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Unread 04-30-2012, 11:26 PM
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Question sh1t test or just rejection?

I know a shy/quiet HB9 who gets hit on a lot and is fairly defensive. I haven't seen her date in the 2 years i've roughly known her.

I was friends with for a while, but only really started chilling with her in the last few months. I used to invite her out not thinking much of it (she would travel into town from the subburbs to hang with me). I have a lot of pretty female friends I hang out with but wouldn't usually invite them when shes around... although she probably figured they were around. She also has guys she hangs out with. She would often have photos of them on her BBM.

Her fam is fairly strict and try to get her to focus on school. She keeps her friends apart from me, ive met them once or twice... she never mentions other guys... and i've met her family once or twice (once where her sister threw down "ohhh you must be so and so"... i'm pretty much a seperate world from her main world but they seem to all know about me. I did meet most of them (including the guys/orbiters) on her bday and pretty much got "who is this outsider?" type looks... they are all tight.

Last few months we start flirting back and forth a lot, LOADS of IOIs... she would even kino escalate a bit. She stopped posting photos of her and her guy friends (I probably asked who her friend was once or twice) Recently I caught her staring at me, flirting, asking about "girls" I know... she was acting very pseudo girlfriend (which I didn't mind).

For example, she mentioned a girl who came to hang out with us at the beach a year ago; "Who was that cute italian girl who came out with us that one time?". Once we were at dinner and I was checking my phone and forgot what I was checking and mentioned it out loud... she drops "must have been checking on all your dates". somewhat in an inquisitive tone... from this type of behaviour I assumed she was a bit jealous and prodding. (i must have mentioned other girls before, but always made sure it was in a friend context... just as if she mentioned any guy ever she made sure to mention they were just a friend).

One time, I went out with a group of friends, she came, 3-4 chick friends and 2 of my guy friends. I know one of the HB9 friends I invited was into me and they seemed to be sizing each other up at the event, she wanted to split our meals and share and be all cute and such... Eventually the original girl started snapping a bunch of fun photos of the two of us. Pretty couply looking and she kept them up for a few days.

So after all the jealous behaviour most recently I though, know what... shes cute she seems into me so I'll ask her out instead of just keeping her around as my pseudo lady friend... I told her I wanted to take her out for dinner... and tried being all coy and giving me the "Whyyyyyyy". crap... which usually in the past i'd play it off and she'd agree. But I thought I would be more forward and tell her I wanted to take her "on a date". I never used that term with her, we usually hung out (dinner, outings, hanging out at the beach, etC).

"A date? To be honest I didn't see it like that at all, seeing as you have so many girl friends. Just thought that's how it was with us also.
Aaaawkwarddddd, lol"

I played it off as not being awkward and that I just thought we seemed into each other lately and we should "Explore the idea" and in addition that I was fine if she saw it otherwise.

I have the rest of the conversation... but basically she made it sound like she thought I was just another of her guy friends, and thats all she sees it as. I've dealt with enough girls to see when a girl is interested.

I figure;
a) Perhaps I came off too AFC when i asked.
b) She just likes having guys around her and leads them on...
c) She genuinely wasn't interested (which I don't believe)
d) She thinks i'm a bit of a player and got defensive/scared?.

Things have been kind of awkward since (week) and i've given her a bit of cold shoulder... it kind of feels like a challenge to see if I can turn this one around. I'm a little confused because typically i'm not wrong when I see the actions/signs a girl shows like she did... all the little things should add up. The final result is what i'm lost on... wtf happened? perhaps she just likes her orbiters (or another guy).

As a side note, I went out on dates with 2 other girls after since I think i was starting to like the girl too much. i'd see lots of potential with her and want to explore it... meanwhile i'm going to keep myself occupied and keep dating other girls.

Thoughts? advice?... Freeze Out? act like it isn't a big deal?

sorry if i posted this in a wrong website section



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Unread 04-30-2012, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

#0 You said you were friends prior to this all. You could have been in void between friend zone and potential boyfriend.

#1 How long did you wait before asking her out?

#2 SHE initiated Kino, did you at all? At any time? Did you escalate?

#3 Did you build rapport? You mention she, and her family are strict. These girls usually require more rapport.

#4 Was she sh1t testing you at all? You mention she was acting as a "pseudo girlfriend." That could have been a sh1t test in itself.

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Unread 05-01-2012, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

Okay so it's possible that you missed your window, a few months hanging out/flirting, did you even kiss her or anything? Girls don't like to wait around. But my hunch is that you farked up by coming at her like an AFC. Even if she didn't see you as "just friends" prior, that was her natural reaction to your AFC proposal.

