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Thread: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

  1. #1
    blitz8's Avatar
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    Exclamation Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    Trying to keep this as short as I can, but I clearly need help with this PUA stuff, this is my second big failure, and went major AFC today... might of farked up with someone I care a lot about... huge failure, my last screw up doesn't even compare.

    Background: Girl I have known (most people would think HB 8.5-9, she is a 10 to me from our history) since elementary school (was basically "the girl next door") and dated for 3 years off an on before college, flew down to see me this past weekend. A lot of talk and hype leading into the weekend, very sexual. She is currently separated from her 2nd husband, has always made comments about how she wonders how much life would be different if we never broke up and got married.

    This weekend: I pick her up at the airport and it instantly clicks, just like 13 years ago when we were last together. She was a lot more timid vs how we were talking prior to her visit, and more of a clear sexual tension. We go out Fri night, have a blast... almost even closed a threesome (mostly due to HER help with a HB10 23yr old blonde)! No threesome but F-closed my girl and it was amazing. Saturday we couldn't keep our hands off each-other all day. She helps me shop since I'm not that fashionable and picks out stuff for me, all while being very flirty. Get back to the hotel she is staying at in the city and she starts to get ready for dinner. Now, I'm not going to lie, I am at this point thinking "what if" this could play out over time and she could be the one? Maybe she was the one I meant to be with all along.

    Sat. Night: With those thoughts, I make dinner reservations at Fleming's (high, high end steakhouse) to surprise her with. We walk in, she is floored that I (1) made reservations and (2) she has never eaten at fine dining her life. Dinner is amazing. She looks at me at the end of the meal and says let's not go out tonight and just go back up to the room. She strips down, I keep mine on hoping she was going to be aggressive, but she waits for me to make a move. Things progress a bit, but we're taking it slower that I planned. She ends up falling asleep! ...granted we both got only 2-3 hours of sleep so far in the weekend.

    This is where I think I farked up: I go complete AFC, emphasis on the frustration. I "check on her" asking if she is going to just sleep and she says no, just had too much wine. Ok, I go down on her to keep her interested and she tells me I don't have to do that. She then goes on me until I'm done and after says "better now?" and goes to sleep.

    Sunday Morning: She is up well before me (around 6am I think), goes out to get coffee and I hear her when she comes back in (it is now around 8). I'm still half asleep, she is dressed but I ask her to come back to bed. I should have known something was off and gotten out of bed! She doesn't, and I doze back off. When I wake up again, she is gone. Just a note saying "Thank you for a wonderful weekend, I got an earlier flight and will find my own way to the airport". I am CRUSHED. My wife walked out on me about 9 months ago, literally, moved out and took the kids while I was at work. This brought that pain back along with where I though this relationship could go. I call, I text, I call again, just wanted to know what went wrong. She finally replies when I tell her I'm on my way to the airport and will buy a ticket to anywhere to get past security to see / talk to her. (It works in the movies, right? but, I know, total AFC move. I was serious about it and almost really did. She tells me not to and also twists the knife with texts such as:

    "Our unfinished business is finished. And our history is exactly what it is. History."

    "We are just two completely different people now. This is the way it has to be."

    ...I asked why she didn't wake me and say goodbye...

    "I could have. But you were sleeping and peaceful and I'm just that cold hearted bitch and jaded and that much of a bitch."

    ... I tell her I feel played, and thought with some time we could have had it all...

    "No, we couldn't have. I need and deserve way more than you can offer me." (keep in mind, she has 2 kids, 2 diff dads, I have two kids with my ex... both her ex's are deadbeats and she makes 16k a year organizing event for a swingers club inside a strip club. I have a solid 6 figure career, a house, the "american dream" only broken by divorce).

    That was her last text to me. I was at the airport, I did not go past security and didn't see or talk to her. I don't want to end like this. I have known her for over 25 years!


    Main questions:
    - Is she saying that stuff to push me away, or do you think she feels that way?
    - What do I do??! I want her back, but I at an absolute minimum don't what to lose what we had before this weekend.


    Thank you for even reading this, thank you in advance to anyone who can help (and if telling me to go see a PhD tomorrow is your advice, I just might anyway). I want to call her again tonight when I know she would be back home, but I doubt she will answer, and I doubt it would actually help. A "freeze out" seems to be the way to go. I just don't know that I can do it and I can let her go. I'm afraid a freeze will mean it is over

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    You need to elaborate on the history you guys had before all this went down.

    How I'm reading this is that you scared her away by moving too fast. But tbh, this woman sounds incredibly insecure and when she says she deserves more than you what I think she is really saying is that she doesn't feel like she deserves what you have to offer.

