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Thread: 27 y/o virgin facing LMR - need help ASAP please

  1. #1
    Lindstrom is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default 27 y/o virgin facing LMR - need help ASAP please

    Hi guys, first post on these forums. I read The Game when it came out years ago. It piqued my interest and I looked into some materials back then, but it sort of fell by the wayside as I focused on school, and more recently, my career.

    I am a 27 year old virgin. I was extremely shy as a child, probably for a number of reasons. My parents are immigrants from China, and I didn't learn English until I went to kindergarten. I had a lisp without realizing it until I was 15, and I fixed it. I was overweight until I started to do something about it after hitting 200 at the same age, getting into running for a number of years and more recently into weights. While I've never been confused for ripped, I am in fairly good shape these days by most standards.

    I wore hand-me-downs until I got my first part-time job at 16 and earned some spending money for myself. Over the past 5 years I've developed a sense of style, and now know what looks good and what doesn't.

    I've been working for close to three years, and am going to start earning ok money within the next 3 months, and good money within a few years.

    I'm completely different from the shy kid in high school. I can talk to girls (not strangers or picking up really--social circle primarily), make them laugh. I'm fairly intelligent and well read. I'm a decent looking guy (though the girls I usually prefer are Caucasian and would generally not be attracted to me initially on a pure looks basis).

    However, throughout this entire time I have been a virgin. There were points in time (that could be counted on one hand) where I had opportunities without trying--the first was at 19. At the time, I was so naive I didn't recognize what it for what it was. She was not super hot but very sweet and cute in a way. Going back, I would have done it differently.

    I worked with a girl in a hotel a few years ago who was pretty cute (HB7.5) and told my friend she liked me. When we chatted, she would drop IOIs. I didn't know how to deal with it even though I knew she was interested. That culminated with a group of us from work going out one night; I was there before her. As soon as she came in and saw me, she told me that she had a dream that the two of us were making out. I laughed it off. Later that night, after a few drinks, she grabbed me and initiated make out at the club. After we stopped, she asked me if it was the first time I had ever made out with a girl (it was; I was 22 at the time--still the only full blown make out until last week). I mumbled something incoherent and walked away, leaving a bit later with some friends without saying goodbye. For all intents and purposes, that was the end of that.

    There were another couple things here and there, which I dropped the ball on but could have followed through on with some knowledge and effort. As well as not being a farking pussy. Which leads into my request for assistance.