She wasn't waiting for you to ask her out on a date. She was waiting for you to take her on an adventure, get her all excited, kiss her, fark her. Girls are all about emotions and being in the moment. It may seem perfectly normal for you to ask a girl you like out on a date, sh1t, that's what they do in romantic comedies and love movies. But that's not what girls really want! And then you proceeded to try and justify why you were asking her out... ouch! Talking to a girl logically will dry up her pussy real fast.

If you wanna close with a girl close with her in the moment. Don't ask her out on a date. Just hang out with her like you normally do. And when you're feeling it, she's feeling it, escalate from there. You have to get her when she's feeling it. Do you see why asking her out on a date was a mistake? Don't TELL her you like her, SHOW her you like her. That's what she wants.

She sounds like a cool girl and it sounds like you genuinely like her. This may still be salvageable. I would re-initiate contact with her ASAP, nothing drastic but just get back to where you were previously. Act like the whole thing never happened! Don't bring it up! If she brings it up just be like "haha don't worry about it". Don't specifically agree to "just friends", if you must just tell her you like hanging out and wanna keep hanging out. Drop the issue as fast as possible though. Next time the two of you are hanging out and you're alone, if you're feeling it, she's feeling it, make your move.

Good news here is that there are two scenarios. One, she genuinely does just see you as "just friends" and sh1t's done. Possible. Two, she was giving you a sign that this isn't what she wants. You two already hang out, what's the fun of going out to dinner? She's waiting for you to make your move, kiss her, fark her. Taking her out on a date is the wrong direction. And her rejecting you was her way of telling you that. So get back to the normal routine but next time you're in the moment make your god damn move.


 
Unread 05-01-2012, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

Hey guys, thanks for the reply.
Reply to OOKĖ;
#0 - I'd say I was definately in the middle... from all the various signs she gave me. This may be nothing... but a few weeks ago when we hung out she randomly grabbed my phone and texted my best friend some silly crap, then went into my calender and randomly entered stuff like "*her name* is so awesome" and crap various times. It was pretty cute...imo.

#1 - I waited TOO long, I didn't clue in early enough. (I was sort of seeing another girl at the time and fairly oblivious). I didn't pick up she was interested until a tad too late. Once I stopped dealing with the other girl I figured it out at that point a few months had passed. She probably got annoyed of waiting and assumed I wasn't interested. My "window" felt at prime about a month ago, if i looked back... although I think it has been open for a while. I know the types who have a short windows but for some reason this girl gave off this 'im into you vibe' for a long time.
A little back history; when we first started really talking, i had considered making my move but my guy and chick friend told me she wasn't interested (turns out she was into me... and he was into the girl)... hence part of the reason I ignored her signals.

#2 SHE initiated Kino, did you at all? At any time? Did you escalate?
- I would; arm around her, lots of touching, playful stuff. I never tried kissing her assuming she was just being a flirt at first. Any situation to potentially kiss close had lots of people around (friends). Best opportunity was at that event i mentioned (which was a month ago)... where she was acting possessive in front of the other girls.

#3 - Lots of rapport, I would say. She doesn't let people into her "circles" much. I remember her mentioning she doesn't let a guy meet her family unless hes worth it or something. So i'd agree with you. She often would talk about how we are so alike, and stuff we could do together... very "team"-ish..., I always tried to use "we" type language with her. She thought highly of me.

#4 - Ya, she would. I'm pretty quick with replies to sh1t tests... I usually play it off with humour. Previous time she tried sh1t testing my invites to events similarly I got past them. It would turn into some "ohhhh OK". Not even that difficult a Sh1t Test. A simple, ok... yes or no.. none of this why or maybe stuff... sometimes she would try to suggest inviting our mutual friend to stuff (which i'd ignore) and she didn't bother going with it. I always assumed that was one of her tests... also, around the time we started reallllyyy hanging out a lot where i clued in she was sorta into me i invited her to lunch w/ my friend, his gf and i. She said how she had to back out because she had plans with her fam later and couldn't afford going out twice. after i insisted she went (and offered to "treat her") she put a little resistance and playfully agreed. (I remember she seemed as if she had really done up her makeup outfit and so on that day...as if it was a big deal). (that was probably also another kiss close window/day after we ventured off on our own, OOPS!).


 
Unread 05-01-2012, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyCurtis View Post
Okay so it's possible that you missed your window, a few months hanging out/flirting, did you even kiss her or anything? Girls don't like to wait around. But my hunch is that you farked up by coming at her like an AFC. Even if she didn't see you as "just friends" prior, that was her natural reaction to your AFC proposal.

