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  1. #1
    dutchmarc1976 is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Relationship vs friend zone with Perfect 10 after having sex

    Hey guys!

    I have this really interesting yet sticky situation I'd like your advise on.
    Last July, I was talking on a dating website to a beautiful woman (aged 33) who lives nearby. We talked for hours and hours for a couple of days, and suddenly she never logged back in. I dated some other women in the meantime, and then, now 3 weeks ago, logged back in at that same dating site. She was online as well, after 3 monts or so, and sent me a PM.

    We started chatting again, for hours and hours, and she told me she had gone out with a guy for several weeks and the moment she broke off with him, he went complete mad. This guy stalked her, cried in front of her, yelled at her, even told her she sexually abused him (??) because she apparently didn't have feelings but "went for him anyway", and even threatened to kill himself if she didn't want him. That really scared her, but at that exact time we were chatting online he suddenly posted on Facebook to have found a new woman, so she was a bit at ease.

    I comforted her about it, told her she did nothing wrong, she felt comfortable with me, I asked her out on a date and she said yes. She gave me her mobile and asked me if I would be online on the dating site before we had the first date the week after. I told her I probably wouldn't be out there.

    Next day she whatsapped me, I replied, but kept things brief. Next day again, told her I didn't have time because of a meeting. Next day again, but that time we had a long talk over whatsapp. Communication was beautiful, really open and warm, she posted some photos which already looked good. Invited me to Facebook, saw even more photos which were awesome, and then we had the first date.

    Rang her doorbell and she looked even better in real: a perfect 10, dark-haired, blue-eyed, perfectly dressed, a model. We walked to a pub, chitchatting, and we sat down to have a drink. Lots of guys looking at her, but she only focused on me. I took a beer, she moved to sit next to me, and we stayed chatting for over an hour or two. Then I wanted another beer, but I couldn't because I was driving. She then offered it would be okay to sleep over, but she laughed "but on the couch mister!". I agreed and drank some more, she also had 1 glass of wine. Later on we walked to her house, went inside, and talked some more. We played a few app games.

    Then she asked me where I wanted to sleep because she was exhausted. I said: well, in bed with you would be best wouldnt it? She agreed, she gave me a toothbrush and we went to her bed. Tried to kiss her, but she wanted to sleep. Then she crawled up to me, and we did kiss, were fooling around a bit, but she really felt tired and sick because of the one glass she drank. So I didn't try to force things and went to sleep.

    Next morning, she gave me a robe to wear. She made breakfast and suddenly, when I went to her kitchen told me "I made up my find, I want to be friends with you". First I tried to be cool about it, then we talked for an hour or so. Went home, she kissed me on the mouth. And again. And again.

    Apped her when I got back, thanking her for the nice date.
    Next day, strangely enough we talked for hours and hours over whatsapp. Next day, same thing. We spent so much time together apping, it wasn't even possible for her to date someone else.

    I then asked her out again, to come over to my house. She agreed, but "as friends". I said: no can do! I want you, I have feelings for you, I'm not settling for just friends, that's my position. I was 100% open and honoust to her.

    She came at my house, gave me three kisses on the cheek. She told me to relax because she felt I was bouncing up and down. After about 10 minutes I relaxed. We made dinner, and kept on talking. For an hour, two hours, 5 hours, 7 hours, while I was continuously trying to get fysical contact by cuddling up. That she allowed. The talks were about "relationship versus friends". But I was getting nowhere, I thought.

    Then it was so late at night, about 04.15h that she agreed to stay over. Gave her a toothbrush, went to bed together, and again she wanted to sleep. But then I said: 'Hey you..", kissed her, and suddenly she wanted to have sex.

    She let go completely, hooked up for more than 3 hours, sun was already shining and when she looked at the clock, she wanted to sleep.

    Next morning, she said she was confused. Wanted to be friends. But then invited me to take a shower together. Then I was confused and nothing happened inside the shower.