    In all honesty, this is a question for a shrink more than a question for a pua forum.
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

  3. #3
    The Challenger is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    Man that's fucked up....try to get some sleep and think about everything....Ask yourselfe if she's the one? If she is do everything that's in your hand to get her back....by an airplane ticket and go where she is now tell her everything...tell her that you love her.Hope that helps.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by The Challenger View Post
    Man that's farked up....try to get some sleep and think about everything....Ask yourselfe if she's the one? If she is do everything that's in your hand to get her back....by an airplane ticket and go where she is now tell her everything...tell her that you love her.Hope that helps.
    Please don't do this. This is the advice Hollywood is selling you and not what works in the real world. Think about it this way, this is exactly the kind of behavior you were showing when she left you at the hotel room. When you said you were going to fly out and meet her did you get a positive response? Hell no! So let's try something different.

    I think I have a pretty clear picture of who this women is and how you should proceed, but I want to know what your history with her is before I give my advice.
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    I tried the Hollywood route, well, pretty darn close to it.

    I'll add a little more background points... and a lot of these feelings came back to me this weekend.

    My first thought too was the moved to fast and scared her off (or maybe it just scared her to think about, idk).

    She used to be a lot more insecure, but there were guys hitting on her left and right and she even said she never felt like she got hot until a few years ago.

    We went to elementary school together and grew up just a mile or so apart. We got "married" on the playground in 3rd grade and was both our "first kiss"... were whatever the 8/9 year old version of boy/girlfriend was back then. I left that school in 5th grade and she tells me she never forgot even thought we really were just kids.

    A few years later, I got her phone number and we would just talk on the phone occasionally... about anything. I was off and dating a couple other girls in middle school which she knew and we were just friends and talked a lot.

    Right about the time I turned 16 and got a car, I asked her out. We dated off and on for about 3 years of high school, but I was exclusively with someone else my senior (who I started dating after her). There were also other girls in my life and other guys in her's, hence the off and on, but somehow we always worked through and quite honestly were perfect for each other. I have yet to meet someone in my life who "just gets" me like she does.

    While dating, we did everything together. Spent almost every day and evening after school. Her family was well off, we had partial season tickets to baseball games, went to concerts, plays and also had a boat to ride on during the summers. It was some of the best times of both of our lives. Her parents and I got along great, she was my high school sweetheart and everyone thought we'd be together forever. She was my first true love (my ex-wife being the only other one ever) as was I hers, and I was also another one of her, um "firsts".

    Anyway, off to college, I moved a good 700 miles away and broke up with my Sr. year of HS girlfriend end of that summer. She knew this, but could get into the school I was going to but applied to a few near by. Got into two of them, but ended up staying closer to home.

    We kept in touch a bit, I saw her during the summers but at one point, she had gotten pregnant and then married the guy. I backed off a whole lot and was also in a serious relationship with the girl who became my first wife.

    By the time I got married, she was divorced with 1 child and has since told me, it took her month's to get over the fact that I was married. History repeated, she got pregnant again and married that guy on a whim in Vegas. We lost touch for about 3 years after all that.

    Fast forward, other than a couple Facebook comments here and there, I reach out to her for the first time in a while, asking her about motorcycles. She rides, and after my divorce, I wanted to get one and needed a woman's opinion. That of course led into me telling her about my wife and kids no longer living with me and she told me about her latest separation. We texted, talked on the phone just about every day for the last couple months leading up to this weekend that we were both really looking forward to.

    I had no intention of it going like this (I thought she was happily married, for one) when I really starting to talking to her, but I could tell the attraction built back quick for both of us.

    Still pretty broad, but should give a decent idea. She as always been the one I go back to.

    Duke... maybe you should get the PhD and make a career of this... I've seen your other posts helping people and they are money.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    Ok, so I stand by what I said earlier. She's blocking you out not because she thinks that you're not good enough for her, but either a) because she thinks she's not good enough for you, or b) because she's scared that if it gets serious she'll just end up losing you/getting hurt again like it has repeatedly happened in the past.

    When you view things through this lens the picture becomes more clear. If she was trepid about starting a relationship before this weekend, then you can only imagine that when things got serious so quickly she got frightened away. When you took her to the really fancy resaurant I think you probably threw her off.

    So there are a couple possibilities with how you can deal with this, but before jumping into that I think I should make it clear that I believe she is still attracted to you based on what you have said. Regardless of which option you choose you're going to need to do is give this some time--at least a few days. This is for a few reasons. First and foremost, you want to settle your own emotions down before you try to make any moves. Gather yourself and get your head in the right place. Second, she needs space because you scared her and she needs to figure out what she wants. Third, with your history with this woman, if I'm right and she's still attracted to you, a few days of no contact is only going to make that attraction grow. I'd probably give it about a week considering your history and how strong you came on, but longer might even be called for.

    Ok, so now what do you do when you reengage? The first option is the option that most of the guys on here would give you. Try to open up to her with something fun that doesn't bring up what happened. Do it through some sort of non-commital mode of communication like text or phone call. DO NOT fly out to her or make an grand gestures, as doing so will only make matters worse.