    - I met this girl a couple months ago during the summer (May or June) via a local Meetup. Exchanged digits, but a lot of people did so, so it wasn't anything special.
    - We both work downtown, so made plans with her for lunch via text. She texted before we met up that she was seeing somebody but would meet up as friends. Ok whatever. She also ended up inviting another guy from the Meetup (a bit of an alpha male, but really just a total tool) to join us. We met for lunch, chatted a bit before the other guy showed up late because he had nothing better to do but to bus in from 30 minutes away. As I disliked the guy, I left after eating making an excuse to go back to the office and they stayed for probably another 15 minutes.
    - Didn't expect to hear back from her. A week later she texts me on Friday after work asking to get together for a drink (we live in the same neighbourhood). We meet up and get pretty tipsy on doubles. I was going to a small party and invite her to tag along; she accepts. She leaves the party early without saying goodbye; I text her to see what's up and basically confirm my suspicions that she's a bit of a head case (she mentioned that she was trying not to see her ex who worked in a bar close to my friend's apt).
    - Try to meet up with her a couple times, doesn't work out (I have no text game at this point).
    - Finally get another meet up with her in July at a neighbourhood street festival (it's a big thing, trust me). We hang out for about 4 hours, including a stop at my place to drop off the bike I had with me. We run into no fewer than 10 people I know on the street (DHV--she is from the suburbs originally and joined Meetup to get a social circle in the city). She leaves as she had to meet up that night with the guy she was seeing (never referred to him as her boyfriend, ever).
    - I get busy for two months studying for a big professional exam. Try to meet up a couple time; doesn't work out. Still no text game. In fact, a girl messages me on Tinder and we go back and forth for a few weeks before meeting up. Had a good date, but only peck on the lips goodnight. We text for a bit over the next few days, and less and less until a few weeks later it just stops. This episode essentially makes me realize that I have to get text game, even though I hate texting.
    - Text her last Saturday after a FB exchange the day before. She liked the link to the Jimmy Fallon/Joseph Gordon-Levitt lip sync off I shared and commented "JGL is my Hollywood crush." I reply "haha mine too."
    - In return, I commented on something she posted about not wanting Breaking Bad to end with "haven't you heard? The sequel is Malcolm in the Middle" (bad internet joke reference); she responds "LOL!"
    - My texting was some fluff--what's doing? she responds. i'm going for a walk in the rain (first storm of fall) and ask if she wants to join. she declines and says she has dinner plans. i'm basically ready to sign off, "guess i'll catch ya another time!" she references the breaking bad finale, and we fluff about that quickly, she invites me to watch at her place, says bring drinks for myself.
    - The good stuff (sorry it took so long): We watch the show. Nothing is happening physically but I'm sitting close to her and having good conversation. I'd brought a joint along with my booze and I ask if she wants to partake, she accepts. We watch the follow up "Talking Bad"; I'm decently stoned but under control. Our legs are touching and I feel some sexual tension (on my end anyway), there is some light kino going on as well. She offers me gum at some point as she gets some.
    - The follow up show ends; its only about 830. I've had 2-3 drinks but am ok to drive; she says she doesn't have to go to bed until 11 and I'm welcome to stay to sober up. I agree and we throw on The Bourne Identity, which was on TV.
    - After a few minutes of continuing to sit really close to each other, I make to get more comfortable and lie down on the couch with my feet pushing into her back. She laughs and curls up as well, but on the other side. After another few moments' hesitation, she decides to join me on my side. We are spooning, I put my arm over her.
    - After a few minutes like this, I adjust downwards on the couch, so that our bodies are more aligned. She responds by pushing her ass back into me, which is now my groin area post-adjustment.
    - Another 5-10 minutes of watching the movie (possibly after an intense Famke Jannsen/Matt Damon scene has occurred), I post up on my arm, look at her over her shoulder, and straight up ask her (because if I didn't do anything I would kick myself for being a pussy, which is what happened the last time I was in a similar type situation) if she wants to make out. She responds, "are you trying to make a move on me?" I say something in the affirmative and we commence make out.
    - This is really nice at this point because its the first time in my life I've initiated make out. Also, she is cute, unlike another girl who is interested in me at the moment.
    - I escalate and get her bra off, with her help (had some trouble with the clasp). There are breasts (non-strippers) in front of me for the first time. I watch porn, so I do stuff with them that she seems to like but I feel could have been done better. After a bit she wants to stop, and I agree (have read a bit about the freeze out? however, we're at her place). We continue watching the movie sitting next to each other.
    - She mentions her sore back/legs from a race she did that morning at some point; I'd mentioned earlier in the night (pre-kino) that I did a weekend massage course a few weeks ago. I offer to massage her, she accepts and goes over to her bed (studio apt).
    - I work on her shoulders, move to her back and escalate. Her breasts are out again as we make out, and this time I put my hand down her yoga pants. I can feel that she is shaved with some stubble, this is awesome.
    - She wants to stop again, asks if that's ok. I am trying to follow the freeze out principle but I'm not sure its working. I agree, and say something along the lines of "of course; we don't have to do anything you don't want to do. i'm fully clothed (or something)"--I only took my sweater off early in the night, never even got the t-shirt off myself during this whole time.
    - Go back to couch and watch movie, spoon again. Make out again. No breasts.
    - She wants to stop again, its getting somewhat late (I've been there for over 4 hours at this point). Have some water and get ready to leave.
    - Linger by the door and make out some more. She stops it and wants me to leave; walks me out because I mentioned she forgot her laundry. Kiss goodnight and a hug.
    - Text her before bed that I forgot my watch (legitimately, but good excuse to meet up again). We text a bit with good text game (light and playful) the next morning (she initiates). I send the last text which she doesn't respond to, but we are both at work.
    - Text her later that night basically asking if she wanted to come over for dinner since I was cooking. She declines as she's tired.
    - She's doing a rock climbing Meetup that night so text her telling her to have fun and let me know how it goes.
    - She responds the next morning: "It was fun! My arms are so sore today; etc."
    - I'd tried to respond Wed night but didn't know my outgoing texts were farked. I said "Lol do your arms need a massage now." Her "Lol no but you can come get your watch tho if you want"
    - I'd starting reading Braddock's Text and Phone Game as of Tues night (lol) so had a better idea of what to do. We text back and for about two hours off and on. She has an autocorrect error: "I can't call myself a *blank* fan; I hop on the bang wagon." Me: "The bang wagon eh--what is that exactly" Her a few min later: "Lol. I can't explain."
    - I make one more reference to it and let it go. It doesn't appear that she's responding to suggestive language.
    - She wants to smoke some weed (neither of us are potheads for the record). Her: "sooo...i could blaze again if you have any??" Me: "lol. tonight? do you have the day off" her: "lol nope. but if i'm in bed by 12 its ok" It's around 9-930, I'm tired, and don't want to appear desperate or overly eager to meet up. Make plans to meet up tomorrow which she agrees to.
    - Confirm with "i'll buzz you tmr then. for around 7-8?" "i'm just really tired. like you on mon haha"
    - Her after a few minutes: "ok sounds good" "ummm but i'm gonna let you know, we aren't hooking up" "i just wanna be friends" "and not friends with benefits" in rapid succession
    - I don't really know what to do here. It's clearly a sh1t test. I message one of my natural friends, who provides the winner that I text back 10-15 min later: "whoa. what kind of slut do you take me for?"
    - Her, immediately: "hahahahaha!"
    - Me, signing off: "i'll see you tomorrow. have to sleep "

    So, we are going to meet up tomorrow. Assuming she doesn't flake (I'd also referenced earlier in the texting "letting" her watch the *blank* hockey game with me on Sat), and we meet up, how do I approach this?
    - Hug upon meeting or peck on the lips? Full kiss or no? (feels like a no for full kiss)
    - I'm thinking drinks at a local bar. Hoping she forgets the watch so I have a built in reason to go to her place. If she doesn't I'll walk her home anyway.
    - Escalate or kino in bar? Or wait until later in the evening playing the friend game until we're at her place?
    - How to get past the LMR?!?!?!