    Then I invited her on a third date, she agreed, that was yesterday. We went abroad to a big city, for clothes shopping. I make a lot of money, she doesn't, but also doesn't accept me to pay stuff for her. So I bought just clothes for myself. We sat down at a bar, had a few drinks, she told me it felt as a relationship and it feels good, but that it's not a relationship. She talked openly about sex with men earlier in life, so did I about the women I've been with (a lot, I'm trying NOT to be a pua and would like her to marry me if I had the chance, but even this year alone I've had sex with 10 women, and every time I try it to be a relationship, but don't feel enough, with this girl I do, and I told her .... well about each day we talk).

    Then she wanted to go home with me, and said it would be nice to order food at my house. I did, we ate together, she wanted to see a movie with me. Pulled out a nice one, watched the whole movie, it was night again, but suddenly she wanted to go home.

    Told her I wanted her to stay, but she didn't. She wants to be friends, she likes me a lot. She said she tried out the sex to see if she would wake up afterwards to find herself in love. But she didn't. She said she would like to fall in love with me, but she didn't.

    Now, she says she doesn't want to have sex with any guy anymore, unless it's in a relationship. She wants to feel in love, to feel "this guy is my man, that's the one". Until then, no sex for her.
    Even though litteraly hundreds of guys are chasing her, she said "it's like they smell it I'm not into having cheap sex! Why do all guys think I'm miss Perfect?! I don't look that good!
    With me, I'm special, I'm a great friend, so no sex anymore with me: just friends. She also wants to "learn" from me, feels I'm capable of achieving exceptional things in the world.

    I replied: but I cannot turn my feelings off like you can't turn them on.
    How on earth am I to allow her to date other men, while talking to me about those other men when I'd like her to be my woman. But she still wants to be friends.

    She offered to wait in dating men until I found another beautiful woman, in the mean time I wouldn't have to worry about her dating other men. She even wants to be friends with me and the woman I'll date after her, and then wanting to be friends with us both.

    WTF?!

    Then I got up, went to the kitchen to get some tea. Walked back with tea for both, sat down between her knees (after getting her a new cup of tea) looked horny in her eyes, gave her a wild / manly look, kissed her on the mouth, she kissed me back, looked horny, but then I sat down besides her. I just wanted to see if "alpha male" still worked. It did.

    But then she wanted to drive home, I had a drink and wanted to get cigarettes, asked her to drive me to a hotel to get some and then back to my place for me to sleep. She agreed, she waited inside of the car, when a drunk guy approached her car to ask her if she wanted to take him to the city centre (it was about 03.00h at night then). She didn't, the guy was trying to chitchat, I went outside with my cigarettes, looked the guy deep in the eyes (a bit angry), I said nothing, the guy got intimidated, backed-away, I got in her car, and we drove-off.

    Afterwards I was feeling completely rubbish. Apped her to call me when she got home, which she did. I talked over the phone about ... bullsh1t, trying to think of a way to convince her to be with me, but I failed.
    Another hour lon talk, till 05.00h in the morning. Then hung up to sleep, she did so as well.

    Apped her today again, to apologize for a nice date gone down the drain.
    She was okay about it, felt bad because I felt bad. Confirmed she didn't want to have sex with any guy until she felt in love and was in a relationship. She didn't want to "lure guys into sex", wants "to fall in love", which never happend in a relationship, just 2 times before but not with a relationship, and just once with one guy that she broke off with because he wanted to sterilize himself not talking to her about it.

    Again said she'd love to fall in love with me, because with me everything is great, she tried to fall in love, but it just didn't work out for her.

    Then I suggested we should let go off the "relationship" thing / issues, it's only been 2 weeks (although non-stop talking / apping) and just 3 dates (that all lasted about 20 hours), and just see how it went, maybe if we wanted to have sex that that would be okay because we're only human, but now she's even more hard-headed that we should not have sex anymore, although it was very nice, but no more sex with a relationship and she just doesn't feel like that.

    Then she ended the chat with: X.

