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  1. #1
    geshed is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default how do I fuck up these sure-fire things!?

    A little background on me:

    I'm 24. She's 21.

    Physically, I'm not your typical "hunk" -- kinda fat, long hair (which I put up in weird styles), full facial hair (usually fairly groomed). Unusual and inconsistent dressing style (even for my "scene"). I tend to ooze confidence, even to the point of full-on arrogance, but always in an indirect/"nice" sort of way. I'm exuberant energetic; a dance floor dominator.

    My social circles are all of the alt/artistic/music variety.

    I'm a computer scientist, an artist, a performer, an active DJ and musician, and enjoy holding intelligent conversations about just about any topic.

    I'm socially dominant in my scenes; I can barely keep up with the daily volume of my facebook wall and text messages, and tend to ignore a lot of communication.

    Girls tend to develop MAJOR crushes on me before actually getting to know me well.

    Here's a recent scenario:

    Met this cute girl a few weeks ago casually at some parties / a friends house. She was super flirty on me but I wasn't much for reciprocation (she was all nervous, in a cute way, and just wasn't really into it yet). Went out for some impromptu coffee -- developed some great chemistry. Very sharp/smart/quick-witted girl & this is totally mandatory for me. She proactively gives me her phone number (I don't give her mine).

    A week goes by. I see her briefly at another event, but I was working the event so not much interaction took place.

    Then a perfect date opportunity arises. I send her a flirty text inviting her to a club night, she nervously and very eagerly responds & comes over my place beforehand for some pre-gaming.

    The date goes amazingly. Again, awesome chemistry, lots of physical contact, lots of sexual escalation but no kissing. Note that this isn't a bump & grind kind of club atmosphere, more of a rave/techno/hardstyle dance sort of thing (literally no grinding in the house, it's just not the culture). She had a blast.

    I have total social dominance in this scene. Dozens of hugs/hellos -- from the DJs and people putting on the event. I introduced her to lots of people. Folks were straight up thanking me just for coming out and being present at their night, in earshot of her.

    OK, here's where things start to get farking weird:

    I drive her back to my place -- she's eager to do so.

    Eventually, she says she wants to pass out. OK. She was gonna curl up on the couch but I told her she didn't have to do that, and led her to my (rather swanky) room. She seemed delighted.

    When we got there, I *finally* made a move and started making out with her. It lasted for all of 2 minutes before she gave me "hey, I really liked kissing you, but I'm just not in a place to hook up right now". OK -- I farked something up.

    I gave her a t-shirt to change into, and she "tried" to pass out, still wearing pants. But she was so clearly not sleeping, and I was just plain up and about doing sh1t.

    Long-ish story short, I pretty much kept her up all night, persistent making moves. She'd be walking away and I'd grab her and kiss her and go for her neck, and viscerally she was responding *oh so well* -- full on moaning, gasping, reciprocating. But after all of a few minutes she'd give me a "I can't handle this right now, it's too much".

    Eventually (and this was like 7am now), I asked if she could get herself home, and she said she could.

    What am I doing wrong here?

    Are these girls seeing me as BF material (as opposed to fark buddy material?) Am I creeping them out with my persistence, or simply avoiding the friend-zone B.S.?

    Experts: help!!!

  2. #2
    BatMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: how do I fuck up these sure-fire things!?

    I would first like to say that nowadays aren't as good as highschool anymore lol. It was much easier back then so don't beat yourself up if you're having trouble now.

    I literally read your post twice and can obviously see your frustration. So I think I may have the magic pill you need.

    I believe your issue lies with kino. You said it yourself about your persistence. It's fine to chase, but you leave the decision completely in her hands if you do. So learning how to kino properly I believe will help you immensely.

    The Dicarlo Kino Escalation Ladder is the perfect tool for mastering kino. But I will give you the broad strokes here. Which is really all you need unless you feel you need more.

    This is an isolated incident when looking at the details, but the psychology is still the same and this represents an easy way to understand it. I recently went to an after party type club. I was already pretty drunk, but like to consider myself a functional drunk. As soon as I walked in I headed straight for the bar and squeezed myself between a group of 4 women. I quickly blurted out to them "OK don't touch me or try to get my money!" They responded with "WHAT?" and proceeded to rub me all over my back and chest while I was ordering a drink. Then accused me of having a girlfriend and if I didn't I should prove them wrong by making out with one of them. Which I did.

