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Thread: RB - Frame control

  1. #1
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default RB - Frame control

    One thing I’ve pulled together from years of gaming, is that game fundamentally comes down to frame control.

    Frame control is about leading the interaction, whose in control of the set at a given time. If you stay in control you can get away with anything.

    Think of it like this, A girl asks you your age, you answer, she asks what you do, you answer. She’s leading.
    A girl asks your age, you tell her to guess (make her jump through your hoop first). If she says no, now you’ve got a battle of the frames. If she guesses, you’ve taken the frame back. You can reward her by telling her at that point.


    Lets give a good friend zone example – girl says I just want to be friends. Right now, she introduced the frame and she controls it. You can say, sure that’s cool, (you accept her frame). You can say, no I don’t want to just be friends (again – you accepted her frame, you’re working in her world view and fighting it). Or you can change the nature discussion all together, “we are friends, but friends don’t put each other in boxes”. Here you changed the discussion, she wanted rules, she wanted it to be A or B, and you disregarded her rules entirely. You introduced a new frame to the discussion, generally she will accept it.

    Make sense?

    Once you know your value 100%, this becomes natural. You stop appealing and supplicating to everyone else. Frame control is about being alpha. That doesn’t mean you have to be mean, it just means you’re in control.

    I’ll give another example – just last night I was out with some Minneapolis friends. As I was leaving a bar this girl stopped me, “Hey, you need to tell us how old you are”. I could answer directly, I’m 27. No, instead this was an odd question, and they picked me to ask.
    So I turned, “ok you’re going to have to give me some back story first”. Turns out they had a bet going on, (I tend to stand out a little bit), and there was literally money on the table. “RB - Ok, so what did everyone guess?” HB 8.5 – “Noooo!! You have to just tell us then we’ll tell you, give me your ID, I need to see your ID”
    Here – we have a battle of frames. She wants to be in control, if I let her, I’m beta. My chance of getting with her would go down to 0. A confident girl like that knows how to lead an interaction and likes to be in control, she will only respect you if you can hold your own. If you accept her frame, you supplicate and lose.
    RB – “No that easy, you’ve got money on the table here so you have to tell me what you’re thinking”
    HB – “You’re just throwing us off, I mean the hat (beret) and your candy cane (Its holiday time I had a candy cane I was sucking on, turned out to be fun little peacock at the bars)…. We just cant figure you out!
    RB – “Wait wait, so the candy cane is too much for you? Where’s your holiday spirit guys?”


    And the conversation continues. Note that I stayed in control of the interaction. Eventually, I let them see my ID, because they complied with my tests. It was a mixed set, 2 guys, 2 girls, they were all actually pretty cool, had a lot of fun in that conversation.

    A lot of what we take away from indirect game, like mystery method / style life, comes down to tricks we can use to stay in control. It’s meant to reprogram us from the guys who go up to a girl and say, hey – you’re hot. When you do, she’s got you pegged like every other guy hitting on her, and you’re accepting her frame by playing that role. You want to be someone different who can stay in control. You go in with an opinion opener, if she rejects your opener entirely, shes rejected your frame. If you open naturally however and they become responsive, you’re coming up as a genuinely social and confident guy.

    Eventually tho, once you master frame control, you can get away with that. That’s when you start going more direct. You can walk in to a set and say you girls are just too pretty not to talk to (although this is still not always the best option). Only once your frame is strong. Direct game works because its focused on inner game first. You walk in knowing your value. If you have any doubt that you’re the shit, you’re gonna lose. You’re going to get shut out.

    Hot girls are going to shit test you. Giving disqualifiers, giving them hooks, running proper IODs, etc, are all meant to help you control the frame.

    So where do you start? Master inner game. First – body language. Your body language must imbue confidence (http://www.puaforums.com/how-flirt/1...html#post71940). Your body language should not betray any insecurities. You need to stay alpha all the time.

    The rest of it I think comes hand in hand with the rest of your game. As your game gets stronger and better, you’ll begin to wonder why you ever doubted yourself to begin with.

    Just remember, you’re the prize, not her. There are hundreds of girls out on any given night, if she’s a bitch, move on to the next one because she’s not worth your time.
    This is a small post about inner confidence I put up a while ago, related to all of this
    http://www.puaforums.com/how-talk-girls/9441-inner-confidence-wake-up-call.html

    Good luck everyone, I hope this will help you on your path to stronger frame control
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  2. #2
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    Nice post, makes a lot of sense, the candy cane thing is really cool btw :L I realise that's not the focus of the post, but it had to be said :L

    Linking x

  3. #3
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    i love how you dominated that set (the one with the candycane) btw the candycane is pretty bad#ss. i would love to see some more good examples of sets like this one, as i mentioned on the tunes a while back, game all boils down to maintaining a dominant frame. great post

  4. #4
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    Examples? Those I have. I will add an addendum tomorrow. Off to game now