    =>
    How on earth can I turn this thing around? It feels like a relationship lost, that's how intensively we're communicating. And I really really like this woman a lot. I'd love her to be mine.

  2. #2
    dutchmarc1976 is offline Aspiring PUA
    Points: 111, Level: 2
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 39
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    100 Experience Points
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    Default Re: Relationship vs friend zone with Perfect 10 after having sex

    update: tonight we whatsapped again for some time until she needed to sleep, and she again ended the chat conversation with 'sleep tight, X'.
    So all in all, although I feel something's different now since yesterday night, the contact is still there.

    About four years ago, I read Neil Strauss' books and articles, front to back. I know about his pick-up strategies and - despite the fact that I do it completely the other way around because the strategies applied in the books simply went completely wrong for me, and by doing it my own way I date gorgeous women as much and often as I like.

    I'm a natural smooth talker, not particularly successful with approaching women "in the open", but especially at online dating sites girls / women like me and as soon as I call them by phone they love my voice and want to go out with me. At those real dates, it's 50-50.
    Having sex is not an issue for me: I feel confident with my looks and talks, I'm smarter than most women, I'm a nice guy and "good at closing" when I'm one-on-one.

    But THIS girl is really special to me, because she's nice, honest, open, warm and loving. She really appreciates me as a warm and special friend, plus she's intimidated by the ex-guy who claimed she sexually abused him and lured him into sex. She now said "you are too nice a friend to spoil by having more sex with, I'm not going to ruin that for my own pleasure, plus I don't want to give you false hope.". WTF???

    I'm trying to get out of the "friend zone" and into a relationship with her, but the direct approach just doesn't work with her because she doesn't feel she's in love with me. Stating that she has to make a choice (sexual relationship or nothing at all) would probably make her go leave me alone so that's also not an option.

    Here's what I think myself how to solve it:
    - if I would suddenly stop communicating with her, as a longshot for her to "miss me", she would definitely understand it as a trick. Or she would think it to be real, and decide to leave me alone for a while because apparently I needed some room. That strategy just wouldn't work with her.

    - so I'm thinking to move away from the heat about "sex & relationship" and just chitchat, joke along, and avoid the topic completely (for a while). Because the harder she feels I'm pushing, the stronger she feels to correct it and all the romance is completely gone. I need to steer away from that, temporally.

    - next I think we need to go out and do something fun together, but this time, I'll keep it short, keep it casual, fun, but no kissing. She said she has a "gaydar" (a radar to spot gay guys), so she probably also has a "there he goes again for sex - radar". I need to shut down that radar first, no more alarmbells going off, because everything I try is spotted from miles away.

    - she'll then probably start to wonder why I suddenly do NOT try to get her into bed, why I did not make a move. That'll either make her feel comfortable ("Ahh! Finally, we're friends now! Now we can continue to do stuff!"), or make her feel a bit insecure ("Is there another woman now? Why did he not talk to me about her then?"). Either way, I'm in charge again then.

    - Next part is very tricky. Either she'll start to try to hear me out on other women, which gives me a chance for a quick nag here and there.
    Or she will not and try to expand the friendship. And even worse: try to hook me up with other women as a "female wingman". Because in her mind, she wants me to be happily in love, she's trying to help me, even coach me to get another Perfect 10 lover.

    - I don't want to "trick her" because I respect her. I don't want to "play games" by faking I'm her best friend, getting her to join me for a week-long holiday abroad, sleeping in the same hotel bed because she feels comfortable with me. That would feel disrespectful to her, to take advantage of that situation.

    What I'm after, is that she genuinely falls in love with me. And that's not as easy as "demonstrating value", she already values me. She values me as a "sex animal", she wanted to try that out and she liked it but wasn't in love afterwards. And she values my inner person and values, especially my mind.

    This situation is utterly complex. I'm sorry my story is so long and I feel bad I didn't get a reply from you guys yet despite over 100 views already on this thread. Some of you guys are dating experts. Does anyone have an answer how to solve this? How to win her over?

    I appreciate any response. Thanks in advance.
    M.


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