    Again this is an isolated incident, but the principle behind the kino is so basic in this example. It's using push/pull which is the secret to success with kino. You always start and end the kino on your terms. You may think that I didn't start the kino with those women, but technically I did by telling them to NOT touch me in the first place. I doubt they would've if I didn't say that.

    So when you kiss a woman, you have to be the one to end it first. When you grab her and pull her in, then you have to be the first one to push her away from you.

    Have you ever tried rubbing your forearm? If you don't believe this just try it. Rub it for about 30 seconds and you will notice that once your hand is removed there is a sort of "phantom hand" left behind. It has a different temperature and can even get colder then the rest of your arm. Which can feel strange or even uncomfortable.

    When you are touching women this is how you want your touch to be. For them to feel uncomfortable with you NOT touching them. Most of the time they will reinitiate kino themselves and you can still push them away. It's like pushing a cat off of your lap and it keeps trying to jump on you simply because you are pushing it off.

    If you use this push/pull and always start the kino and end it on your terms then very quickly the tension will build up. And I mean all the way into bed. Move her hand to your junk then take it away. How's that for self-control. I'd be happy to answer anymore questions if you feel this helps you. Good luck.

  3. #3
    PSAM_RST is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: how do I fark up these sure-fire things!?

    Hi geshed,

    It sounds like you encountered some LMR and didn't handle it in the correct Alpha male/game style.

    It was almost a test and I think you failed it by becoming needy and at that point maybe she though she had you and lost interest in the 'chase', so to speak. You had gone from the Alpha male she was attracted to, to the beta, needy male that tried too hard.

    There are some excellent people on here that will be able to explain how to deal with LMR and give you some excellent advice. There are also a lot of threads about it, as it is encountered quite a bit.

    Just thought I would offer my interpretation of your situation.

    Hope it helps. Best wishes.
    "Named must your fear be before banish it you can."

  4. #4
    Cody's Avatar
    Cody is offline PUA All Star (RETIRED)
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    Default Re: how do I fuck up these sure-fire things!?

    Hmm. I have a different take on it. I think you hit LMR because you didn't prep for the last 10 yards. Read this. It should solve any future problems.

    -Cody
    Wondering where I am now? Check out my latest project:


  5. #5
    geshed is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: how do I fark up these sure-fire things!?

    Wow, man, this is awesome. I think you may have nailed it down for me.

    On our dates, at the club -- etc -- things were going well. I had NO persistence. I didn't hover around here. I danced away from her most of the time. I would often jet to another room or outside without telling her why. This wasn't any sort of calculated "game", this is just how I am at these things -- I have lots of people to talk to, lots of stuff I want to do, I'm not going to be babysitting my date.

    Actually, every time I saw her beforehand I was "alpha" as fuck to everyone around me. I'm 100% new to any kind of PUA culture; I'm quite naturally an independent don't-give-a-fuck-what-you-think type... that somehow dissolves in the bedroom with cuties?


    After she got up to my bedroom, I got pretty full-force. Yeah, I started kissing her hard and went right for pushing her onto the bed, and she was like "no way!",

    BUT, at the end of the night, when I kissed her hard, giving her no choice, and pulled *myself* away, she gave me the biggest widest smile. Of course, I might not ever see her again, but yeah -- I'm picking up the difference in reactions now.

    Our kino was escalating fast in terms of touchy/feeling/holding/"OMG that was so funny I'm grabbing your thigh" but I think I was too late with the kissing and was almost completely void of what you call push/pull. I was all pull, then at the bedroom I was all push.

    Once again -- thanks for this beautiful and well thought-out reply. I've never read any "PUA" material; I've kinda always seen "PUA" as some creepy shit I didn't need (and I've seen some creepy/demeaning shit out there) -- but trust me, this girl *wanted* to hook up with me hard, and I *know* she is feeling confused and disappointed about the night. We both would have had a lot more fun having crazy monkey sex instead of awkward goodbyes.