    Sorry for the long post, again. Hoping for some help and quick answers as this is going down in less than 24 hours. In fact, I've spent the last 1.5 hours typing this damn thing up and am going to be tired at work tomorrow haha.

    For the record, I am actively attempting to be more social/positive and changing my mindset regarding approaching. I think I'm actually more than ok once I'm actually just talking to a girl. And I'm not obsessed or fixated on this girl, beyond the fact that she's cute and seems to be into me, it would be a shame to let this opportunity pass me by like the others. I don't think I want a relationship with her, but would like FWB.

    Thanks in advance for any responses.

  2. #2
    meteora's Avatar
    meteora is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Re: 27 y/o virgin facing LMR - need help ASAP please

    I believe you are overthinking this one, clearly she likes you, she just doesn't want it to be a one night thing. it seems to me that you are pushing a little too hard for sex, (its a mistake I made too when I was a virgin)

    try to keep your interactions shorter, I would have settled for the first make out and then held off a bit to create some sexual tension, instead of using freeze outs, just go from making out to talking again and then kiss her when she tells you something about herself that you like.

    keep building comfort and she should have sex with you in a week or two.(she made out with you and let you play with her boobies, she wants it) don't overthink this too much, you just need to get to make her a little bit more comfortable around you. also use compliance tests to build a higher level of compliance witch is needed for sex (i'm going to assume that you have close to enough comfort, just not enough compliance)

  3. #3
    MiikusMaximus is offline PUA in Training
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    Thumbs up Re: 27 y/o virgin facing LMR - need help ASAP please

    Meteora is definitely on the right track. Let's get a little deeper. I almost feel like I shouldn't share this stuff because it's so powerful, but you seem like a good guy who genuinely respects women and wants to leave them better than you found them.

    Quote Originally Posted by meteora View Post
    try to keep your interactions shorter, I would have settled for the first make out and then held off a bit to create some sexual tension
    Good. David D's famous Two steps forward, one step back technique. So you kiss softly...begin a more passionate kiss then restrain yourself and go back to kissing softly for a moment then stop. Converse (comfort) as if nothing happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by meteora View Post
    instead of using freeze outs, just go from making out to talking again
    Yes. As if nothing has happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by meteora View Post
    and then kiss her when she tells you something about herself that you like.
    No. Only reward her when she complies. It's not what she says, it's that she answers or follows your lead.

    Quote Originally Posted by meteora View Post
    keep building comfort and she should have sex with you in a week or two.
    Only if you have to. It's gonna be way more comfortable to not have blue balls for this girl for two weeks. Better to just have sex now. Have sex the very next time you hang out.

    Quote Originally Posted by meteora View Post
    (she made out with you and let you play with her boobies, she wants it) don't overthink this too much, you just need to get to make her a little bit more comfortable around you.
    Yes, but this is a different kind of comfort. She needs to know that it's OK to have sex with you because you're not a psycho stalker or weirdo, and that you know what you're doing. It's definitely displayed in the moment. You can do this by syncing with her resistance.
    The attitude to have is (and I've even said these things to women I slept with that same night) "I don't care if we have sex. I'd like to do it, but it's not a big deal either way. Let's just hang out and enjoy each other." And/Or "That's cool. Don't do anything you don't want to do or aren't comfortable with...But don't pass up on something you do want to do." Kiss her head or some equally benign display of affection. Resume normal conversation. "Tell me more about (what you said earlier)."

    Quote Originally Posted by meteora View Post
    also use compliance tests to build a higher level of compliance witch is needed for sex (i'm going to assume that you have close to enough comfort, just not enough compliance)
    Agreed, here's an example of how to do it (this is a big compliance test.):
    Let's say you're sitting on the couch, you lay down and put your feet in her back. She laughs and her eyes sparkle at you. Invite her over to cuddle by patting the empty space next to you.
    A. She comes and cuddles. Reward her by softly petting her head, saying something like "good girl", and turning her face towards you and kissing her softly and lingeringly on the lips. Stop escalation and resume watching the movie.
    B. She curls up on the other side of the couch. Punish her by ignoring her until she complains by initiating conversation or physical contact. Invite her over again by opening your body language and giving her an expectant look. If she complies see response A.

    OK. One last thing in this example. Let's say she cuddles with you like the good little girl she is. It's ok to absent mindedly and as softly as possible to run your fingers gently up and down her arm or leg or whatever is within comfortable range of motion. Continue doing this until she snuggles closer to you. Reward her with a little more escalation such as making out for a minute then continuing to relax comfortably. Resume stroking you'd pet your cat or dog.

    Usually I refrain from such specific advice, but you're so close to getting it my balls sympathetically ache for you. Keep in mind that there is far far more to this than can be effectively shared in a forum post.

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