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Thread: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

  1. #1
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    I began writing this as a follow up on solid frame control, but it got so long and so ingrained with inner game I decided it needs to be its own thread. Please read part 1 here http://www.puaforums.com/game/17574-...html#post72709 – and the comments included talk on more examples. This thread heavily covers inner game, and more pieces of frame control.

    Good frame control can essentially be divided into 2 basic parts.

    First – you need strong inner game, you cannot doubt your own worth or value. You must know inside that you are alpha.

    Second – you need to know how to respond. (I will come back to this)

    My tagline – “Never need Praise, Sympathy, or Approval” was my mantra for years until it was ingrained in my head.

    You don’t need other people’s praise or approval if you know your own value. If you’re insecure and seek their approval it becomes clear, its completely beta.

    Sympathy? Same concept.

    Remember telling your parents how good you did on something, or showing off something you made? Or remember showing off your new car to your friends? You’re seeking their approval, and you’re handing them the frame. You naturally give them a certain power over you because you want validation from them.

    If you tell your friends – Hey, you gotta check out my new car. That’s attention seeking, approval seeking, it’s beta. If its parked outside and they’re like, hey who’s car is that? Then you can tell them. “A rich man doesn’t need to tell you he’s rich” (I believe that’s quoted from the game).

    When I got my pilots license, you’re dang right I was proud. But I was proud because I knew I could get and do anything I wanted to, not because I depended upon any external validation. Don’t get me wrong, I told people, I told everyone, but not in any way that was seeking their approval. It was in a way of cool stories of what I’ve been up to, and generally after they asked.

    Let’s put this specific one in to a pickup context – Yes, I’m a pilot, as a hobby because my main job is accounting (and my second hobby is pickup), but when people ask what I do for fun I rarely tell them. If you brag about what makes you unique, its abundantly clear you’re seeking approval. I don’t need to tell them to show them how cool I am. Because I am secure in myself my confidence is imbued with everything I do. Rather, if I really like a girl, after 3 or 4 dates I bring her on one of the coolest dates she’s ever had, and surprise the crap out of her.

    Ever tell someone how bad your day was, and they top your story to tell you theirs is worse? Sympathy seeking, from both parties. In reality the one here who says yea I understand that must have been tough, is the one maintaining the frame. The one who gives sympathy holds the higher ground.

    You want to be the one giving approval, and offering sympathy to others, the one they come to for approval, never seeking it from them.

    I know when I was younger I was always the one seeking approval, until I realized I didn’t need it. Even after I understood this, it took me many years to really master it to the point that it’s now simply a part of me. (Mind you I still have AFC days once in a blue moon).

    You can share stories with other people without seeking their approval.

    The more value you have, the more people want your approval, your sympathy, your praise.

    When it comes down to it? I’m very self-righteous, yes – I think I’m better than people. Every goal I’ve set for myself I’ve achieved: I’m well educated, great career, fun hobbies. Back in high school I was heavy set, I committed to working out and lost 55lbs and kept it off. I enjoy my life and I love where I’ve come to. If you don’t – fix it. If you do, stop doubting yourself.

    Now being self-righteous does not mean you’re self centered. Better than everyone doesn’t mean you don’t care about them. I care about everyone in my life. I do so many things for my mom and my friends, I’m there for her and them to pick them up and wipe the dust off them when they need support, even if they weren’t there for me.

    Work on your inner game. Know your own value. Stop seeking approval, attention, sympathy, validation.

    Insecure people need validation to know their own worth. When it comes down to it, almost all the 9s and 10s out there are insecure people at the core. They have a tough outer shell that depends upon validation. If they don’t get uplifted by other people, they get incredibly insecure. That’s why and how negs work so well – as soon as one person points out their flaws it breaks them down to the insecure little girl they are. Since you were the only one strong enough to point out their flaws, you must have high value, so they want your approval back immediately.

    If you are 100% confident, negs and teases don’t affect you. At all. If you are unaffected by what other people say, if you really eventually don’t care about their opinion of you, you can get away with whatever you want.

    Part 2 – Comes down to knowing how to respond.

    First and foremost, never become defensive. If you have to explain yourself to someone, you hand them the power.

    I promised some more examples, so I’ll add them here.

    Saturday I was in a 4 set winging for my buddy, I was trying to distract the other 3, one guy and 2 girls, in reality I was having some issues trying to win over the guy, but that boils down to how the set was opened and I’m not going to address that here. So I asked the guy how everything was going or something, I don’t recall

    Guy : “Good. Say, you got something on your face there” (pointing by his eyebrow)

    (I have an eyebrow piercing) Now I have a few options, but here I chose to take HIS frame away from him. I did so because I was completely unaffected by what he said, and I knew my value was more than his. I also kinda decided to amog him, which is meaner than I usually am.

    Red Baron: “Oh this?” (I grabbed my eyebrow ring and tugged on it a bit, and laughed)
    RB: (Patting him on the shoulder) “Yea thanks for letting me know really appreciate that” (Smiling)

    RB: “Oh, say you got something right there kinda…” (Rubbing under my nose, he had a horrible little mustache) “Kinda like a little pedophile stache….”

    Guy: “Well at least I can shave mine”

    RB: (Laughing and patting him on the back again) “Yes, yes you can my man”.

    As explained here, kino is 100% alpha, shows you aren't afraid of someone
    http://www.puaforums.com/how-pick-up...html#post63332

    That was it. He got defensive, I maintained the higher ground. He immediately turned away and tried to get in a conversation with the other girl at the set, while I continued talking to his girlfriend and kino-ing her.

