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  1. #1
    dgmortal is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Reactiveness and Punishment

    Carlos xuma in his ultimate inner game program states that alpha man must be non reactive to the hard time which his gf gives to him, no emotional reaction at all. But In the Pandoras box system it is stated that in front of justifiers we should be extremely vigilant and punish them IMMEDIATELY when they try to test or disrespect us, by getting cold and distant. I'm in a relationship with a justifier and I'm pretty confused now. whats your thoughts about this? isn't getting cold and distant an emotional reaction?

  2. #2
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    It's a really hard thing and depends on the girl. Often a womens emotional card is to cry and a man's to shout or get aggressive. The problem being is they can criticize us for being aggressive whereas it's harder to criticize the womens less threatening but equally powerful tears. It can be hard to be distant and cold because women might wear you down in an argument and we sometimes lack the patience and just give in. I see it like rain: you can't stop it but make sure you have a good umbrella. Or the goal is not to win in an argument but shorten it's time down. I've found with some girls when the heat is on it doesn't matter what I say or how I behave - my aim as an alpha simply becomes reducing the amount of time wasted discussing something silly or trying to communicate with her emotionally. Again the difficultly here is women may only recognize your emotions when you start shouting. But if you can reduce the time in that zone you have more chance to be a bit cold and try be firm and aggressive but not shout. I try avoid arguing too many facts because she will turn those sand grains into a pearl against me. The less you say the less she has to go on. Just let her yap on 'you finished yet?'. Punishment works to a degree 'oh so by your attitude I take it you don't want me to take you shopping tomorrow, oh well your bad luck, I'm not taking you now'. Or play really cold and don't give in at all but maybe the next morning you switch her back up saying 'I'll make you breakfast in bed, what do you want' that's better than defaulting to 'I'm sorry'. Your the alpha who doesn't take that crap but knows how to get her back up to emotional par. I knew a guy that when his GF would hassle him he would say 'there's the door, if you don't like it leave' or 'there's the newspaper, look up personals if you want something different'. I don't know if that worked though, that just made her more mad haha. So yeah it's a fine line. Sometimes in a relationship you have to continue the attitude you had when you were single. I know lots of alphas that get worn down through a relationship into fluffy Teddy bears. Make no excuses for being a man because they don't usually make any for being a women. They hold the sex key, we hold the financial (usually) and protection key. As hard as it is try not to get angry or get soppy and give in. Ride out the rain and often they will apologize later.

    I know a girl at a bar and flirt with her a bit. Occasionally I give her a small tip, when we have a good chat. We have each others numbers but I don't ask her out because she's always working and I like the dynamic the way it is. The other day I gave her a little tip and she sheepishly pushed it away (but obviously wanted it) out of politeness to get me to reinforce the offer. I said 'ok you don't want it? No problem' and coldly took the money away but with a sly grin. Man she was texting me ALL night. Firstly with angry but joking emoticons, later with extreme happiness when I texted 'maybe next time if your lucky'.

    Idk it's a big topic and I've only covered a bit on arguments and an example of punishment but give us some more details on your relationship.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    I am aware of both systems you speak of and have looked into both but have purchased neither.

    As a true fan of TD and RSD I'm going to preech accordingly.

    My best friend (a girl) complains about her boyfriend all the time. She nags him, but the truth is most of her complaints are things she likes about him--though she won't admit that. What women say, what they mean, and what they want are all entirely different things.

    Manwhore calls it "being centered." Remaining in your own state without letting outside stimulus affect it. Why? Because you want the Law of State Transference working in your favor. By standing calm and collected, her irrational state will eventually be overpowered by yours. The point to take away from this is that her nagging and complaining should leave you unphased.

    Conditioning your wom(a/e)n is a little bit different of a concept. Freud's Classical Conditioning needs slight alterations when applied to women. Positive response is always more powerful than negative. Reward the good with attention, while the bad a lack there of. It is most important to reward, not to punish, and punishment has a bad connotation that isn't deserved in this context. Punishment shouldn't be an actual act, but a lack of reward.

    In layman's terms, you can get women to behave how you like by positive feedback to the good, not criticizing the bad. People don't change because you told them you don't like something about them, but they will reinforce an action that you call to their attention as appealing:

    "I hate when you wear your hair up." - This doesn't work.

