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Thread: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

  1. #1
    robione is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum. Basically found a girl I like and am trying to see where things go... well there is a bunch to the story but I'll try and keep it on the shorter side.

    Bit of background on me right away... I work in the oilfield and have a 3 week on, 1 week off schedule. During the 3-week on... maybe I might be able to squeak in some time somewhere... maybe. Work is work. Especially now that all our driving has to be company related and no personal vehicles are at man camps.

    First off, this girl was a stripper. We chatted in the club a few times last year. She has a heart of gold and is a very genuine person but has a LOT of issues. Personally IDC, I like her for her. People keep telling me to find someone else. But this (my words below) is before I knew of them.

    She's from out of state and there was a two month gap between her appearances. During this time... well I "created a door" to knock on. Took a little looking but I found her on FB and messaged her. A month went by and she got back to me. Messages were slow at first. I asked if we could "hang out," she seemed excited. She gave me her number without asking... never really used it until her friend died so she could talk to someone because she had noone. Kept up FB which after her second round of appearances became daily. I don't like the ambiguity of "hanging out" so shortly after the constant communication I asked her out on a date via FB. She said yes.

    Then life happened. Actually life had already been happening. No vehicle, no money, pre-pre-school son, potential jail time (never happened), death, (could date) "flight to safety," (doesn't want to date) mysterious 5-month break in communication (I know the reasons for part but not all of it), depression, mental help.

    I know... find another girl right? But I like her. I know I won't find anyone like her (positive qualities).... for a long time at best. Look at my schedule LOL. So all this stuff going on I figured she doesn't really need a guy chasing her for a relationship so instead I was more of a friend because she really didn't have anyone.

    We had 3 personal encounters where we chatted at the club... IDK how many hours on FB and texting. Then the long break. I noticed she changed her profile pic in FB (like when you click on the message tab and it shows you the last n messages kinda thing) so I called her out on ignoring me... seeing as she just got out of a bad two month long relationship I said "friends only." That's essentially July - April.

    I've seen her 3x in person since. I've driven out of state to see her twice on my week off. Just for a couple of days each time.... and dinner/movie a few days ago. We go back and forth a little on FB nothing like it use to be. Frequency all depends on what's happening but mainly it's commenting/liking a status/pic and not messaging.

    There was some casual touching when we went out for drinks the first night we saw each other. We had drinks between dinner and the movie a few days ago and exchanged a few looks, told each other a few compliments. Nothing major. That's pretty much the extent of the flirting outside of the club. I kinda directed things towards the friend route not totally consciously. More consciously in the beginning then now.

    When these visits started she had zero money and no job. She still has no money, but just got a job. So I had to pay for everything. I didn't mind. She's not "expensive." I wanted her company. I'm the one taking her to eating establishments... she's the one use to not having much so she planned plenty of free/inexpensive things. There was hiking, feeding ducks w/ her kid (okay that was me), swinging while watching over her son play (that was after), hanging out looking over the mountains while her son swam in a pond (it was a kiddie pond, very shallow). Simple things.

    So during this whole process I've felt completely heart-broken twice. Once when she no longer wanted to date because of all the crap happening, which I completely understood. The second time was during the silence when I had lost a friend several weeks after the New Year and her birthday was a few days later. Her response, blocking her facebook account (bad relationship time). I felt like I lost two people.

    I've never been a super-alpha. It kinda comes and goes but when the level of feeling/caring becomes uneven (mine > hers (where that equals friends or doesn't know)) it seems whatever I have goes out the window. Right now I pay for things, hold the door open for her, open her car door first, be the nice guy. It kills me because I know where I'm at. I know it won't last forever (and I'll be the loser in the end). I was too afraid to put my arm around her waist walking to/from the movies for fear of rejection. In the moment and just reading that line makes me feel retarded. Somehow caring robs me of my cajones. I need them back! How do I get them back?

    If weather permits the next time we she each other in a few weeks (most likely) the plan is to go camping. The three of us (her son). I don't mind this at all. I think it's great. We're all going to be in the same tent. My goal is to just hold her all night... hopefully some flirting beforehand. I might be in the friend zone but I don't think I've been there too long.

    So aside from my desire to get my cajones back, I was curious about your take on the situation. How to move things toward the romantic direction instead of remaining friends. Would you recommend anything different on the camping trip if it happens?

    I'm pretty much "stuck" with her for ~48 hours if it happens. If not, a.) I'd like to not get a hotel. I'm not sure if she'd feel awkward having me sleep in the camper with her at her parents'. But I'd like to make that happen if it seems realistic and, b) although I'm not "stuck" with her for 48 hr if we don't go camping.... it's not like I'm super busy in a city I'll have been to 3x at this point for a total of about 3.5 days. (Not familiar surroundings.)