    Quote Originally Posted by BatMan View Post
    I would first like to say that nowadays aren't as good as highschool anymore lol. It was much easier back then so don't beat yourself up if you're having trouble now.

    I literally read your post twice and can obviously see your frustration. So I think I may have the magic pill you need.

    I believe your issue lies with kino. You said it yourself about your persistence. It's fine to chase, but you leave the decision completely in her hands if you do. So learning how to kino properly I believe will help you immensely.

    The Dicarlo Kino Escalation Ladder is the perfect tool for mastering kino. But I will give you the broad strokes here. Which is really all you need unless you feel you need more.

    This is an isolated incident when looking at the details, but the psychology is still the same and this represents an easy way to understand it. I recently went to an after party type club. I was already pretty drunk, but like to consider myself a functional drunk. As soon as I walked in I headed straight for the bar and squeezed myself between a group of 4 women. I quickly blurted out to them "OK don't touch me or try to get my money!" They responded with "WHAT?" and proceeded to rub me all over my back and chest while I was ordering a drink. Then accused me of having a girlfriend and if I didn't I should prove them wrong by making out with one of them. Which I did.

    Again this is an isolated incident, but the principle behind the kino is so basic in this example. It's using push/pull which is the secret to success with kino. You always start and end the kino on your terms. You may think that I didn't start the kino with those women, but technically I did by telling them to NOT touch me in the first place. I doubt they would've if I didn't say that.

    So when you kiss a woman, you have to be the one to end it first. When you grab her and pull her in, then you have to be the first one to push her away from you.

    Have you ever tried rubbing your forearm? If you don't believe this just try it. Rub it for about 30 seconds and you will notice that once your hand is removed there is a sort of "phantom hand" left behind. It has a different temperature and can even get colder then the rest of your arm. Which can feel strange or even uncomfortable.

    When you are touching women this is how you want your touch to be. For them to feel uncomfortable with you NOT touching them. Most of the time they will reinitiate kino themselves and you can still push them away. It's like pushing a cat off of your lap and it keeps trying to jump on you simply because you are pushing it off.

    If you use this push/pull and always start the kino and end it on your terms then very quickly the tension will build up. And I mean all the way into bed. Move her hand to your junk then take it away. How's that for self-control. I'd be happy to answer anymore questions if you feel this helps you. Good luck.

  6. #6
    geshed is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: how do I fark up these sure-fire things!?

    Yeah, sounds like a definite LMR situation. Again, girl in my bed, totally comfortable, probably confused as to why we haven't been fucking.

    I reacted to the resistance by being persistent. It got me a few more makeout sessions but maybe they were out of fucking pity? Like I said, I'd grab her forcibly, lay on a kiss, she would moan and reciprocate and give a playful "stopppp!" which I'd first ignore until it turned into a more serious "no really, stop."

    I kept trying that shit all night. Probably not the best idea, huh?

    (this is not the first girl I've had very similar situations with)


    Quote Originally Posted by PSAM_RST View Post
    Hi geshed,

    It sounds like you encountered some LMR and didn't handle it in the correct Alpha male/game style.

    It was almost a test and I think you failed it by becoming needy and at that point maybe she though she had you and lost interest in the 'chase', so to speak. You had gone from the Alpha male she was attracted to, to the beta, needy male that tried too hard.

    There are some excellent people on here that will be able to explain how to deal with LMR and give you some excellent advice. There are also a lot of threads about it, as it is encountered quite a bit.

    Just thought I would offer my interpretation of your situation.

    Hope it helps. Best wishes.

  7. #7
    BatMan's Avatar
    BatMan is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Re: how do I fuck up these sure-fire things!?

    Yea definitely pick up some tips on handling LMR. But the cool thing is that if your game is solid enough beforehand, you will almost NEVER encounter LMR.

    I can honestly say I have encountered LMR about 3 times since I was 18. 2 of them I passed and the 3rd I didn't because the girl was half-naked and tried to trap me with the "Are we together" card and my ego kicked in and blurted out "No". She was weird lol.

    But I will tell you that when my kino is just right and flows smoothly, they either follow my lead when I initiate things with no reisistance OR (even better) they actually force themselves on me to the point where I can't even get away.

    I'm glad that this opened up some options for you and hopefully will help you next time when escalating.


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