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  1. #1
    The Blind Vulture's Avatar
    The Blind Vulture is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    Hello everyone, i was wondering if you guys could help me figure out what me and some friends did wrong
    the other night, i have a good guess but im not sure.

    We were at this bar and we sitted next to this 2 girls, an 8.5 and a 6.5 or so. The 8.5 had her back against us
    so i decided to use the opener with the other girl that was in a good position (to my rigth, sitting in the
    same direction i was sitting), i used a couple openers, the first one didnt have too much impact, but the
    second one did the trick. Im a real newbie at this so from what i read and researched i tried the most
    original opener using a situational one, in this case i told her to steal a slice of pizza for me from another
    table that was nearby. She laughed and told me "tell you what me and my friend are going outside for a bit
    to grab a smoke, while we are gone sit where i am and you can steal it yourself", i insisted abit telling her that
    they will never notice, she laughed again and told us to watch their stuff while they were out. (This was a compliance on her part, but to refuse to watch over stuff is just plain mean at least thats what i think)

    Once they left i sitted on the chair the 8.5 was sitting, and turned it so it was facing both tables, when
    they came back they sitted the 2 of them next 2 each other, i used this as an excuse and mopved the chair
    so i was facing them, and procceded to join the tables, so we had a good circle where everyone was
    facing each other.

    We talked for a while, we were all having a good time. After some time they got up to smoke again, thats why
    after a few minutes passed i asked a friend to sit where i was sitting, and went to the bathroom, i tried to
    time it rite so when i came back it looked like my friend stole my spot while i was gone ,so the only place i could sit was next to one of the girls (the 6.5), there i started
    using kino slowly step by step, i got as close as to talking in her ear with my face touching hers for some
    seconds, however i think i used compliance abit too much, she gave me a nickname wich was kinda girly, i
    laughed about it and told her "no way your calling me like that, i want a nickname thast more manly" another
    example would be that she asked me if she could have a drink of my beer and i told her always smiling
    "no way go get your own beer!" she then hitted me playfully in my arm then i told her "im just kidding you can
    have abit", i tought i was doing well enough, but with no reason the girl switched her body position and faced one of my friends and started talking to him, like giving me the cold shoulder or something.

    I didnt overreact, i figured it was a test to see if i tried to get her attention again, wich i didnt, i jsut started talking to her friend that was kinda quiet, she appreciated the interest and faced me with her body and got closer
    when she was talking, but it was kinda weird cause her friend was between us, so my kino was all messed up
    could only do light kino but nothing more than that, i also used anchor when she laughed and what not. I told
    her to come closer so we could talk better since her friend was in between. She said ok but instead of
    coming closer they just went to smoke again.

    When they come back, the 8.5 didnt sit down she just stood
    there next to the table, the 6.5 did sit down next to me. Thats when i got confused i dont know why i shoulda just made a move on the 6.5 but i got nervous because i didnt knew if they were about to leave or if i did something wrong with the 8.5, this killed my mood and made me lose my cool, i pretty much choked, the 6.5 said like 2 or 3 times that she was sleepy, wasnt sure if it was like a signal saying that i should do something fast or that she was bored, i tried talking to her abit but it was in vain i lost the edge and was just doing light rapport to kill time.

    I know its a pain in the arse to read WOT but i tried to be specific. Would appreciate any critics on what
    i should have done or things i could have done better. For the record all this thing from start to end lasted
    around 2 hours.

    For anyone that took the bother to reading all this thanks alot!

  2. #2
    swerve's Avatar
    swerve is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    Dude this is good stuff!

    I read through it and it wasnt long or anything.

    But why you didnt number close at least. I get you got thrown put of your mindset but since these chicks were kickin it with you guys for 2hra.. You could of gotten at least one #.


    If you did than you GO VULTURE!

  3. #3
    topgunningit's Avatar
    topgunningit is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    First off, you have to know your target. These targets were playing games from beginning to end. If you played your game right you could have scored.
    Read up on this: My observation about women and other guys out in the field

    #1. What you did wrong was this, not using direct game. When she said to watch over her stuff she was testing you. Remember women can read men really well especially when it comes to emotions. She read that you was a nice guy and you was going to watch over her stuff.

    You should have told her she owed you for watching her stuff/its going to cost her for you to do it, but do it in a playful way that way you go straight into soft kino.

    #2. You never approach the girl you like you give her little to no attention while you approach the set in this case the HB6. You need to realize that HB8 is the alpha of her group and she knows she is better looking and act as if she is special you need to take her down a notch. Using negs to ignoring her a bit.

