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  1. #1
    FrankDrebbin Guest

    Default miserable failure

    Hi,
    this is going to be my first so called “field report” just to let you guys know where I am standing. And maybe you have some tips how I can improve the basic stuff … and there is a lot to improve.

    I just moved over from Germany so I don’t know many people over here … .

    I might start at the very beginning ( conveniently this week ) of my experiences. Last weekend I drove to a bar with my buddies but was too afraid to talk to other girls. So I just talked with my buddies since they also did speak with anyone I did not meet any new people ( except the friends of my roomates). Anyway, the next day I decided I need to go to a party on my own and try to talk to girls. So I went to the bar again but guess what? I drank a coke and did not have the balls to talk to someone.

    This really pissed me off since I am usually a person which can talk with any guy(!) about anything, hell I can almost run an entire conversation just on my own but when it comes to me with a girl I am stuck.

    Back in Germany I used to be a hobby portrait photographer so I had some HB in front of my camera and then I could talk to them just fine. I think when I don’t put myself under pressure it works just fine.

    When I was home on Saturday last week ( and I was home early … ) I did some research and ordered me some books, ‘The Game’, ‘Pickup Artist Secrets’ and ‘Bang’. I thought I might get a good start when I read the books. Till Friday I was done with ‘Pickup Artist Secrets’ but I could not remember much stuff out of it – I still had the lack of a good conversation opener which really freaked me out.

    So Friday came I and me and my roommate hit the bar J. There we met with some of the softball buddies of my one roommate. We started a little bit talking and I could talk with them just fine, despite my bad english which is sometimes still obvious ( I’m pretty fluent but I since English is not my mothers tongue it’ll probably some more time ).

    After my roommate told his buddies my story and that I am a shy German the objective was set for the evening: The German has to speak to gurls . This week at least one, next week 2 … and so on …

    At first I thought they’d be just making fun of me and so I just played along till it came to action … .

    I totally blew the first 2-Set …. I just turned around and used a pretty strange opener “Do you know how much an polar bears weigh? …. Well enough to break the ice”. They did not get it … my wingmen jumped in and rescued the situation.

    Afterwards we were talking in a growing group with some girls and they did open a set of 3 Brasilians for me … which I approached with another wingmen I actually did some conversation but I felt it to be so ( I don’t know how to describe it … ) awkward I just did not know what to say … , after 10 minutes the set left the place and I went back to the table without a number or so … . Anyway I got back to my group and the 3 Set was looking from the outside into the bar and just looked at me and my group and waited .. my group said they were actually waiting for me to get out and ask for the number, but I did not think so.

    Maybe I am wrong but I am really shy in this matter so I did nothing.

    Well that was Friday evening.

    On Saturday I started reading ‘The Game’ and went out into the mall shopping. While I was in the mall I was talking with a couple of female sales persons ( HB7 & hot Asian 8 ). Actually they asked me if I want their cell# ... .

    While I was walking thru the mall several people asked me If I am a model or so … I don’t know why cuz I actually don’t think that I am pretty … well I do look kinda different from most people over here in San Jose. But this model thing is interesting cuz one of my female buddies over here asked me the same question, maybe I have a completely strange self-awareness but that’s some different issue probably.

    On Saturday I went out alone again, I thought I need to get some practice. So I went into the bar from Friday and immediately got into a Mixed Set and started talking with the guys (easy ). During the talking the girls of the set started looking and smiling at me but I did not talk with them cuz I was pretty busy with the guys. Maybe I should’ve talked with them too but I just did not know what to say or ask how they are connected.

    This set however claimed my accent sounded French … I thought that would be an interesting conversation opener and moved away.

    I switched into another club and sadly I noticed that this was a dance club so I tried to talk to some girls but always switched directions just before stepping into the set. Anyway I approached 4 Sets and asked them my accent question … but after that I did not know how to further carry the conversation and the girls apparently made no move to carry the conversation so it died off.

    Today I tried day gaming but I again failed after the first couple of lines in the conversation. That just can’t be? I must be able to do some smalltalk with girls?!


    Anyway I think I had a breakthrough this weekend that I went out and talked with girls .. so first approach to beat my shyness .



    Ok my main questions are now:
    How can I start a conversation in clubs, how in malls, daygame in general?
    What are other good books and literature?



    How can I change the topic of a conversation? I started the day game stuff today with something like "Excuse me, can you show me the directions to the next StarBucks?"


    But I’m happy about feedback on the whole situation.


    Btw. sorry for so much writing I hope I can keep it shorter the next time.

  2. #2
    Mystery_wannabe Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    I think you're getting things a little mixed up here.

    The mystery method are meant to be used in clubs and usually during night. For a day game, you need to use natural gaming. If you walk up to them with those mystery tricks during the day, they're going to look at you weird.

    That's exactly what happened to me. In fact, you can even take a look at my Day Game. Blanked out. thread for some tips. I know for me it is in a university environment but the same types of principles apply.

