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  1. #1
    ares is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Talking Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Hey MPUAs, would REALLY appreciate some help with a multiple-woman situation Details:

    Me
    New to PUA, curious to try out this lifestyle. Voracious for attention and intimacy, but also a charming guy who genuinely appreciates women. This combo often lands me in tricky situations like the one below.

    The Setting
    Small city (around 80k) where everyone seems to know each other...run into someone I know 60% of the time I go out..some nights I'll run into 10 different acquaintances. In other words - tricky to sneak around, easy to be branded as a sleaze.

    The HBs
    HB #1, dating 2 months
    Been close to her family for a long time, but nothing's happened until now...I'm 10 years older and she's recently grown into her HB-ness. She lives 2h away and is swamped with work. We only see each other every 2-3 weeks, but it's for a full weekend when we do. She's not looking to be my girlfriend, but also not interested in dating or sex with anyone else. We've discussed, and agreed that we want to keep this going, but would let each other know if we want to start seeing someone else. She's said she doesn't want to "keep me from meeting other people," but I'm not sure that means she'd keep seeing me if she knew I was.

    BUT I can't wait so long between visits without starting to get needy and losing my cool.

    So...

    HB #2, dating 1 month
    Picked up at a bar, 4-5 dates rapid-fire. Can tell I'm boyfriend material for her...she is a big social hub and has mixed me into her circle of friends. They like me and I'm quickly becoming one of the gang. Have been sleeping over at her place, hot and heavy...we're about to start having sex, which I know will mean a big escalation for her. We haven't discussed it, but I'd guess non-exclusivity would be a deal-breaker. My age will also come as a surprise when she finally asks (10 years older than her, too).

    Prospects
    Been number-closing like crazy recently...lots of hot dates on the horizon. But I want to get a clear strategy before I start complicating things by activating any prospects.

    The Crux
    Basically I'd like to avoid a train wreck. This weekend I skipped an event at HB#2's house because I had a chance to go see HB#1 - so this was the first weekend I haven't seen HB#2 since we met. Next weekend is Valentine's - HB#1's planning to come stay for the weekend, and we like to go out to bars and clubs where we'll be visible. So I'll need to tell HB#2 something and hope we don't run into her or her friends.

    What I need to figure out
    - General guidelines for managing this dynamic
    - How to avoid getting caught by HB#2 or her friends
    - What should tell HB#1, HB#2, and Prospects about non-exclusivity - if anything

    Thanks guys, looking forward to your wise words.
    ARES

  2. #2
    BatMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    First off, don't try to hide it per say. If you are "caught" then you may try to cover your tracks and it'll just makes things worse. You are better off owning up to what you have been doing. People will be upset, but they will respect you and will get over it.

    How do you handle it? First off, realize that there is NOTHING wrong with what you are doing. You need a strong frame for this. Try this one:

    - I owe it to myself to casually date until I meet that special someone that changes my mind.

    - I am a man who is comfortable with his sexual desire in women and will not apologize for it

    - I am too much of a gentlemen to discuss the details of my dating life

    As a tip, if any woman asks if you are seeing someone, you can simply say that you feel it is too early to discuss certain things. You aren't lying and you don't tell them what's going on. Plus it adds a little mystery which will frustrate them. Good stuff. Hope this helps and good luck.
    "All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

  3. #3
    ares is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Awesome advice, thanks Batman. Sounds like it's best to be proactive and tell one or both that I want to be non-exclusive, ASAP.

    Going a bit deeper - I've read a lot of the 'multiple-women' threads and seems like there's much more on mindframe than logistics. Still curious how an mPUA deals with:

    - when to have the non-exclusivity conversation...first date? or after some milestone?
    - do's and don'ts for that chat
    - how to handle a direct run-in, even if one or both women know what's up
    - even when you've come clean, how to avoid her friends hating you and trashing your rep?

    Ares

  4. #4
    ares is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Broke the news to #2 last night, in the car on the way home from a date (just as we were about to start making out...doh!)

    Told her I am in "date-mode" (per another post on this forum) as I've been in a relationship and haven't been able to date for the last 3 years. Used the unfortunate wording "have been on lockdown" and "date casually" which I don't recommend, both sound a bit fratty. Anyway said I'd love to keep dating her if we could dial back any expectations a bit, for now.

    She didn't really know what to say and seemed about to cry, so I told her to think about it and we'd talk when she is ready. Waiting to hear what she says, will report back.

    Ares

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Try not to give her too much of an option. Telling her you'll come back after she thinks about it gives her a lot of potential power. In order for her to get the frame back she may come back to you with something like "I want something more and you aren't going to offer it to me" kind of thing in order to try and manipulate you to do what she wants. It won't be totally lost if she does this as long as you hold your frame.