    "I love when you wear your hair down." - This does, and will.
    Wondering where I am now? Check out my latest project:


  4. #4
    dgmortal is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedragon View Post
    It's a really hard thing...
    Thanks for the through reply, What is my issue most of times is the times that the girl intentionally tries to stand in front of me, maybe to prove me I'm not masculine enough, or to abuse the feeling I have for her, for example when I have planned to go to a hike then when we meet she changes the plan "lets go to the cinema" with a seductive smile. since I don't care about the place that much, most of times I try to play it cool and not react as I'm offended but when I react it gonna be an argument which she will win eventually.

    I can play it cool all the times and avoid all the arguments but I really lose a bit of my attraction every time. she wants me to be alpha, she gets attracted to me every time I dominate her the right way, she doesn't know anything about alpha or beta, it works on her unconscious level. this girl a prefect opportunity for me to practice alpha masculinity

  5. #5
    dgmortal is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.onethousand View Post
    My best friend (a girl) complains about her boyfriend all the time. She nags him, but the truth is most of her complaints are things she likes about him--though she won't admit that. What women say, what they mean, and what they want are all entirely different things...
    Exactly, and the problem is: should we give them what they want? or what they mean and what the say?
    I have argued with my other female friends about this, they say thing like: "show her that you love her" or "let her know that you think about her" but does that work? no! because they speak from their own point of view and what they lacked in their own relationships.

    Long ago when I was angry of the girl's disrespect, she expected me to be unhappy of that and was excusing then I coldly replied "you know I'm not offended of your behavior cos we are only friends" she didn't react to it that day, but a few weeks later she confessed how my coldness that day burnt her. also it worth noting that when she was burnt, she didn't react at all, in spite of being very reactive and sensitive.

  6. #6
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    Well that sounds better than a girl who just agrees with whatever you decide!

    Quote Originally Posted by dgmortal View Post
    Thanks for the through reply, What is my issue most of times is the times that the girl intentionally tries to stand in front of me, maybe to prove me I'm not masculine enough, or to abuse the feeling I have for her, for example when I have planned to go to a hike then when we meet she changes the plan "lets go to the cinema" with a seductive smile. since I don't care about the place that much, most of times I try to play it cool and not react as I'm offended but when I react it gonna be an argument which she will win eventually.

    I can play it cool all the times and avoid all the arguments but I really lose a bit of my attraction every time. she wants me to be alpha, she gets attracted to me every time I dominate her the right way, she doesn't know anything about alpha or beta, it works on her unconscious level. this girl a prefect opportunity for me to practice alpha masculinity

  7. #7
    BatMan's Avatar
    BatMan is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    Emotions are the foundation of our being. They help us survive this thing called life. It is good you have the "play it cool" attitude but it is also important to be flexible with your emotions. The women that get obsessed with their men are often with the type of guys that put them on an emotional roller coaster with their drama and jealousy etc. Granted you should not have to go to this extreme but the principle is the same. Also showing more and more emotion will lower your value and thats a risk in itself. The problem with playing it cool however is that you are not punishing her bad behavior so she will unconciously know that this behavior is ok with you. Then she will walk all over you since you are "cool" with everything. Being cold and distant is a good punishment but it has "REACTION"writte n all over it so use it sparingly. What I feel is more powerful is being distance. Have you ever had someone that was being nice towards you but not giving 100% of them. Maybe they answer your questions with one word answers or give a half giggle to something funny you said. It's like their distracted or don't care and that, I believe has more impact. Remember the opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy.

  8. #8
    dgmortal is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    Quote Originally Posted by BatMan View Post
    Have you ever had someone that was being nice towards you but not giving 100% of them. Maybe they answer your questions with one word answers or give a half giggle to something funny you said. It's like their distracted or don't care and that, I believe has more impact. Remember the opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy.
    yes, I've felt the exact same many times, it is painful when you are telling a story to a girl with a total enthusiasm and suddenly the girls says "look how cute is that baby across the street!" and you figure out that she wasn't giving attention at all and it piss me off, does it have the same impact on girls?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Reactiveness and Punishment

    Yes it does. Especially if she's telling you a story she is excited about. If it's your gf and you want to punish her the next time she says something she's excited about just smile and say "that's nice" then walk away and do something else. That is such a cold shoulder, but because it's not a direct and obvious cold shoulder she won't know what to make of it. She will be uncomfortable and eventually will try to get the comfort back. Even if it means starting an argument. So be wary of this.


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