    The second issue I see is your inner game. You don't have a frame of yourself so you're overly focused on the things you say. I totally understand you because that's how I was too when I started to talk with girls. However, the phrase "practice makes perfect" is true.

    First you must relax yourself. You are looking at every girl as a "potential target". Stop that Mindset when you enter a set. Treat them like human beings or think of them as girls that you are taking pictures of back in your profession days. Have the attitude of "I'm just here to find out more about these girls and maybe see if they are worthy of my time". This will help you get conversations going.

  3. #3
    gunsnglory is offline Official PUA Forums Moderator
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    Default Re: miserable failure

    I am an amature actor. One thing I do to help me overcome Approach Anxiety is to substitute, in my mind, the scenario under which I am meeting the women.

    Real Scenario:
    I'm in a club. The girl is with a couple of her friends and they all are surrounded by a 10 foot Bitch Shield and two boyfriends orbiting the circle.

    In my mind:
    These women are bored out of their mind. They are hoping that I will come over and tell them about X which I absolutely love talking about because it is really important to me.

    Now the funny thing is that 90% of the scenario I made up is completely or very likely to be true. But look at the difference it makes in the approach atmosphere. Furthermore, it allows me to disassociate myself a little more from the outcome. While I wouldn't recommend using this technique all the time (It is important to become confident enough to address women without deflecting all of the criticism to a "character"), it can be very powerful in helping you overcome your fear. In your case I would imagine that these women are possible future subjects for you to photograph. In fact, I bet you could have some real success opening on something related to your past experience photographing beautiful women. Telling the women something along that line will also dhv you significantly.

  4. #4
    Ambition Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    Great advice from the guys above me.

    A few tips from me...

    1) Having an accent automatically puts you ahead of the game. HB's love accents (don't ask me why). The same's true if any of us American guys go to another country, we'll automatically have that going for us. HOWEVER, because you have the accent and potentially a language barrier (you write it just fine, so not sure), the clever openers might not work as well with you. A clever opener, like the breaking the ice one (I like that by the way) only works when everything you say is 100% understood. Not to say you don't speak perfect English, but the first thing any woman is going to hear out of your mouth is the accent, and after that your words might be lost. Stay simple with your openers and you'll be in good shape.

    And also, be sure to include a time constraint. That's going to change you open immensely!

    Either way though, great job with approaching a few sets. Bomb or not, getting started is the hardest part!

  5. #5
    FrankDrebbin Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery_wannabe View Post
    I think you're getting things a little mixed up here.

    The mystery method are meant to be used in clubs and usually during night. For a day game, you need to use natural gaming. If you walk up to them with those mystery tricks during the day, they're going to look at you weird.

    That's exactly what happened to me. In fact, you can even take a look at my Day Game. Blanked out. thread for some tips. I know for me it is in a university environment but the same types of principles apply.

    The second issue I see is your inner game. You don't have a frame of yourself so you're overly focused on the things you say. I totally understand you because that's how I was too when I started to talk with girls. However, the phrase "practice makes perfect" is true.

    First you must relax yourself. You are looking at every girl as a "potential target". Stop that mindset when you enter a set. Treat them like human beings or think of them as girls that you are taking pictures of back in your profession days. Have the attitude of "I'm just here to find out more about these girls and maybe see if they are worthy of my time". This will help you get conversations going.
    Yep, I'd probably got a little bit to serious about talking to them and seeing them as targets which probably made me a little bit uneasy in BL aswell as thinking. Next time I'm going clubbing I'll try it with a different attitude and maybe the world looks all different .


    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnglory View Post
    I am an amature actor. One thing I do to help me overcome Approach Anxiety is to substitute, in my mind, the scenario under which I am meeting the women.

    Real Scenario:
    I'm in a club. The girl is with a couple of her friends and they all are surrounded by a 10 foot Bitch Shield and two boyfriends orbiting the circle.

    In my mind:
    These women are bored out of their mind. They are hoping that I will come over and tell them about X which I absolutely love talking about because it is really important to me.

    Now the funny thing is that 90% of the scenario I made up is completely or very likely to be true. But look at the difference it makes in the approach atmosphere. Furthermore, it allows me to disassociate myself a little more from the outcome. While I wouldn't recommend using this technique all the time (It is important to become confident enough to address women without deflecting all of the criticism to a "character"), it can be very powerful in helping you overcome your fear. In your case I would imagine that these women are possible future subjects for you to photograph. In fact, I bet you could have some real success opening on something related to your past experience photographing beautiful women. Telling the women something along that line will also DHV you significantly.
    I think that imagination thing is great . One can think of a whole different situation and approach them at the best of ones knowledge but as you said one is not really gaining confidence under "usual" circumstances which is mostly my goal. But I think for the start it would be probably just fine to get a little help from "above".