    It's better to behave as if she already agreed. Like she never had the option. (Ex: I just owe it to myself to find out exactly what I want and who I am etc....So tomorrow we're getting sushi. I've been really craving some for the last week!) Don't let it be the last thing you talk about and immediately start making future plans. She'll sort the emotional part of being upset on her own later. She'll get over it and you'll be back on track.

    Run-ins for me are usually just looks. They won't embarrass themselves by confronting me when they know I'll just throw the "we're just dating" line. They know you don't owe them anything because you were honest with her in the first place. To this day I've never had a direct confrontation. Doesn't mean this will never happen. Just that it is unlikely as long as you are not lying. (Like they find out the other woman is her best friend lol.)

    As for rep...you cannot control what people say behind your back. That is an unrealistic expectation. In fact I'm sure at this moment neither you or I would want to know what people have been saying about us. Just enjoy the fact that they are using their time and energy talking about you instead of something better
    "All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

  6. #6
    ares is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Spoke to #2 after a few days of silence. Said it took her a little while to shift her mindframe, but she's OK with dating casually.

    She'd been caught off guard because she thought *I* had been acting like I wanted to be exclusive (I took her on a picnic, washed dishes after breakfast...I didn't realize these were exclusivity signals). I'm out of town for the week so can't get together with her right away to consolidate the new reality. But looking forward to it when I get back.

    Meanwhile, #1 pulled a very inconsiderate last-minute flake on our weekend plans. After a failed scramble to replace her, I spent most of the weekend alone, feeling wounded and pissed. A bad feeling to realize a girl has this power over you when you have zero commitment to one other. Seems the move here is to go zero communication until she gets in touch.

    If and when she does reach out, wondering what to say? Still want to keep things going if
    she's interested, but don't want her to feel like I'm at her beck and call, or that it's OK to flake on me.

    Ares

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Well the way I feel about flaking is different than other PUA's. If I know a woman would feel like if I walked out of her life, she would be upset, then I would call her on it. A woman who doesn't have investment with you wouldn't care and would just look at you like you're just drama when she's trying to have fun. If she truly values you, then she won't want you out of her life, therefore would not want to upset you. If you act as if her flaking is cool, then she WILL do it more often. Because she knows there's no consequences.

    Freeze out's can work, but they take awhile and she may not even notice. Depends on the circumstances. So I usually call her on it. Not in a "Why would you do that?" or "I was really hoping to see you" kind of thing. More like a "It is a huge turnoff when a woman flakes at that last min. That's high school behavior..." Just state your standards and expectations and the rest has to be up to her.
    "All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

  8. #8
    ares is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Tough to decide - not sure how invested she is.

    I do seem to be roughly priority #4...after work, family, friends. On the other, I'm the only person she's sleeping with, and she wouldn't sleep around. Plus we live 1.5h apart, so getting together requires effort and time. Her behavior might just be limited bandwidth and a struggle to stay on top of her life.

    She's travelling for work for the next month so there's no chance to test the waters in person. Feel like calling out this flake would just leave a bad taste in her mouth for the next month. But a freeze out might make it easy for her to just distance herself, especially if she feels I've lost interest.

    Prepared to let this one go, but also open to ideas!
    Ares

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Ok I see what you mean. Yea a freezeout may give her the wrong message and would just give her a reason to start letting you go. It could still work, but very risky.

    One thing I always liked more than being unreactive and "too cool for school" type attitudes is the emotional rollercoaster. It's plain and simple. Women are emotional creatures and love to experience them. A man who leads her into so many different emotions (good or bad) can make her crazy about him. That's why I am not afraid to show that she upset me. Not only because I know how to do it in a way that does not make me look weak (showing emotions is not weak. It's how you show them) but also I know she gets to see the other side to me and knows I'm not afraid of her. That I'm not always on my best behavior because I'm not trying to impress her. I am who I am, take it or leave it. It's a simple, yet effective mindset.

    What was that blabbering about? If she is sleeping with you, and only you, then she is definitely invested and would be afraid to lose you. Especially if it is shaped that she fucked up her chances with you and not the other way around. Don't be afraid to get upset or mad at her and show her you are upset. If she is invested then you can pull her back easily with a sweet gesture. Get on that emotional rollercoaster and ride the shit out of it.
    "All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

  10. #10
    ares is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Juggling multiple women & staying non-exclusive

    Not much to report here but didn't want to leave this thread hanging.

    After she flaked on the weekend, I left her a voicemail and never heard back. Together with the flake, this seems like a definitive signal of no interest.

    This one hurts - we'd had a longstanding friendship prior to this, and had agreed to communicate extra well so nobody's feelings got hurt. For no apparent reason she's done the opposite and left me scratching my head.

    The tough thing about outcomes like this is the lack of feedback. I have no idea what happened, and by the way she's acted it seems like it would be tough to get any.

    For those who'd say this sounds like one-itis, I'd disagree. I'm going to care about women I'm dating, whether it's exclusive or not...

    Ares


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