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  1. #1
    Minigiant is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Difficult situation, help needed

    OK, so im not that experienced on dealing with women. I have had sex with few but never been even close to relationship. But i met this single mom, divorced sometime during last year, two small kids. Around 30 years, im little bit older.

    Met her at the bar, she was talking to my friends and i told her my name etc. Went on hitting other women, danced with couple, kissed one etc. Around closing time saw her upset and sitting alone and asked whats the problem and talked a little bit. Ended up telling her one of my childhood stories and i was getting LOTS of positive signs. She wanted to dance so we went dancing. Spun her around few times and then she "attacked" me with heavy kissing and I pulled away after few kisses. Then she told me she wanted to sleep with me, but only sleep because she didnt want ONS's.

    Managed to piss her off with cocky funny but she quickly forgot it and we slept and i didnt try anything. In the morning lots of kissing and talking. Tried a little bit to get sex but no go. At first she didnt want to give me her number because she didnt want a relationship. Kids, work, ex etc. I told her thats crazy talk at this point and i even cant be in relationship because of my work etc. We kissed and i left.

    Few days later texted her some funny stuff and ended up making a bad joke which i apologized and i was forgiven. Few days later i sent her some lame SMS's and didnt get any answer. About week later i phoned her and did get her laugh and she told me i was really funny but she didnt want relationship. I told neither did i but i had good time with her and she agreed. Next week phoned her couple times more but no answer.

    Saw her in the bar couple of weeks later and flirting was on from the get go. For some reason(propably her friend) tension ended so we danced in a group. Didnt get chance to talk her but told her it was rude not to answer when i call. She hugged me and said good bye. Called her few days later and she was having good time talking to me and complimented me on my positive attitude. Told her i understand her situation and said i was going to see if things have changed in few months. Told it funny way, cant remember exactly what but something like "when sun starts shining again your going to be really horny and thats what i want to see". She said propably no but laughed a lot.

    Few weeks of no contact and sent her SMS during new year and got answer. Few days later a funny SMS, no answer. Week later saw her at the bar. She came to talk to me and was telling my friends that we are only friends. I laughed and teased her a bit. She got little upset. Couple of hours later she was dancing so i went to dance with her and talked a little bit. Nightclub closed so i went home and added her on FB. Instantly got a SMS "are you still wake". Answered "yes". She "so whats going to happen now?". I phoned her. She was giving me shit test and told me that i should be nice or she wouldnt talk to me anymore. Told her thats up to her but she needs to come to sleep with me. She tried to change the subject and i told her to shut up and get a taxi. So she said yes and came to my house. Little bit of talking and we went to bed and had sex and went to sleep.

    In the morning she is telling me about 6 months of selibacy, how she wants to have sex really bad etc. She told me that she had made promise to hershelf that she wouldnt have sex with me ever but had a feeling that some point it was going to happen. Also told me that she was happy she didnt have ONS's with some guy she would regret etc and if it had to happen then i was the best choice. Told me also that shes is really picky with men and i told her that so is every woman i know. We had fun talking and kissing etc. When she left she said that maybe we would see in the same circumstanses, BUT MAYBE. But definately will be in contact. I didnt say anything.

    Called her few days later and she was really sick so not much talking. She was ill for a couple of weeks so some SMS's of how she was doing etc. Called her yesterday to see if she was OK. She had company so i told her i had to tell a joke i heard to her. She didnt get, i teased her, she got defensive but no big deal. Told her i would explain it to her some time. She said maybe. So i asked when we could see, she didnt really say anything. I told her it would nice to see her, she said maybe. She was little bit serious so i teased her on playing hard to get. She laughed and i said goodbye.

    So, basicly i know that she is really busy with kids, work etc. When she is atleast little bit drunk shes really into me. Wants to know stuff about me, laughs at my jokes, doesnt get offended easily, lets me do stuff to her etc. But when we talk in the phone shes not interested on me but likes to talk to me and even calls me back when she cant answer. But she never calls me or texts me unless i do it first. Also i know that she has talked about me with her friends because they had some insider jokes about me.