She wasn't waiting for you to ask her out on a date. She was waiting for you to take her on an adventure, get her all excited, kiss her, fark her. Girls are all about emotions and being in the moment. It may seem perfectly normal for you to ask a girl you like out on a date, sh1t, that's what they do in romantic comedies and love movies. But that's not what girls really want! And then you proceeded to try and justify why you were asking her out... ouch! Talking to a girl logically will dry up her pussy real fast.

If you wanna close with a girl close with her in the moment. Don't ask her out on a date. Just hang out with her like you normally do. And when you're feeling it, she's feeling it, escalate from there. You have to get her when she's feeling it. Do you see why asking her out on a date was a mistake? Don't TELL her you like her, SHOW her you like her. That's what she wants.

She sounds like a cool girl and it sounds like you genuinely like her. This may still be salvageable. I would re-initiate contact with her ASAP, nothing drastic but just get back to where you were previously. Act like the whole thing never happened! Don't bring it up! If she brings it up just be like "haha don't worry about it". Don't specifically agree to "just friends", if you must just tell her you like hanging out and wanna keep hanging out. Drop the issue as fast as possible though. Next time the two of you are hanging out and you're alone, if you're feeling it, she's feeling it, make your move.

Good news here is that there are two scenarios. One, she genuinely does just see you as "just friends" and sh1t's done. Possible. Two, she was giving you a sign that this isn't what she wants. You two already hang out, what's the fun of going out to dinner? She's waiting for you to make your move, kiss her, fark her. Taking her out on a date is the wrong direction. And her rejecting you was her way of telling you that. So get back to the normal routine but next time you're in the moment make your god damn move.
Ya, I do like her and she is cool. Just hate that i farked up. Ironically, the advice you gave me about showing her not telling her is what i tell my friends... OOPS... part of the reason I asked was that recently she mentioned to me that I don't invite her to some dinner event type stuff i organize... and incorrectly thought that was her hint at a formal date type request and all the jealousy signs... for some dumb reason it made sense in my head to go formal (even though i often KNEW i should go INFORMAL with this girl) [she is a (Tester/iNvester)/denier/realist in 'Pandora' terms, keeping in mind her attention orbiters...].

my conflict is, i see some stuff people write about trying to Freeze Out girls who say they just want to be friends. In this weird middle ground where i'm pretty sure she was (or still is?) into me... does it still work? like you said... act like nothing happened. A freeze out i'd imagine would just make her think i'm being a douche and can't handle rejection.

NOW that i sort of AFC style let the cat out of the bag. the mystery is sort of gone but she must have no doubt in her mind about my intentions (so it isn't ALL bad I guess). If i act like nothing happened, would it just make me seem ok with her decision? i imagine if shes still interested at this point... she will flirting it up with me again? i.e. look for IOIs as if im starting fresh? Acting temporarily AFC when a girl is interested I would imagine sort of just creates a stall or a step back?

I can't blaim her for shooting down my overly formal date request, she isn't the type for the big romantic thing. Shes more the beers and wings type girl. like hey lets hang out... I think if i had just played it off like our casual hang outs i would have gotten a lot further.

I'd like to keep giving it a go (with low expectations). I'm typically pretty good with girls, but this one drives me nutty (hence my fark up). we get along great together and we both know it. I'm of the opinion that once a girl feels attraction to you, even if you screw up, they always have that ability to rekindle the fire.

So my next steps are just play it cool?? I haven't seen her in person in about 2-3 weeks. my buddy was trying to convince me to just ignore her and let her come to me. Since the awkward ask out, she was the one who initiated the contact twice as if nothing happened.
I DID email her today casually... I was organizing a networking group/social event for some club i'm part of and flipped her the email asking if she was interested. she got back to me quickly that she hates the team lol...

odd side note; i tended to be the one initiating contact (historically) but she mostly recently really became a chatter box with me. (recently our rapport has been better than before). we spoke on the weekend briefly and she went on and on as if nothing occurred. she definately isn't completely ignoring me, but I do think she is testing the waters...

Again, thanks for the replies guys! I truly appreciate it. Sorry for the bad grammar i'm typing this quickly before running to bed.


 
Unread 05-01-2012, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

I don't like the idea of a Freeze Out. I really don't. But that's your call. You definitely don't want her to think "okay he's cool with just being friends". Avoid that at all costs. But there are ways to do that without totally shutting her out. Best thing you can do is show her you're not affected. And believe you're not affected. You're just going with the flow - show her you still want her but you aren't gonna go cry if things don't work out.