    I guess where I'm going with this is I spend three weeks working... a few days with her. Scarcity is already present, yes? I don't really need to put more in do I? Since it is, would large time blocks together be okay (as far as trying to build something romantic) in this instance? That means I'm pretty much stuck being there for the peaks and lulls.

    Thanks everyone.

  2. #2
    Wolf24's Avatar
    Wolf24 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    I know... find another girl right?

    Maybe you don't have to. Personally, I don't like giving up on a girl just like that, just because she has friendzoned me or she has a crazy life. I always make my intentions clear. If she rejects me in a clear manner, then I move on.

    But I like her. I know I won't find anyone like her (positive qualities)....

    Maybe you won't find anyone like her. But you can find someone better than her. You'll never know unless you go out there and meet new people.

    I've never been a super-alpha.

    Why don't you be one? It's not that hard once you get yourself a solid mindset and hold on to it.

    ...

    Overall, from what I've seen, it seems like you've been pitying her. You intentionally led yourself to friendzone -which actually doesn't exist but you didn't make your intentions clear- because she needed friends, caring, money, etc. But if you like her this much, behind all those crazy life scenes, she is a strong independent woman, right?

    You are scared that you will lose her if you make your intentions clear about the relationship between you two. But I don't think she will let you go even if she rejects you because it doesn't seem she has many people in her life.

    You know what? She has a son. She is a single mom with a farked up life. She wants the best for her family. That's why she wants a man. A strong man. She wants someone to keep her and her son safe. She wants someone to love her and her son. You've just been a facilitator. You always cared for her, but not for yourself, because you felt like she might get hurt because of your selfish attitude. Knowing what you want, stating what you want is not selfish. You were weak because you were just a support for her to recover in her life. You weren't a part of it... You want to be a part of her family, which will make her life A LOT better, but you have never stated that... You may think you are a part of her life but once she gets back up, once she gets more friends, you will lose your significance because you are just a friend. Maybe a special friend, but still just a friend.

    I don't have any "game plan" for your camping expedition. If I understood your situation correct, you just need to adapt the mindset explained above and you can create your "game plan" yourself easily...

    Sometimes we need tough love to shaken up, bro.
    Good luck,
    Wolf.
    It's not about who I was or who I'm going to become.

    It's about who I am. Do it right here, right now.

  3. #3
    robione is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf24 View Post
    I know... find another girl right?

    Maybe you don't have to. Personally, I don't like giving up on a girl just like that...
    I'm not giving up. I was just reiterating what I've been told by all of my "friends" and family. If I gave up on something it would be pursuing a relationship, which is not what I want to do.

    Getting her number, personal FB from a dancer kinda impressed myself. There's a lot of details to this story like I accomplished that having no real previous girlfriend or dates. I did something "right." Just need to find that mojo again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf24 View Post
    You are scared that you will lose her if you make your intentions clear about the relationship between you two. But I don't think she will let you go even if she rejects you because it doesn't seem she has many people in her life.
    I saw something before I posted that I really liked. I've been on a PUA tear of sorts, yesterday. Basically the person said... well many say, the nice guy is nice out of fear of rejection. Generally he doesn't get rejected with a "no" because he's nice, but his rejection is far more subtle and worse because it allows him to delude himself.

    As long as no developments happen (like she finds someone) I plan on being more specific and not beat around the bush with my feelings. I had intended on saying those things. IDK why I waited but perhaps it's in my favor and saying such things in the joyful moments with her son will have more power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf24 View Post
    You were weak...

    ...you can create your "game plan" yourself easily...

    Sometimes we need tough love to shaken up, bro.
    I can take the honesty. I prefer it non-sugar coated. I use to be defensive about it but not anymore. Commercial fishing in Alaska did much more for me than the oil field. Yeah I was weak... and inexperienced. Hopefully I can change former back where I was when I first met her. IDK if I'd consider myself a strong person still, but much stronger in a few important aspects of life for sure.

    I kinda came to the same conclusion about the game plan and in a sense wondered why to even write this thread. But I'm glad I did. Sometimes little insights get in there to help and they did.

  4. #4
    Wolf24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by robione View Post
    I kinda came to the same conclusion about the game plan and in a sense wondered why to even write this thread. But I'm glad I did. Sometimes little insights get in there to help and they did.
    Glad if I could help. Your case wasn't my usual expertise to be honest, but I tried my best.

    Hope you accomplish what you intend to. And remember, even if you fail: Leave her better than you found her.

    Keep me updated, I'd like to hear how this turns out.
    Good luck,
    Wolf.
    It's not about who I was or who I'm going to become.

    It's about who I am. Do it right here, right now.

  5. #5
    dave_xxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    My advice is that you have spent far too much time, effort and resources on this girl.

    She has had bad relationships and she has a mental disorder (depression). She is barely able to support herself, her son so down the road you will be doing the supporting financially and emotionally.