    Im not really sure how to proceed. I can only see her when im at the bar but she is reluctant to tell me when she is going. There was a point to the joke i told her and she didnt get it so i thought maybe i should send her a SMS that there is point to that story and i will tell it when she gets the joke. And maybe then freeze her out for a couple of weeks or more? Also thought about confronting her and tell her to stop playing games but propably thats too needy? Or maybe just start giving her commands through SMS's. Something like "come here, i want to sleep with you" even though i know she cant because of the kids etc. I know i need to get the command but she most likely keeps ignoring me untill i contact her or see her at the bar.

    And she propably knows that im open to seeing other women at the moment but doesnt know if im seeing anybody or anything like that.

  2. #2
    PUA Bart is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    I am no expert but:
    1. You slept with her and all I read is you are teasing her and busting her balls. Where did I read you're genuinely attracted to her? Does she even know you like for other reasons than that she is very farkable?
    2. She gets upset all the time because you fail to see her physical and verbal cues. You maybe able to please her physically (which I even doubt, as she obviously feel there is no connection between the 2 of you), but you fail to please her emotionally obviously. Her brain, the part where the emotions are processed, is her biggest sexual organ. Try to stimulate that part of her brain. But nevertheless, she is sending you mixed signals: getting upset, not wanting anything vs farking you. So she is considering.
    3. You obviously have her attraction. She still talks to you even if you only do her wrong all the time. So obviously your problem does not lie in the attraction department (although begging for forgiveness because you told a bad joke is not an attractive trait. It communicates "I want to fark you so badly, I got no one better around". reframe it next time). So letting her know you are seeing other women will not bring anything new to the table it will not make her reconsider. I would even think it'll hurt your chances if you keep overdoing the busting balls and teasing. Next time you are comfortable with each other, refrain of farking her, go sit comfy in your couch and start talking about stuff that moves you and moves her. Letting her share her emotions with you, and open up your emotions (not emotions about her, but about your childhood memories, your fears, things that you want in live) to her, will maybe make her reconsider you. And when you feel you guys are bonding, then fark her till her pussy is scorched.
    4. Women, and guys, who came out of a LTR recently, are in general, a very bad target group for a new LTR or any kind of relationship. Their emotions are out of whack, and most of the time they just try to fill the gap or to replace what they have lost. But sooner than later they see they will not be able to replace what they have lost, and then you're out.
    5. You are doing very very well however on accepting her not wanting a relationship. Next time agree and reframe. Tell her you understand she does not want one and that you also think the same because there is nothing "real" other than attraction between the both of you, there is no connection and you don't know her well enough yet. But also tell her, regardless of her not wanting more, you still want to get to know her better (translation: you want to get comfy in your couch with her, talking about emotional stuff) because you think that next to her being freaking sexy, she also is X and Y (fill in something non sexual and special about her... give her some value, but don't overdo it, she must feel exactly that the value you give her, is the value she deserves).

  3. #3
    Minigiant is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    Thanks for the response. Because there has been something like 10 hours of conversation i have left most of it out.

    1. Actually i have pretty bad oneitis and i think she propably knows it too. Or atleast suspects it. I think thats why she is giving me all these shit tests about not answering when i call etc. When she asked what i like about her i have told why i like to hang with her.

    2. Propably yes. But i have no idea what i should do. Actually im more afraid of being friednzoned at the moment and on the phone it actually feels like that. Or maybe not even friend zoned but something i have no idea about. Like she feels that she wants to talk to me but im not sure about what.

    3. Yes, attraction is definately there because on person shes doing all the moves and i dont have to do anything. Shes also more eager having sex. And we have talked lot about life, how i feel about kids, etc. But on the phone she seems to be pretty closed about everything.

    4. She told me that she is not ready for anything serious right now and maybe not even anything less serious. And she has definately mixed feelings. But from what she is telling me i think that she trusts me and is attracted to me. But i have no idea why she is so unsure.

