intense creep that scares people.


    Weirdly, she also turned off my former stalker, by being too direct, when the said stalker saw a text from her suggesting that I have a "quickie" with "blondie" (the nickname we gave her), while leaning on me and reading my texts.


    I do, however, think that even if things like dhv are effective, it probably bothers the male halves; unicorns seemed less bothered by it and will giggle more if I'm being cocky.


    And yes, how we navigate the lifestyle has been all of our arguments lately. : /

  4. #4
    D1v1ou$$'s Avatar
    D1v1ou$$ is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Navigating as a Young Swinger (who looks older than he is)

    I see. I let my wife take the lead a few times and that's changed our dynamic a bit because i too was the flirtatious one and attracted the female halves of most couples where she wasn't attracted to the male. What I did was take a step back and let her drive the attraction, last party we attended, she hand selected the women and invited them to our room where she did her thing and i finished them off, this way she got what she wanted and we didn't butt heads so much. She got completely over her own social anxiety and encouraged me to go for what I want as she got more and more comfortable and satisfied. This lead to her throwing me personal parties and prepping the women she likes for me. That works for us together, separate is a different issue.

    do you guys have a chat prior to events stating your intentions and such?
    You can't miss something you've never had, but I can be sure she will regret her opportunity...

    Better known as Debauchivalrious...

  5. #5
    Knochig is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Navigating as a Young Swinger (who looks older than he is)

    We usually have a conversation about how we're going to go about things and try to manage our emotions and anxieties. We also have code speak and different numbers to indicate how interested/comfortable we are with a couple. Is there any way to help her become more comfortable? Also, I'm looking for more good resources on state control; I'm actually about to undergo EMDR therapy for my personal trauma.

  6. #6
    D1v1ou$$'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Navigating as a Young Swinger (who looks older than he is)

    I'd say loosen up with a lil liquor, not too much, but just enough to take off the edge. That's what my girl does as she is socially awkward in new settings where we don't know many people. Don't make any of this any more complicated than it needs to be, I've noticed in the past, for me that it, that taking things to an unnecessary level causes the anxieties and sometimes the loss of interest. Hope this helps.
    You can't miss something you've never had, but I can be sure she will regret her opportunity...

    Better known as Debauchivalrious...


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