    The second option comes with greater risk but higher reward. This method has worked so well for me in past LTRs that I started using it too much. This option is is to call her out on her bullshit, but in a way that makes you sound understanding and compassionate. Basically you're going to pyschoanalyze the shit out of her. Everything I've told you that I believe about her personality and what she's feeling, you're going to dump that on her. Tell her that you understand she's frightened of getting hurt, tell her that you understand you moved to fast, tell her that it's bullshit that you're not good enough and that deep down she's really scared she's not good enough for you, then reassure her that she is good enough. Finally, tell her you want to take things slow. Now here's the beautiful thing about this method, even if you completely fuck up your analysis of the situation, if you say it the right way and have a strong frame, she'll start to believe you. She'll think that you understand her better than she understands herself, and this will become a strong point of relatibility.

    There you go, these are the two options you have other than the Hollywood option (I'm sure someone else can give you another one). The first option is the safer of the two, but it's also the one I believe has the lesser likelihood of giving you the result you want. The second one carries higher risk and if you're a persuasive person is perfect. Of course, I'm extraordinarily good at convincing people that my bullshit is an accurate reflection of reality, so take that as you will.

    Let us know how it turns out!
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

  7. #7
    sidewinder89 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by The Challenger View Post
    Man that's farked up....try to get some sleep and think about everything....Ask yourselfe if she's the one? If she is do everything that's in your hand to get her back....by an airplane ticket and go where she is now tell her everything...tell her that you love her.Hope that helps.
    Whatever you do, don't do this! It will make you seem needy and invasive. To my mind you need to freeze out or go the other way and actually start to take a more "fuck you" kind of attitude.

    This is difficult to recover as you've already dlv'd by calling her, asking why, near begging her to come back...

    your only shot here is to completely break contact. If she texts then you can respond but never ever, say you want her back, that she could be the one.... etc etc. In fact your approach should be to go the other way, tell her your life is great, that your happy. By this I don't mean rub her face in a load of fake stories about you fucking a load of other girls... its transparent.

    Your approach is to tell her that you are doing well for yourself, focusing on work and having a great time with you friends and generally enjoying single life. NOTHING MORE! In my experience this should get her to start to chase you again. It will work better if you actually start doing the above as well. You may find that you actually are much better off without someone like her in your life...


    One last thing, you sound as though you are still very cut-up about your ex-wife. I don't know what went I on but I do know that you need to move past it completely. Don't start another serious relationship until you have moved on completely. Otherwise you doom yourself to failure.

  8. #8
    The Challenger is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    That worked in my case...I was honest and I said what I got to say ...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by The Challenger View Post
    That worked in my case...I was honest and I said what I got to say ...
    This is the problem, these things do work occassionally. You give a kid enough bullets and he'll hit the target eventually. You hand the gun to a military sniper and he'll hit the target more often than he misses.

    When I was younger I pulled out all the AFC shit, and it all worked for a little while or once in a while. The begging, the "I can't go on without you," grand romantic gestures. You name, I've probably tried it. BUT this won't work with every woman and even if it does work with one woman it's only a short term fix. Once you've done this shit you've established a weak frame and the relationship is doomed to fail.
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

  10. #10
    blitz8's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help before I do something (even more) stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuke View Post
    ... First and foremost, you want to settle your own emotions down before you try to make any moves. Gather yourself and get your head in the right place. Second, she needs space because you scared her and she needs to figure out what she wants. Third, with your history with this woman, if I'm right and she's still attracted to you, a few days of no contact is only going to make that attraction grow. I'd probably give it about a week considering your history and how strong you came on, but longer might even be called for.
    I never planned or expected things to ramp up the way they did, but I can see how if she felt it too, it scared her. She does have two kids (and their dads), friends and a job (all be it, not one you would exactly put a resume) that would all get turned upside down.

    I don't know why, but even though I knew this, I have such a hard time doing it. Getting reinforcement from others does help. I can tell you this, my texting her again last night wanting to know where it went wrong did get me an answer of "I felt more like a play toy all weekend" and "I could never happy living [here]." She did also start blaming herself for putting herself in that position... BUT I know it just did damage in the long run and I should have sat back as I am going to do now. Stupid scotch.

    Quote Originally Posted by sidewinder89 View Post
    This is difficult to recover as you've already dlv'd by calling her, asking why, near begging her to come back...

    your only shot here is to completely break contact. If she texts then you can respond but never ever, say you want her back, that she could be the one.... etc etc...

    One last thing, you sound as though you are still very cut-up about your ex-wife. I don't know what went I on but I do know that you need to move past it completely. Don't start another serious relationship until you have moved on completely. Otherwise you doom yourself to failure.
    Dead on... I absolutely did some of that and it just made it worse. Sounds like the cure is forget it for a while and get back to my attempt at this PUA stuff to find a new girl(s).

    The ex-wife thing is somewhat accurate, while I do feel I am over her emotionally, as shown here, this girl walking out on me brought back a ton of sh1t from how everything went down that I am not fully passed.


    The Hollywood stuff has worked in the past for me too, but not in long run. Learn by failure and move on is right, but I only fear this time because of who I farked up with, the sting may linger a bit.

    I need to take a couple weeks off work or something and start really studying this stuff... I've been gathering bits and pieces but need the time to really "get" it.


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