    5. Been there, done that. Biggest problem at the moment is how to get her at my couch. At phone she is too closed to talk about anything serious and it is hard to bring up any subject which would let me or her open up and if go there i have feeling im going to scare her away. And she seems to have no interest in me or what is going on in my life. In person it is totally different story. Funny and sexy has worked so far but it is not getting me anywhere else. And it is really weird because most of time women are telling me how they love to talk to me and how easy it is to speak to me about anything but dont want have sex with me. But rarely anybody is saying that im really sexy.

    In the end she seems to trust me, she wants to have sex with me and she is having good time with me. So maybe lack of connection? I have no idea what else to try because whe have talked pretty much about everything, even some slightly sad things and bad experiences. Even told her why i have never been in relationships. Shyness, lots of work etc.

    Well, sent SMS and asked her if she already got the joke so i can tell why i wanted to tell it to her. She said no because she cant remember it. Told her that then its going to be really hard. She said yes it is, i didnt answer. Propably just going to move on and see if she wants to have anything to do with me.

  4. #4
    Minigiant is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    OK, no other answers so i have thought more about this. So im basicly trying to collect here everything i think is important.

    So we have had really good time in the mornings also when we are not drunk. I have told her that i have really good time with her and she has agreed and i know she means it. She has told me that she havent made her mind about me yet but it was said with cheeky smile after i told her that i like her sense of humor and self confidence. I have also busted her balls when i have felt she is out of the line, mostly because of attitude.

    She is also eager to tell about hershelf and about me when we are face to face (including hangover mornings)but on the phone i struggle to keep conversation going more than 5 minutes. I think it is because she is not investing into conversation. Usually i come in with high energy and tell some preplanned jokes or something similar but conversation usually starts slowly die after that and when i do teasing she responds usually by getting defensive. And when i talk about seeing her in future she seems to get irritated. And because of her current situation i cant really do anything else than ask when she is available.

    Also she keeps telling me maybe we see again and always with really serious, maybe even angry, tone of voice. Only real explanation she has given is that she has high standards. I figure im atleast somewhere near good enough for her because she would have said no if i wasnt. And she has told me that she likes me because im funny and always happy. And she keeps giving me quick answers to all the messages. And clearly based on what she has said to me she is thinking about me.

    So currently im freezing her out but any idea how long would be good? And what should plan of action? And if she contacts me what should be my plan of action? I think shes being out of the line with her attitude but i have no idea how i should confront her about it.

  5. #5
    PUA Bart is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    Stop focussing on punishing behaviour that's out of line. Ignore bad behaviour, that's enough punishment. Punishing bad behaviour communicates that you care. If someone steps out of line verbally say "I love you too" and make a kissing gesture. I can't think of anything stronger to communicate you don't care than this. If someone steps out of line in any other way, just ignore it and mind your own business or continue playing her.

    Instead of focussing on punishment, focus on rewarding good behaviour. Be appreciative of what she does right. it sets the frame of you appreciating her as a person, legitimating your interest and you figuring out what she means to you. Escalating appreciation to a more sexual tone later on is more valued this way. On top of that, you will be regarded as a charming person by simply just everyone which is a great DHV.

    What should be your plan? Figure out where you are lacking. Her sending mixed signals shows she hasn't made up her mind, as she even literally said that to you. You can lack in attraction, comfort or seduction. Only you can figure that one out. I don't know your situation, but I can clearly see your emphasis and focus on punishment and busting balls/negging. So I would assume you are too harsh and she feels you are not pressing her buttons right, don't know how to please her emotionally. I think you should drop the focus on punishing and focus on rewarding good behaviour. Only nutcase women who aren't self confident fall in love with jerks.

    Don't get me wrong teasing and busting balls can be a great way to engage each other in playfull manner. But I am just not a big fan of punishment. I don't think anyone really has fond memories of people who put too much emphasis on punishment. Besides punishment will only work if you have value in the first place. You gain value by conveying she is gradually gaining value in your book because of her good behaviour. In other words you gain value by giving her value she has done something for to earn it. She will not want to lose something she worked for.

