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Thread: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

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    andrewkrs27 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Exclamation Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    let me preface this by saying I'm almost 23 and I'm a virgin, never been on a date, never even kissed a girl. i have aspergers and never learned how to properly socialize or talk to people. I've never had someone come on to me and i have no idea what it looks like. this girl always seemed uninterested in me for the 10 weeks i knew her and now all of a sudden, well, you tell me if this is a come on. my main question though is what can i do when i see her? we have a class together on wednesdays. I'm on meds that can't mix with alcohol. i can go off them for a few days but thats really more of a plan c or d. do i ask her out? ask for her #? say the party was fun? read below...

    i went to a party friday. when i got there (45 min late) she sounded almost relieved and happy. she led me around (i think she pulled me but it i don't recall for sure) trying to introduce me to people. she led me to her bedroom and told me to put my coat on her bed. then she introduced me to more people (including her sister, some PUA's say if they want you to meet family that means something but idk after all this was a party) but there were a lot of people and she was hosting so after she introduced me to her roommate she gave up. skip to the end (there is more but I'm saving you time) and the only people still there were her roommate, her sister, her sisters (possible boy)friend, her, and myself. She you have a coat in my room, right? ill take you to get your coat. it didn't sound like she was saying she wanted me to leave but (having no experience) i took get your coat to mean you over stayed your welcome. she slowly led me to her room and saw the 2 items on the bed. she asked which was mine and then said oh wait thats my scarf. I joked "it sure aint mine" (that sure aint a funny joke) and she quietly laughed and started to carefully hang it up. in my twisted mind i tried to be helpful and instead of waiting for her to hand me my jacket i picked it up myself, thinking a) she said get your jacket so she wants you to leave and b) her sister is in the other room so whats gonna happen anyway. when she saw me holding my jacket she slowly led me out of her room once again reiterating how happy she was i could make it. before i could put my coat on she hugged me and it was long enough that i broke it first, though if i had held it a moment longer she would have. she said bye to me and every time i said bye, she said bye back. even when after the other 3 people still there said bye and i said bye to them she said bye back. i actually said bye and left quick so not to get stuck in another loop. during one of the byes she said see you in class on wednesday.
    like i said, i have a class with her on wednesday from 7-10 pm and i missed the signs at the party and didn't make a move. Now after class i can't tell whats in her head.

    I placed the entire party story at the bottom if that helps but i wanted get through this first.


    when i was at her place i didn't drink, just water. she asked about it though. its kinda complicated, I'm not sure if this is reason enough to say i can't go to a bar w/ her and not drink.


    when I got there she offered me a drink and I said no thank you maybe later then she left to play host or someone called her over or something. i think she was called over but i don't remember for sure. so she introduced me to her roommate and left. her roommate offered me a drink and i answered the same but my medicines side effect is dry mouth and it was worsened by nerves and i slurred real bad. bad enough that i stopped and said it again real slowly but i made a joke about doing so (not the first time, its not a good joke and not worth the hit because its self depreciating but its enough to cover and its better to acknowledge your goof then to pretend it didn't happen) then it occurred to me to explain it in away that every one there would get and would explain my being so late. i told them i was already too drunk and it wasn't my first halloween party of the night and needed to sober up a little before i drank. the roommate laughed at my slowed down repeat like i intended and offered me water after the explanation. i drank water the rest of the night.
    at the end of the night katelyn asked if i had enough to drink then remembered i just drank water and asked if i was sober enough to drive and as i type this is occurs to me that both those questions could have double meanings
    offering more alcohol-if it were a guy giving it to a girl id assume he wanted to sleep with her
    sober enough to drive-can you make it home, maybe you should stay here a little longer/ if genders were reversed id think she wanted take advantage


    After class yesterday, Nothing happened. At all. Not even close. She did not wait. I caught up discreetly cause she stopped near some stairs I could take so I walked by, noticed the other scarf (she wore a different one), and said "now that scarf i might of kept". She forgot the joke. I said you must've been drunker than I thought, "oh, did I miss a joke I hate that" and she gave me a look that was obviously explain it to me. i made her work for it "it wasn't that good of a joke, not a big deal, etc" and she kept giving me a more pleading(?) look then I said when I left Friday we went in your room and on your bed was just my coat and your scarf then she remembered. I think she laughed it was kinda weird though. It was clear that I should just keep walking. I felt like if i stayed longer it would have gotten weird because i walked that way to take those stairs and the convo woulda started feeling forced.