    Biking to the bars... 20 degrees outside... At least Minneapolis bar are worth it
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  5. #5
    SexualSorcerer333 is offline PUA Forums Banned
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    so why didnt you ask for a cut from the pot?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    Examples, as promised (tho a day late)

    Scenario 1

    Roughly a month ago my wing and I saw a 2 set, kept looking over at something and laughing, we had no idea why. They were 8s, fairly dolled up tho.
    *So we approached, ran my makeup opener, didn't really go very far, 60 seconds of banter. *So I threw it out, "ok, really we were just trying to figure out what you guys keep laughing about"
    *Turns out they were Evaluating everyone who came through the door if they were hot or not. *I pulled up a chair and played with them, but they were saying no to some legitimate 9s who were very attractive
    *RB: "serious? *You don't think she's hot"
    *Hb: "no, bla bla"
    *Frame conflict, right now HBs were acting like they were 12s on a 1-10 scale. *They weren't, and If I didn't confront it I was accepting their frame that they were
    *RB: "excuse me?, you're cute and all, but no where near cute enough to be this pretentious"
    *Immediately frame changed and she began appealing to me
    *HB: "I swear im really nice im not pretentious at all once you know me!"

    *Something I woulda never had the balls to say if I wasn't completely secure in my frame

    Ok, I didn't touch on it much above, but another option is to take control of their frame

    Scenario 2

    *Texting yesterday hb9, i sent a little bunny text wigit
    RB:
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (o)_(o)

    Does this look like a bunny?

    Hb: *Sure. Is this what you've been working on all day?

    RB:*Umm.... Yes... It's a, project for um... Art class yea
    *Are you going to pretend to be more productive?

    Hb:*I'm at work therefore I am being more productive. I'm super busy checking out cute med students.

    RB: *Ooh did you get any numbers for me?

    And the conversation continued from there

    Scenario 3: (2 hb 6s, just opened to be social)
    Out with my wings on game day 2, maybe 15 PUAs out after practicing
    I opened a 2 set with makeup opener, "hey we were having a debate and bla bla bla"
    * Girls gave a funny face but played along
    RB: ok so why are you giving me wierd looks

    Hb6: well another guy just talked to us the exact same way, said he was having a debate, something about getting a dog. *Actually he's right back there, is this some new thing or what?

    RB: *oh Covert? *Yea he's a friend of mine. *Actually I have a group of guys and we work on conversational dynamics, trying to show other people better ways to go talk and introduce themselves, we've found it's better to start conversations with people by asking questions so you don't come up and just hit on them, I'm just out to be social this evening. *So what do you think about the approach?

    HBs: gave feedback, said they actually liked it, and eventually said how cool they think it is that groups like this exist*

    I pulled them back in to my frame about being out to be social, or rather maintained control even tho they already had been opened a moment ago with a very similar opener

    This happens to me more and more frequently now, but being in a strong frame helps to stay in control of the conversation. *I wanna say this has happened 4 times in the past 2 months, and every time I kept it in control

    I have other examples but this has taken forever to write on my iPhone so... We are gonna end there
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  7. #7
    meteora's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    this is awesome, i love good examples and i think that alot of mpua's don't give enough of them. reading word for word convorsation helps me to "see how its done" witch then helps me to improve my game. if you would post some more examples it would be realy awesome thanks

  8. #8
    LockDown's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    Man RB... u are on fire last few days! Your articles are dynamite.

    I too love candy cane,s to peacock. But a beret... wow... if u can rock that you are hardcore!

    Frames are something i had trouble with for the longest. Your post pretty much hits all the major points. I hate it when girls try to rob your frame even tho they like u. Maybe their scared that someone can control their frame... and also afraid that they like it lol. Frame control to them is like a defensive/reflexive action.

    I had a really bad frame control experience once. Girl mentions a beach, i mention the boardwalk...she says theydont have one. I have to now defend my knowledge and experience. I second guessed myself and that was it. And it turns out that they do have one. She was messing with me just to see my reaction!
    Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.
    Oscar Wilde


  9. #9
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    Thanks guys! Lockdown did you check the body language post? Just did that Saturday

    I've decided to finally pull together an e-book, and once I pulled together an outline I realized there were several topics I hadn't written about yet

    So you can expect a few more posts in the next week on different things

    And I'll try to get around to more examples in the next few days
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  10. #10
    daltonbrayall is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: RB - Frame control

    just wanna say, the way you controlled the frame with the girl who had already been opened with the same approach was class and i wanted to give ya props on that. i can honestly admit i would not have handled it half as well, and i def. wouldnt have been gutsy enough to call out the girl in the first scenario, though i wouldnt have let her keep putting herself on a pedastal like that either.
    If i get a guy some a$$, he gets it for a day; if i teach him how to get it for himself, he's tappin forever


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