    #3. She approach your wing/friend to play head games with you. What she did was test your frame, to see if was going to crack and you certainly did. Keep your frame strong.

    #4. The reason she gave you a girly nickname is because she has no respect for you. I remember meet 5 girls 4 months ago, we played a game of "Who do you look like". I will be honest I thought these girls was going to say I look like some weird mutant thing, but they actually picked a A-list actor and said they found that guy 'hot'. That showed me that they held my value at the highest because my game was good all the way.

    #5. When they went to smoke they actually went to talk about the scene. You need to realize that women who is part of a set get feedback from their girlfriends if the guy is worthy of attention, k-close, n-close or even f-close. If the set says 'no' the guy cannot close. In this case they didnt like your rapport and your DHV was too low. So they basically talked about you when they went outside.

    #6. The HB8 knew you liked her but she gave her friend the Hb6 to you because she didnt think your value (attraction) was good enough for her, thats why she kept standing thats why her trust level changed because your rapport was pretty bad. The Hb6 liked you because your value was still somewhat high up there for her so she forgave your weak game because truthfully she more than likely hardly gets any game from guys, her friend more than likely gets all the love from guys. So she is enjoying it while it last. The HB6 came back and sat beside you because she liked you. When she implied she was bored she obviously meant you wasnt entertaining enough as in you wasnt doing anything that excited her. So your value slowly went down as a stock on the stock market.

    What you should have done to close was pull the Hb6 out of her chair and carry her somewhere to change the mood. Then you tell her exactly what you want and what you want her to do. Pretty much use direct game: 'Go hard or go home'.

    Lastly, 2 hours is wayyy too long. 30 mins is too long. In order to keep your value it needs to be 15 mins or less. Only way it gets long is if you building rapport with a huge set say of 4 girls or more and you need to gain the trust of all especially the alpha female. Then it might be 30 to 45 mins.
    But always aim for the close whether it be k-close and n-close or n-close and k-close.
    ------------------------------------

  4. #4
    haterplayer is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    My personal opinion - and this disagrees with a previos poster is it went south when this happened:

    "however i think i used compliance abit too much, she gave me a nickname wich was kinda girly, i
    laughed about it and told her 'no way your calling me like that, i want a nickname thast more manly'

    That's where you screwed it up.. you should have owned that nick-name like it was Elvis or something. Denying the nickname and asking for a more manly one an indication of a lack of confidence on your part.

    Let's say the name was Tinker Bell. You should have said something like "yes I've tinkered a bell or two how about yours?" Do that with a playful smile - but do it with confidence and kinda lean in after or as you're saying it and you would have been in..

  5. #5
    topgunningit's Avatar
    topgunningit is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    Not really. It was a test from the start. Since he and his friends sat at the bar. I met some playful girls and ones who play games with guys just for fun and one thing I have learnt is that when a girl likes a guy or consider a guy hot such things never cross their thoughts. He shouldnt put himself in a position to wear an insult\frame wrecker. Now he has to be on the defense when he should have been on the offense to begin with. I will use a comment my friend said once:

    HB: 'You should wear soft pink'
    Friend: 'Baby look at me, I said look at me, do you really think a guy like me look good in pink? I am too strong for that colour and I am sure you need a strong man in your life not thinker bell' (while smiling).


    That HB looked at my friend as if she wanted to f-close him right then and there.

    Quote Originally Posted by haterplayer View Post
    My personal opinion - and this disagrees with a previos poster is it went south when this happened:

    "however i think i used compliance abit too much, she gave me a nickname wich was kinda girly, i
    laughed about it and told her 'no way your calling me like that, i want a nickname thast more manly'

    That's where you screwed it up.. you should have owned that nick-name like it was Elvis or something. Denying the nickname and asking for a more manly one an indication of a lack of confidence on your part.

    Let's say the name was Tinker Bell. You should have said something like "yes I've tinkered a bell or two how about yours?" Do that with a playful smile - but do it with confidence and kinda lean in after or as you're saying it and you would have been in..
    ------------------------------------

  6. #6
    The Blind Vulture's Avatar
    The Blind Vulture is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    Thanks alot for the answer guys!On my defence i did told them they should give us a reward for taking care of the things, BUT i did this before we look after their stuff so it didnt have the same impact if i would have said it when they first asked us.

    The openers ,i used them on the HB6, but the only neg i threw at the HB8 was just not talking to her and kinda ignoring her. At one moment it gave me the impression she was sad like during the rapport no one talked to her the whole group was talking to the HB6 and the HB8 well i dont know it just gave me pity, maybe a trap, not sure. I have to stop being the nice guy on this things else i will not be able to properly use negs ever.