    We talked a little as a group. She asked me a few prying(?) questions. She commented on how she wouldn't want to date a military man, especially not active, knowing I was ex army. She asked what I was doing now and kinda if I liked it and if I was going to pursue acting professionally now (which at the time I thought sounded like "are you definitely done serving")
    We only had a 10 min break and the teacher came back before I could improve the convo cause there was a new student who kinda engrossed her. I talked to them both though for most of it but they did that girly rapid talk thing once and I gave up but they slowed quickly and I was involved again
    She sat next to me at one point and she didn't need to but it didn't feel like anything but a convenience for her to see better.


    because of the other girl, i didn't have time to ask her about her self

    I thought maybe i should ask her about a thanksgiving party next week when i see her, try to recreate the situation a bit.


    as far as after tonight, my new theory is there was some attraction formed during the last class (possibly because instead of trying talk or smiling at her trying be appealing, I spent a lot of it looking at her (during the few times I did) through squinted eyes, trying figure out what was going on (in her mind possibly sizing her up). On Friday i showed up when she was already tipsy so that + the small attraction I built + possibly the added edge from the pheromones triggered a response and when I didn't pursue her (honestly I put more effort into her roommate and sister which wasn't much since they both felt unavailable) it made her want me. When I left I entered the borderline Friend Zone. I don't feel like I'm in there but today I felt like she was sizing me up, like she wasn't sure if maybe that's what I should be. The reason I didn't get her # or ask her to the bar is because the girl she was talking to introduced herself to her by mentioning a guy hitting on her and the subject of stupid ask outs came up and she said she hates when people just say out of nowhere … and since I couldn't talk much I felt like asking after was too out of nowhere. She had also said she might be meeting someone after (I think she said a friend but I didn't hear for sure) and she was checking her phone and I thought it would be weird to wait or offer to wait.


    I also kinda felt like since I was circling the friend zone I should step back, regroup, and figure out something I can say that would subtly knock me out. Something under the radar that would put me on hers. The scarf thing not working means she forgot what she felt last week.


    Do u have an idea what I can say to knock me from katelyns friend zone radar b4 it's solid? Sexual implication is definitely good on her but I'm not sure how to be subtle
    I dont think I'm friend zone. i think I'm more than "nothing" now but i think she hasn't placed me in friend or potential lover either. i think if i had moved on friday, i would be the latter but not moving may have made her question the attraction she built. I think today she may have been testing me and I think I played it well enough to keep me out for now but i need a Set of lines i can use to secure my ground.



    I posted the whole night below. i figure you probably have enough info but if theres further questions, its below (if you read the ENTIRE thing and then post, the prologue part will probably lead to an interesting debate about Body Language, flirting, and female subtlety, as i think it should, but i more urgently need to know what i should say now):

    prologue: we had an 8 week class. the first week i saw her and i thought she was hot. i had 2 concert tickets for that saturday so i asked if she had plans. she thought for a second then kind of counted in the air the days she had to work and said she couldn't. then she joked that with the amount of days she just had off, she'll be working everyday forever. she didn't seem like she was blowing me off, it felt like it was, uh, more than friendly, i guess? barely though.

    every class after that she was relatively indifferent. she didn't seem interested in talking to me unless i asked a direct question and then it would be a simple answer. i quickly gave up on her, i figured if she isn't gonna give me the chance then why should i even bother. she's only kinda hot anyway, not really worth fighting that attitude. there was one day where we both stayed after class to talk to the teacher, but when she was done she sprinted away. at first i thought she didn't want to stay by me but i noticed she caught up with our class so i think they went to the bar. i usually didn't go because i was only ever asked once so i didn't always know when they went, i was always tired by the end of class, and i can't drink right now anyways.

    the last class she was early so she and i talked for a little while about pretty much nothing. the only relevance is that i asked if she was gonna sign up for the second part of the class, she said probably not, i said i did and at least 2 other people told me they already did, she said she'd think about it, then someone else showed up and she started talking to them. the last night i did go to the bar, everyone did, even the teacher, and we all talked for a few hours, but we were all kinda grouped apart. while i was taking to a couple of the girls there, she mentioned her dia de los muertos party. i asked when it was and she said i said i was already going. i said i didn't even know about it, she said thats weird, idk y i thought u already confirmed, etc. so She told me it was the day after halloween because she didn't like dealing with a costume and she'd send me the info on facebook. the next day or 2 later i didn't get any info so i sent a message asking for the party info figuring if she was humoring me when she said that then i won't get it anyway but she's the type to have a lot of girl friends and if i can go, then i definitely should. i realized later that what might have made her think i confirmed is that before i heard her mention a party, i was talking about foreign languages with those girls and i had said i stink at foreign languages and barely passed spanish and one girl spoke in another language that i didn't know then she said dis de los muertos and i said i know that one. any way 3 days after i messaged her she messaged me back (both on facebook, i don't have her phone #) "It's Friday Nov. 1st starting around 9:30! I live pretty far North off Loyola Red line. ____ W. ____ apt #_. " needless to say i changed the address #'s. its not like anyone here would track her down, i just think there are boundaries.