    The time you spend chasing her is the time you aren't spending chasing other girls who have far better qualities to offer than this girl does. Get away from oneitis and remember that you are the prize. You have a job that pays well and the girls will be lucky to spend time with you.

    Change your mindset, the girls will be all around and over you.

  6. #6
    robione is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    This is the level of over thinking I possess over very simple things. But two things, 1.) It seems that's what's done anyway as a PUA except later when you have practiced the skills you no longer think about it, it becomes innate. 2.)I'm curious what you guys would've done. (I question, think, postulate, hypothesize everything unfortunately. Kinda goes away somewhat when I've changed my mindset a bit. Since I'm just starting... still there for now.)

    Okay so we're facebooking about 3 hours ago. Something quick to just keep the link, so-to-speak. She had a fun time with some friends on the weekend after being deathly bored most of the day. Is going to "try" dancing again. I ask when her first night is. Well I'll just give it to you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Our conversation
    Her: Tonight. right now.

    Me: Awesome! U excited?

    Her: No. im not doin a great job at all. i havent made sh1t. but hopefully itll get better.

    Me: Ur an awesome dancer. U were the only one to break me (so to speak). That's real tough.

    Do or do not. There is no try.

    Go get 'em [stage name]!

    Her: Ok thanks [____]. that helps alot. im gonna do it

    Me: U got me with your personality. Bring that back.

    Have a great night. I'll TTYS.
    Sounds fine to me. Then I get a text from this strange number about half hour later. Turns out it is her mom. I'm thinking to myself, "WTF. How did she get this number?" Of course the obvious answer is her daughter. (... or a letter I wrote to them months ago. Hmm.) Anyway she's having a bad feeling and wants to know if I spoke with her lately and she is okay. I am honest to a fault. I could've said yes and left it at that but instead tell her the truth.

    Which is from what I gather she's just trying to make it work. Went back to dancing. Tonight her first night, not doing so hot. I said some stuff, she felt much better.....

    Mom: "Thank you. If u talk 2 her please have her call me."

    Me: "I'll let her know we spoke."

    Okay... so this is a very simple thing. But I'm interested in your thought processes. Mine was:
    0. WTF. Instead of a "Spaulding" tattoo I just got "Friend" tattoo with equal force. (When I thought of this, it was her and not the letter that gave the mother my number.)
    1. Mom giving me an option as to when to notify her.
    2. Told her TTYS as a goodbye. Not to send her another message an hour later.
    3. Mom is concerned.
    4. Moms are always concerned.
    5. Perhaps mom can make her feel better. (There we go. Broke me.)
    6. Slightly peeved, I write (barely over an hour since my "goodbye":
    Your mother texted me. She would like for you to call when you have a chance. She is concerned...
    7. Will this message drag her down?
    8. I hate my brain!
    9. Let's see how this pans out.

    She just saw it as I'm writing this (2 hours later) which means she should be raking in the dough and should be getting happier every minute. But literally these simple things bug me to death. I literally could've sat on this 'til tomorrow and gave her the same news and not felt like such a 'tard. And actually have real time between messages. I let her FB status declaring her boredom sit... a "cry for help" go unanswered and said "What was your favorite moment this weekend?" today which began this conversation ~ 2 days later. Her mom texts me and I wrestle with this for 15 minutes before deciding to let her know. :?

    A lot of this PUA process is psychological. I have an interest in that. Reading your replies, I'm beginning to see my thought processes. I'd like to know yours. It was a small event but one of my mentor's said "How you do anything is how you do everything." Which is very true.

  7. #7
    lenric's Avatar
    lenric is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    "Me: U got me with your personality. Bring that back.

    Have a great night. I'll TTYS."

    Really mate?

  8. #8
    robione is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    Can you elaborate? I'm missing it here and I'd rather not write a novel on an assumption.

    I will write this though, a short version. If a dancer gets more than one-dollar bills from me they did something. That doesn't mean she was hot, had some feature I like, rubbed me the right way, etc. That's most strippers.

    She got my money by allowing a good portion of her real self in her stage personality and I could see that. That's what opened me up to her (both personally and financially)... the cheapest person you'll ever meet.

    If that got me to open my wallet for her. It'd work on other people with far less effort. She's just been out of it, the head space needed to do well in the clubs, for too long. I wanted her to get back in there and that's how she did it, by being pretty much herself. She was different than the rest. She wasn't focused on lack, worry, stress like she is now.

    I just wanted her to get back in the game and have a great night. I hope it worked. We'll see.

    Maybe that line is redundant (and very cheesy) and is already implied by using her stage name in the previous line? IDK. These are the small details I'm talking about. Which is why I wrote a post regarding my decision about a small detail.

  9. #9
    lenric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    Because you're kissing her ass.
    30 fucking characters.

  10. #10
    robione is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Making sense of this / "Friend Zone" escape / Reclaiming the Alpha

    Fair enough.

    (Character limit is a little silly.)


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