    If I would open with my past experiences as photographer I would probably pretty fast ask them if they would like to model for me , which would be great too but it would miss the target since then your probably going to a LJBF Relationship rather than the other direction.

    But I guess telling them some stuff between the lines or to higher my value photography could workout pretty well.. I got some beautiful pictures on my iPhone which I could show just in case, but that would probably be to much self centered. And I would not know how to do it -yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambition View Post
    Great advice from the guys above me.

    A few tips from me...

    1) Having an accent automatically puts you ahead of the game. HB's love accents (don't ask me why). The same's true if any of us American guys go to another country, we'll automatically have that going for us. HOWEVER, because you have the accent and potentially a language barrier (you write it just fine, so not sure), the clever openers might not work as well with you. A clever opener, like the breaking the ice one (I like that by the way) only works when everything you say is 100% understood. Not to say you don't speak perfect English, but the first thing any woman is going to hear out of your mouth is the accent, and after that your words might be lost. Stay simple with your openers and you'll be in good shape.

    And also, be sure to include a time constraint. That's going to change you open immensely!

    Either way though, great job with approaching a few sets. Bomb or not, getting started is the hardest part!
    My English is not as good as people who have english as their motherstongue but in most times people tell me my english is very good. But I think it's harder in clubs in to understand me because the noise which is surrounding is so much higher than in stores or different locations that it's probably a little handicap.
    But as you said the accent is an asset and I need to learn how to use that asset .

    I did not include a time constraint which was probably a huge mistake - but we do mistakes to learn from them .

    Thanks for your advices guys I really appreciate it.
    I'm probably clubbing again at Friday and till this point I hope I am able to read more stuff and maybe learn some openers ... and then learn how to keep the conversation going.

    I already improved my body language and try to seek EC with every women which passes me on the street or in the supermarket - strange stuff .

    By the way: With some distance to the weekend I see it as a huge improvement that I actually approached them and "talked" to them.

  6. #6
    FrankDrebbin Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    Hey,
    I went to the gym yesterday and I thought that would be a good place to talk to a couple of people .. before I had approached the first set ( bf and gf ) I had an approach anxiesty but the opener from mistery worked really well ... geez I was able to make a full length discussion with the guy ... I think I neglected the girl a bit too much ... haha ... I got the number from the guy afterwards ^^. I tried it on a couple of girls later and it always worked ... geez I really think I can do it .

  7. #7
    Instinct Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    Are you in Germany? I train guys out here.

  8. #8
    FrankDrebbin Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    Right now I'm in the Bay Area in California :/, thanks for the offer . How long are you in Germany ( or are you German )?
    I would love to come back to the offer when I return to germany ( august/september next year ). I hope that I'm doing a lot better till then tho .

    I have to admit tho .. once I saw that the opener worked I had less and less fear to approach tho - and since I was just out on conversation I could actually talk with all of the people pretty good . It was just conversation .. but it's step after step.

    I think if I can built comfort in the group - for me and for me ... but I need to take care of the "objective".

    I think the different phases which one must run thru are:


    • Approach
    • Built Comfort in Group
    • Pick a target
    • "Work on target" ( I've got to read a lot about this ... )
      • build up rapport
      • dhv ( how? ESP Test, Cube, Best Friend test?, show some of my photos? )
    • get the number or so

    If I forgot some feel free to add
    Last edited by FrankDrebbin; 12-10-2009 at 01:58 PM.

  9. #9
    Instinct Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankDrebbin View Post
    Right now I'm in the Bay Area in California :/, thanks for the offer . How long are you in Germany ( or are you German )?
    I would love to come back to the offer when I return to germany ( august/september next year ). I hope that I'm doing a lot better till then tho .

    I have to admit tho .. once I saw that the opener worked I had less and less fear to approach tho - and since I was just out on conversation I could actually talk with all of the people pretty good . It was just conversation .. but it's step after step.


    I will be done in Germany in about 4 weeks, then I am setting up a program in the US, its basically health, fitness, confidence, motivation. (the focus is actually on a food service) . I don't teach pua, I teach how to feel good about yourself, for some men and women, it translates over. And for many men and women, that requires going to a club or coffee shop and practicing speaking to people.

  10. #10
    FrankDrebbin Guest

    Default Re: miserable failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Instinct View Post
    I will be done in Germany in about 4 weeks, then I am setting up a program in the US, its basically health, fitness, confidence, motivation. (the focus is actually on a food service) . I don't teach pua, I teach how to feel good about yourself, for some men and women, it translates over. And for many men and women, that requires going to a club or coffee shop and practicing speaking to people.
    Ah ok, feeling good about myself would probably be a good thing for me and really boost my approaching. I'm way more confident in myself than I used to be 8 weeks ago. Your program sounds very interesting, if I would've the chance I probably visit it .

    As for now I ordered a couple more books and try to distill every bit of information which I could use.


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