That's just my personal opinion. Again, your call. Like I said just don't fall into her comfort zone - it's a trap.


 
Unread 05-03-2012, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

Freeze Out is hit or miss from my experience. Really depends on the girls personality... i REALLY don't see it working here. I don't think it is an option anyway, she keeps contacting me and I'd just seem like a douche at this point. If we end up as "just friends" for real, its fine, I meet enough cool chicks... like I said, it is more about me actually liking this one and willing to take a shot at something more serious.

What do you mean by her comfort zone trap? as in, confiding in me about stuff/boys? lol... i wouldn't dare... any girl whos tried before... I have blatantly told them they should shape up and start dating real men... and then change topic (not rudely like this may sound). lol.

I've been trying to keep things light and fun in our communications. Usual minor teasing... i'm starting to really think (given her tremendous jealous signs) recently that perhaps I came off as too much of a player to her and even the language I used when "asking her out officially" may have reinforced that vibe. I have never talked to her about her ex but the ONE time she mentioned him on her own it sounded like she wanted to avoid him... which makes me think perhaps he cheated or something.

IF that is the case, perhaps the casual semi bf nature of our interactions let her feel safe and she enjoyed the attraction. When I tried taking things forward she got scared and perhaps her "i've been hurt" shields went up. A lot of our friends, and perhaps early interactions, would have suggested how i'm always "surrounded by pretty girls". I like to chat up cute girls and perhaps other women can get a bit intimidated by that? Really makes me realize I should be more mindful who I talk to infront of eachother. I was reading on "Jealousy Plotlines" and i have probably commited some faux pas accidentally.

If I used this at minimum as a learning exercise... getting her out and perhaps bringing up the topic of past relationships would lead me to figure out a bit more. I once tried similar with another girl which got into this weird situation and more or less aired out everything. I've even considered telling her some of my past ex stories which have been unpleasant. It could build up some trust (if the issue was trust, in the first place). Again, this is based on my theory from her asking about random girls all the time jealous wise. Remember, she mentioned a girl completely randomly from a year ago... that is whack!

Not to go on a tangent, but I think this may apply... I've always had a thoery that when you build some attraction with a girl, and you don't act fast enough... they get scared and it becomes similar to the "prisoner's dilemma". Both people get gunshy about getting "together" and just try playing it safe in the less effecient equilibrium point. Sometimes the freeze out is the equivalent of cutting any utility from that "safe" zone she had with you and giving you another shot at that "relationship" zone. If a girl who has been hurt thinks you are a player... she may not think it is worthwhile to venture to that relationship zone because it will likely lead to being hurt.

It really just becomes a sort of economics type problem. Utility from staying in their weird pseudo friend/relationship zone outweighs the risk/benefit from heading to the relationship zone. Girls are risk averse... even if she totally wants you. (this is where the action over talk thing would have been key... then it would have been me seducing her into it over her needing to justify jumping into something).

Back to the girl... side note... she typically was MOST flirtatious when other people were around. She seemed super shy when it was just the two of us and at times displayed some defencive/uncomfortable signs. Not in a way that I made her uncomfortable but more so that she didn't know what to do. If i invite her out soon, I suppose a group event would probably be best. I'm thinking something with people she doesn't know as well, that way she will have to be attached to me/feel more comfortable and build some attraction up hopefully. Then we will see where it goes (whether she flirts or not and ideally if i can prod about her past).


 
Unread 05-04-2012, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

Haha so you're an econ major bro? That's me as well. Dude I get what you're saying but you're way overanalyzing stuff. She is definitely not thinking this sh1t out as as logically as you are. Two things:

1. I don't buy the "player" thing. Players don't hang out with girls for a few months before trying anything. And the "I've been hurt shield" is bullsh1t, if she's feeling it then it doesn't matter. These are just excuses girls use to let a guy down softly.

2. Dude you're way wrapped up into this girl. I understand - you like her, you've been hanging out for a few months. But still. That might be what farked you up. Because consciously or subconsciously she could tell you wanted her more than she wanted you. At least that's the feeling I get.

A lot easier said than done but try to manage your expectations. sh1t, maybe you need to start hanging out with some other girls in the interim before you try to escalate with this one again. It'd give you a little more perspective and a level-head, and either you'll give up on this girl or you'll be better prepared to deal with her. Just try and Manage Expectations. Good luck man.