    If I would have told him, “Oh girls like it”, “Yea I can take it off”, etc, that would have been beta. You never need to explain yourself to other people.

    If he were a girl trying to tease me, I would have smiled said “Shut up, you like it"

    The key? NEVER GET DEFENSIVE

    Second key? Asking questions is a fantastic way to avoid answering one, and to get in control of the frame and interactions. (I refer back to what I put in my first frame control post – when they girls asked me my age)

    In general, if a girl asks your age, you tell her to guess.

    For other questions, or even rude statements, get them to clarify – so why do you think that? Etc.

    Ok, one last example. More a scenario –

    Was downtown, my wing Covert opened a 2 set, I went and engaged with him after a minute. Talked with the girls for 10 minutes, they were friendly, nice to talk to, both married. Told them we’ll come back and talk to them later.

    Later on in the evening, I’m out helping another newbie Professor practice. He really needed more warm ups, so, I figure hey, those girls were friendly, I can pull them in.

    Hold on professor –

    I approach the 2 set – “Hey, I’m out here helping a few friends learn how to approach and talk to girls, do you mind letting my buddy run a few practice rounds and you can help see how he did?”

    Girls – “Sure!”

    Professor approaches – Tried makeup opener. We critique.

    I explain the basis of an opinion opener, the premise of starting a conversation. The girls agreed that those would work much better to start a conversation. They help professor pick an opener that would work better for him.

    Professor leaves the set, comes back in with his new opener. The girls critique the opener and help tweak it to make it flow quicker and smoother!

    Professor tries again, not bad. Now I explain kino to the girls and professor again, how it is a social tool for building social connections between people. I take Professor’s hand and place it on the shoulder of the girl, run an example of kino. Girls agree that he should be touching them lightly to engage them more.

    Professor tries again. And again. And again.

    We never had a conflict of frames here. They accepted mine off the bat. Fact is, that approach took me a lot of frame control to even consider, but you do everything you do with confidence and people rarely question it.

    I have 2 more examples where I’ve opened someone who had been opinion opened earlier in the night, but they are both very similar to what I posted on the first frame control post.

    I hope I’m not missing anything. Enjoy and game on
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  2. #2
    meteora's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    this is great and actualy helped me with my big problem (getting amoged by "naturals") i don't think anyone has written a comprehensive guide to amoging, but this is close to what i was looking for.
    thanks
    METEORA

  3. #3
    LockDown's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    I can see how this topic is a bit overwhelming. Seems like u can go into any pickup aspect through this.

    You are speaking truth man. Since ive been working on this aspect recently, i feel it reinvigorated my game with long time female friends. I can kinda see what frame they have me in now. And since im better at controlling it, they are changing their perception of me. Fascinating. Lol
    Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.
    Oscar Wilde


  4. #4
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    Meteora - I thought of a few other ways I could have responded here in the first example.

    So, in my situation, I directly took his frame from him.

    Alternatively, I could have challenged his frame to him, ignored the question entirely and turned it around on him, something like "So... that what you do? You tease people? Is this some sort of a power test or... what exactly?"

    Challenge his entire premise and get him to explain himself to me. (This is something I do use frequently, its incredibly adaptable)

    Third option - I could have ignored it and just turned and teased him to the other girls "Seriously, Is he always like this?" (Shotgun neg to reduce his value, and maintain control of the frame and discussion) Problem was it was kind of loud and difficult to work in that dynamic.

    Also I felt some hostility and I kinda wanted to directly break him down, so I instinctively went with option A.
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  5. #5
    meteora's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    thanks again rb, your the man! i just never fully understood amoging and this has helped clear things up, now i realize that amogging is all about just using the same skill set that we use to attract wemon to get other men to try and seek our validation.
    thanks agian!
    METEORA

  6. #6
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    Quote Originally Posted by meteora View Post
    thanks again rb, your the man! i just never fully understood amoging and this has helped clear things up, now i realize that amogging is all about just using the same skill set that we use to attract wemon to get other men to try and seek our validation.
    thanks agian!
    METEORA
    Very well put! Although they might be too proud to seek our validation, if you can put them on the defensive you win. Same value and approach
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  7. #7
    xavier's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    I don't think anyone can put it in such easy and comprihensive terms Great job RB.
    P.S: tell virgil to put you're threaads in the newbie guide
    "The world will never change much less become what you want it to be. The only thing that can change is you. Face your fears, grow stronger and become what you want to be."
    _Xavier.

  8. #8
    LockDown's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    Was thinking about this last night a bit.

    When a woman challenges your frame, it means she has been thinking about u... or talking with her friends about u. So, in the very least, you can use that angle to keep your frame.

    As in... "Man! You must think (or dream) about me often!" Or something similar.

    This can be an easier way for beginners to learn framing. The only danger is responding if/ when she says "U wish" or "no way" to the above.
    Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.
    Oscar Wilde


  9. #9
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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    This is actual gold. It clears a lot of questions and helps tons too. Can't thank you enough, RB!
    "To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." - Oscar Wilde

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    Default Re: RB - Frame Control 2 and Inner Game

    Quote Originally Posted by LockDown View Post
    Was thinking about this last night a bit.

    When a woman challenges your frame, it means she has been thinking about u... or talking with her friends about u. So, in the very least, you can use that angle to keep your frame.

    As in... "Man! You must think (or dream) about me often!" Or something similar.

    This can be an easier way for beginners to learn framing. The only danger is responding if/ when she says "U wish" or "no way" to the above.
    In the event they respond like that (which usually I believe they do), I simply say something to the effect of, "No, I KNOW." and call it good.
    KISS - Keep it Stupid Simple


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