  6. #6
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    You're listening to too much of what she says. Shes a single mum and is obviously insecure and whilst she wants/needs sex she still holds onto the idea of needing a connection. She knows she probably can't have 100% connection because of her situation. If she slept with you once she will again, just need to overide her resistence each time and be clear in what greatness you have to offer and what you cannot do or become. You dont have to be a ONS nor a father/husband. Your a special escape from reality.

    As for a relationship I would stay well clear and find yourself someone without kids unless you truly love her and are mature enough/financially well off to lock yourself down into that commitment.

    A quick speed read of your posts - I keep seeing 'she'. Talk more about what 'you' (I) want.

  7. #7
    Minigiant is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    "Stop focussing on punishing behaviour that's out of line."

    Yeah, you are propably right and i think im giving that impression because situation pisses me of. I feel like she is in control and only way im taking control is ignoring her. And it only leads both of us ignoring each other. I have no idea how to get her chasing me and im pretty sure she wont be chasing me because she really is confident HB8/HB9 with great personality and she isnt any way bored because pretty much everybody is trying to hit on her and she has kids to keep her busy. And last time she was single she was HB9/10 with great personality. Only advantage i have is that im the only one shes had sex after her divorce and she doesnt like ONS's (given that she is telling me the truth which im not completely sure of).

    So the problem is basically this: only way of contacting her at the moment is calling her, SMS's and facebook. But when i call she is not investing in to conversation at all. Which is big problem because my game isnt really that good (pretty much decent natural when im feeling really good)and i really need women to invest in the conversations to keep them flowing.

    Attraction is there for sure, comfort is there because she is very open with me about her life, kids, sometimes even about feelings etc(of course thats not the case when we are talking in the phone). Also im pretty sure she sees me high value but everytime im asking when we can see it feels like im lowering my value and i really feel like beta man. So does the fact that im opening contact 98% time and basically 100% of the time we are not in the bar. How can i get her to initiate contact with me? And if i call her and she gives me "I dont feel like investing into conversation"-attitude how should i deal with it?

  8. #8
    PUA Bart is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    You don't have to ignore her, you have to ignore bad behaviour. Stop focussing on her trying to let her do what you want. It will only get you frustrated which is not good for the vibe between the two of you! People aren't robots. You can't force them to chase you.

  9. #9
    Minigiant is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Difficult situation, help needed

    Well, by an accident saw her in the bar. Did see her but managed to seem like i didnt see her and talked to my friends. Not sure if she saw me but later she came to talk to me and we hugged and talked about whats up etc and she told that they were going to dance in a minute and i told maybe we join them. Later they came back but her friend was making funny cockblock so they left again. Waited some time and went to dance floor and danced with them. Little bit weird, she was talking to me but didnt really dance with me. Like ignoring me and giving attention same time. I took some breaks to talk to my friend and other girls and this continued until the end. She left the bar and i went to talk to my friend and maybe in 15 mins we left also. She was smoking and talking to people outside the bar and when we came out she noticed my friend and she started to talk to us. Some bantering but not much else. We had long hug, i teased her a little bit and she left.

    Next morning she sent me a message for the first time ever. Just some bantering, which continued all day. At some point i shared a personal story which created long pause so went back to bantering which got really sexual and she made light suggestion which i think was meant we are going to have sex in future. Also made comment which made me think that she definately likes to play games with men.

    So basically im really confused at this point about what is going on. What seems odd to me that she didnt ask any questions about me or what i have been doing even though i kept throwing in hooks. Personal story killed conversation but then again she told me some personal stuff. So im really confused what she wants. Sexual stuff seems to be OK so maybe she sees me only as someone to have sex with? But based on earlier conversations she is not sure if she wants to have sex with me but wants to be in contact with me. Playing games? Or she is afraid of committing to anything serious because of divorce?

    So im really confused about what is should do. Sexual tension seems to whistle out slowly after every time i see her but when we see it comes back, even without any moves made by me. I really cant make any suggestions about meeting because it definately seems like being too much pressure for her and pushes her away. In the other hand cant really just wait until i see her by accident because then we are back in the square one, especially because it could be months when we see again.


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