 
Unread 05-04-2012, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

You know, I'd actually flip it around the other way. She likes you but you took awhile to make a move, your move was a little pussy - she rejects you to see how you deal with it. She senses your beta-ness so she's feeling you out. She's just waiting for you to be an alpha and conquer her. So hang out with her, stick your d1ck in her, profit.

That's the best way to look at it. Confidence is key. A lot of the time it helps to treat the whole game like one big shit test. Just Manage Expectations and know when to abort. I still recommend chillin with some other girls, sounds like you're not wanting for opportunities.


 
Unread 05-05-2012, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: sh1t test or just rejection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icey00 View Post
I know a shy/quiet HB9 who gets hit on a lot and is fairly defensive. I haven't seen her date in the 2 years i've roughly known her.

I was friends with for a while, but only really started chilling with her in the last few months. I used to invite her out not thinking much of it (she would travel into town from the subburbs to hang with me). I have a lot of pretty female friends I hang out with but wouldn't usually invite them when shes around... although she probably figured they were around. She also has guys she hangs out with. She would often have photos of them on her BBM.

Her fam is fairly strict and try to get her to focus on school. She keeps her friends apart from me, ive met them once or twice... she never mentions other guys... and i've met her family once or twice (once where her sister threw down "ohhh you must be so and so"... i'm pretty much a seperate world from her main world but they seem to all know about me. I did meet most of them (including the guys/orbiters) on her bday and pretty much got "who is this outsider?" type looks... they are all tight.

Last few months we start flirting back and forth a lot, LOADS of IOIs... she would even kino escalate a bit. She stopped posting photos of her and her guy friends (I probably asked who her friend was once or twice) Recently I caught her staring at me, flirting, asking about "girls" I know... she was acting very pseudo girlfriend (which I didn't mind).

For example, she mentioned a girl who came to hang out with us at the beach a year ago; "Who was that cute italian girl who came out with us that one time?". Once we were at dinner and I was checking my phone and forgot what I was checking and mentioned it out loud... she drops "must have been checking on all your dates". somewhat in an inquisitive tone... from this type of behaviour I assumed she was a bit jealous and prodding. (i must have mentioned other girls before, but always made sure it was in a friend context... just as if she mentioned any guy ever she made sure to mention they were just a friend).

One time, I went out with a group of friends, she came, 3-4 chick friends and 2 of my guy friends. I know one of the HB9 friends I invited was into me and they seemed to be sizing each other up at the event, she wanted to split our meals and share and be all cute and such... Eventually the original girl started snapping a bunch of fun photos of the two of us. Pretty couply looking and she kept them up for a few days.

So after all the jealous behaviour most recently I though, know what... shes cute she seems into me so I'll ask her out instead of just keeping her around as my pseudo lady friend... I told her I wanted to take her out for dinner... and tried being all coy and giving me the "Whyyyyyyy". crap... which usually in the past i'd play it off and she'd agree. But I thought I would be more forward and tell her I wanted to take her "on a date". I never used that term with her, we usually hung out (dinner, outings, hanging out at the beach, etC).

"A date? To be honest I didn't see it like that at all, seeing as you have so many girl friends. Just thought that's how it was with us also.
Aaaawkwarddddd, lol"

I played it off as not being awkward and that I just thought we seemed into each other lately and we should "Explore the idea" and in addition that I was fine if she saw it otherwise.

I have the rest of the conversation... but basically she made it sound like she thought I was just another of her guy friends, and thats all she sees it as. I've dealt with enough girls to see when a girl is interested.

I figure;
a) Perhaps I came off too AFC when i asked.
b) She just likes having guys around her and leads them on...
c) She genuinely wasn't interested (which I don't believe)
d) She thinks i'm a bit of a player and got defensive/scared?.

Things have been kind of awkward since (week) and i've given her a bit of cold shoulder... it kind of feels like a challenge to see if I can turn this one around. I'm a little confused because typically i'm not wrong when I see the actions/signs a girl shows like she did... all the little things should add up. The final result is what i'm lost on... wtf happened? perhaps she just likes her orbiters (or another guy).

As a side note, I went out on dates with 2 other girls after since I think i was starting to like the girl too much. i'd see lots of potential with her and want to explore it... meanwhile i'm going to keep myself occupied and keep dating other girls.

Thoughts? advice?... Freeze Out? act like it isn't a big deal?

sorry if i posted this in a wrong website section
I choose B.. there are girls out there like that "the attention whores" they want all the guys to like them but will never give anything back in return. I think its best you stay away from her its not the type of girl worth spending you time on.

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