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  1. #1
    Christian Guest

    Default some takeaways from the convention

    Ironic I should be sharing this on a site called PUA Forums! But I hope
    you'll find it useful and thought-provoking.

    Last weekend, Nick and I sojourned down to Orlando to speak at the
    "21 Convention," an incredibly well-organized get-together in the
    city that Disney built. Besides a fun trip to Disney world with
    our friends Francis and David, we met some cool people, and
    hopefully inspired and educated a few more.

    I personally had some takeaways that I wanted to share. When we
    work with clients on our bootcamps or platinum programs, they are
    often coming into our world - our place, our event, our teaching
    style - and there is typically a degree of respect, and sometimes
    nervousness. We get to know them over the course of the weekend (or
    month, in the case of the Platinum Program), and we try to
    encourage healthy attitudes during that time.

    But at this Orlando event, we were at the epicenter of group
    PUA-think. Its common in any social situation; there is a
    prevailing value system and social protocol, and people tend to try
    to fit within that. It happens with punk rockers, it happens with
    private equity guys, it happens with PUAs.

    The thing is, a lot of the PUA group think is really
    counterproductive. Let me give you a few examples:

    - there was a lot of focus amongst many of these guys on how many
    sets they'd opened, kind of a competition. We'd never discourage
    you from starting as many conversations as you like, but when
    someone thinks that they're making progress merely by "opening
    sets", they're missing the point. that's not where the progress is
    made - it is made when you -pay attention- to what is working and
    what isn't, learn how to calibrate, and improve your social skills

    - there was definitely a bit of a focus on being "different,"
    whether that was with one's hair, hat, words, or socks. It was
    sort of like "who can stand out the most and still be cool." I
    appreciate a guy who is trying to stretch his identity - I did it
    in high school with a mohawk - but I'll tell you that I do better
    with women in -nice- clothes than I did in anything outlandish,
    ever. But then again, I go for girls who like nice clothes; club
    chicks in Vegas may be a different story.

    - there was an insane focus on the "score" of the women they were
    approaching. One guy showed me a number he'd taken in his
    phonebook, and stored as "Sarah HB 9.6". I wasn't the only guy he
    was showing it to. And hey, if you want to call a girl an 8 or an
    9 or a 10, that's fine... guys have been doing that since time
    immemorial. But no one is impressed until you're dating or
    sleeping with her. And even better if you can end whatever
    relationship you have with her on good terms. Bragging about the
    "10" whose number a guy takes smacks of proving oneself.

    - lack of social calibration. David, Francis, Nick and I were
    sitting in a booth, with a young woman named Erika sitting at the
    end of the booth. One of the attendees came to join us, and
    literally pushed Erika's chair out of the way to make room for
    himself. We all looked at him funny - that's just a weird thing to
    do - and he conceded that he thought he was supposed to show
    "dominance." Yes... when the girl is sort of into you and when you
    want to escalate. But that was just lack of common courtesy.
    Wasn't the only such example, but it was a decent one.

    - overgaming. it sucks when you run out of things to say. But
    what about when you have too much to say? Some guys learn routines
    and go on WAY too long. Others interrupt women early on in an
    attempt to "stack more value" with their own stories. Why? If
    the woman is talking and opening up to you, let her talk! It's
    less work and if you actually listen to her she'll appreciate it,
    want to open up more, then start asking questions about this great
    guy who has been listening to her talk about her life. One of the
    worst pieces of advice I've ever seen in this community is that you
    should interrupt women in order to stack more of your own stories.

    Ok, what's the point of this email? Well, it's not to bash on the
    "community." We are attempting to build a little community at TSM, and I
    think that communities are awesome when the values of the community
    are healthy, and contribute to everyone's success.

    In fact, as I'm watching the community-at-large evolve, I'm seeing
    a move towards more natural stuff, better attitudes towards women,

    But there are still some holdovers. And they're not just community
    attitudes, they're childish attitudes. They're how many men
    between the ages of 15 and 25 think. Its like being in a frat
    house. But In the pickup community, they're sort of formalized and
    given more weight than they deserve, owing to the nature of this
    "let's get girls" goal.

    Most fraternities come together to, well, get girls. But also to
    watch sports, play beer pong, go on outings, and do other social
    activities. These other activities are almost entirely absent from
    the pickup community, so the values and conversations often skew
    towards things like how many approaches a guy did last night.

    I assure you that these are not the conversations that men are
    having who do well with women. Their values and goals are a little
    bit different, and might include things like:

    - how far did they get last night?
    - how did the date go?
    - why they succeeded or failed
    - the crazy things that the girl said or did

    ...and some men just don't kiss and tell at all.

    You see, in all of these, there is a presupposition that the woman
    thing is handled, *at least enough that they don't have to prove it
    to other guys.*

    And that last piece is exactly the difference that can make all the
    difference in the world. Is a guy in this to be popular amongst
    the guys? Or is he in it to get girls? (and when he becomes an
    instructor, is it for his love of teaching and helping others, or
    because he likes having people listen to him?)

    Jay-Z once said "game recognize game, ho's do too." Jigga Man was
    right. A guy with good game, and generally good social skills, can
    tell when another guys is trying to prove himself.

    Chances are that if he's trying to prove himself to another guy,
    he's doing it to women too. Exactly what many men got into this
    whole world to avoid.

    Takeaways? Be yourself and set your own standards. No one is
    impressed by a man who can't get further than a number, or who
    dates a hot woman who makes him miserable.

    And at the end of the day, what you experience with any woman is
    ultimately something for the two of you two enjoy together.

  2. #2
    HighTower's Avatar
    HighTower is offline PUA Forums VIP Member
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    Well Christian - I've heard some AMAZING things about you and Nick. If PUA or pickup lines are not where it is at... where or what should we (well I) be doing to improve my success with women?

  3. #3
    Sniper NYC Guest


    What is the "21 convention" and how do I go next year?

  4. #4
    Christian Guest


    Haha, thanks man...

    Ok well look - "pickup" isn't bad, per se. Like shooting isn't bad. Its only bad when gun nuts get together and lobby for assault weapons. Getting the metaphor?

    Going out to work on picking up girls, and hanging out with others who want to do the same, there's nothing wrong with that. Its a damn right of passage, I'd say! It's only when the "group think" - what the other PUA guys think - gets in the way of progress.

    I've seen this a bunch. Its painful to go up and get rejected, and its a lot easier to stand there and talk big and critique. So when a bunch of guys get into it who aren't experienced, there is a lot of posturing. That's natural social dynamics as any group forms. The guy who is most sure of himself becomes the leader. And when no one is getting results (which in the early days of anyone's pickup progress, can be tough to come by), you start to look to other metrics, like the hotness of the girl you talked to, or the number of approaches you did. All well and good... until those start becoming the dominant ways of measuring success.

    Make sense?

    So I say go out, work on pickup, work on social skills, comport with others! That's all fine. Just keep a level head and remember why you got into this to begin with: to meet and date hot women.

  5. #5
    Bandit Guest


    christian is a genious although the "15-25 attitude" thing was kinda unfair lol. i must say that post was brilliant.

  6. #6
    HighTower's Avatar
    HighTower is offline PUA Forums VIP Member
    Points: 1,757, Level: 25
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 43
    Overall activity: 0%
    31 days registered1000 Experience Points
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    How old are you bandit...


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