    Another thing i saw was the HB6 interrupting the HB8 constantly wich i found rude and a sign of lack of confidence on her part, like maybe trying to show too much value.

    Taking the HB6 some place is what i should have done, but i thought the HB8 was going to stop us halfway cause she was going to be left all alone with my 2 friends, im still not sure why i thought that, from the logic point of view the HB6 can do whatever the hell she wants and i shouldnt think too much of what the other HBS are thinking is just putting obstacles in my way that dont exist.

    I want to know if its not a good idea to play the game with the 2 girls, doesnt it make me look like kinda desperate or like i give up easily or something?, when i talked to the HB8 instead of showing nerve that i didnt care that she was talking to me friend it played against me i shoulda just talked to my other friend for abit and then include the HB8 in the conversation. Let me tell you being in a table doing all this things its a pain in the arse, all the more the reason why i should have taken the HB6 someplace else.

    I messed up with the emotional part, im not sure how to work on that yet, i think i did wrong to try to enter it when i wasnt close to the target, and all could hear what im saying, this breaks any possible bond i can have, since most people dont like to appear vulnverable, and more when theres 2 other guys listening, im not using emotional talk on group talk ever again, lesson learned.

    The nickanme, when she told me that i figured it was an obvius atack like u said i didnt showed good value, the openers i threw them with a good time lapse between them, like after the first one i used the second one 15 minutes later. Like trying not to seem too needy or too interested.

    2 hours is way to damn long, not to mention the atraction dies out pretty fast or at least thats what i saw, i dont want to diminish my friends but they are as bad as this as i am, maybe not bad, but they are too good guys and show too much respect and dont flirt enough. Im helping them on the go, this is not only for me but for them too, i know they could use a few tips, not braggin here since i need some tips myself...

  7. #7
    haterplayer is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    'Baby look at me, I said look at me, do you really think a guy like me look good in pink? I am too strong for that colour and I am sure you need a strong man in your life not thinker bell'

    I think we agree in the main that being on defense is not good game but how is the above quote LESS defensive exactly? If someone called me a Tinker Bell I laugh it off because the notion is completely absurd and she knows I'm confident no matter what - but the guy in this anecdote sounds like he's overselling his manliness.. for me at least it's better to allow the attack to pass through me and turn it on her.

    But it's all context I suppose. I think perhaps a guy with fewer natural assetts might be better off with that "look at me - I'm too cool for pink" - but a fully developed player would introduce himself as Tinker Bell wearing a pink suit and walk away with the 10.. But in this context I think you're likely correct.

    Good luck with your next attempt - practice, practice, etc.

  8. #8
    topgunningit's Avatar
    topgunningit is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Need help, good approach and atraction bad ending, what did i do wrong?

    It is less defensive because you flip it to your own advantage. In other terms, you take lemon and make lemonade. She test your frame and you held firm like an anchor and check her. She will in turn never say crap about you ever again.

    When you laugh it off you assume cockiness, weakness and agreeance. Question is why do you want to be ThinkerBell why not flip it and be James Bond? You allowing the HB to dictate your overall being. Thats an absolute no no.

    Why you think politicians study/take advise on body language? When someone accuse you of something you dont show any weakness by laughing or shrugging it off. What you do is stand firm and you look the person straight in the eye and you reassure them (Just like what Bill Clinton did) that no they are sadly mistaken that could not/will never be me.

    Thats what a real alpha does he navigate the ship not let the seas tell him where to go.

    You need to understand body language. 'Laughing it off'

    Quote Originally Posted by haterplayer View Post
    'Baby look at me, I said look at me, do you really think a guy like me look good in pink? I am too strong for that colour and I am sure you need a strong man in your life not thinker bell'

    I think we agree in the main that being on defense is not good game but how is the above quote LESS defensive exactly? If someone called me a Tinker Bell I laugh it off because the notion is completely absurd and she knows I'm confident no matter what - but the guy in this anecdote sounds like he's overselling his manliness.. for me at least it's better to allow the attack to pass through me and turn it on her.

    But it's all context I suppose. I think perhaps a guy with fewer natural assetts might be better off with that "look at me - I'm too cool for pink" - but a fully developed player would introduce himself as Tinker Bell wearing a pink suit and walk away with the 10.. But in this context I think you're likely correct.

    Good luck with your next attempt - practice, practice, etc.
    ------------------------------------


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