    the second class skipped week 1 so the first week was week 2. as usual i was early. there was one other person there so i talked to him. unusually she was third. i was surprised to see she had decided to sign up. i was the only one she knew so when i initiated a conversation she talked to me for a little while. it was simple, "so you decided to continue," etc.
    she is a social person and quickly started talking to other people as i dropped the conversation and more arrived. the first part was lectury but the second part was on stage (i think i forgot to mention I'm an actor and this was a class at second city) so when we went up we ended up getting partnered for what we had to do. it was fairly simple, we were practicing refining our improv skills so we can hone scenes from 7 pages to 3 funny sentences. basically finding something out of nothing. finding the funny in junk so if our improv partners give us crap, the show is still good. the assignment went down the line so that everyone then their partners would do it. first someone made a sound line a grunt or a sigh then the partner would turn that into a funny line then the original would complete the joke. then an innocuous line that had no tone what so ever then funny line then complete the joke. about halfway through class her body language seemed to shift and it felt like she was more in my favor. i figured i was reading too much into it since she had always nothing'd me and there was another girl (i think she has a bf but idk for sure) that was kinda cute and i figured that was the only girl that i had a chance with so i focused more on her. then she started adding sexual undertones to the assignment. its not uncommon in these classes but i don't remember her doing that during those other 8 weeks. thats not to say she didn't, i stopped paying much attention to her, but they woulda been more subtle. for example, my innocuous line was "boy, it sure got dark fast" (i admit i half hoped it would kinda take a direction like this but i was mostly thinking about the fact that it was raining so bad that it was pitch black by 5:00) she responded "there is no way i'm having sex with you tonight" i replied, after some strategically placed fake pained expression (trying make it obviously sarcastic) "ouch"

    this last paragraph of the prologue is filled with paranoia and I'm probably reading too much into it. i just posted whats in my head so that you can tell me "yes your insane" or "no that is a signal of something" by itself id say I'm insane but partnered with the party... maybe? idk that y i need you
    the last part of class just had groups of 3's on stage while the rest watched, the content is irrelevant. when she got off stage she switched seats. the seats were like an L and she was on the end so she couldn't see the performers well. this is probably irrelevant but if i was to really break it down she sat next to a guy but it was the first open seat facing the from and if she did want next to me and she sat next to me she would probably assume id read into that to. she also could have wanted a better seat for the display she put on (again probably way over breaking this down) i was in the last group (i wouldn't have seen her where she sat before) and she fixed her lip stick while i was up there. it was 10 pm on a wednesday. I'm not sure where she would have been going that needed it.



    that night: i got back from the party at 2 am, having left her house at 1:40 am, and I'm confused. idk what to make of it. is this just friendly or was it more. I'm very thrown.

    the party started at 9:30 and i got there at 10:15, fashionably late. i wasn't last but the party had been well started. she seemed surprisingly happy to see me, but given that she usually nothings me, that doesn't mean much. when i got there and she buzzed me in (idk if this means anything, as i don't get invited to many parties) i didn't even say my name. i just said hey and she immediately buzzed me up and she waited for me at the door. i don't remember if she hugged me or grabbed my arm or what she did but i don't think it was nothing. she said something like I'm sooo glad you made it, let me introduce you, etc. nothing was insincere. I've seen her act. she's talented but i watch actors (professional, amateur, and her) enough to have an idea if someone is putting on a show.

    she started introducing me to a bunch of her friends, so far i only knew 1 person there but there were a lot and she gave up after like 5 or 6 of her friends and her sister. I'm told that its really good if someone introduces you to their friends, only thing better is their family. i doubt this counts but i really don't know considering I'm the only person i [literally] saw being introduced around. i use the qualifier literally b/c i assume that, in the beginning, if someone didn't know someone she introduced them. i was also outside when some people came in, though i doubt i was out long enough for introductions but who knows. also i know that there was a couple that came and weren't introduced but she could have also just decide with me there were too many people to try to do introductions and people should do it themselves. i think she did say that to me when she gave up with me, so maybe she gave up on even doing a couple introductions.

    there were a bunch of cute girls there (less than id expected, enough to try something) but unfortunately i choked a little and nothing came across as flirting, i think. also, my current medicine prevents me from drinking alcohol and causes dry mouth so when i got there my mouth got so dry so quick that i almost immediately sounded drunk off my ass. i think i covered well though, when she introduced me to her roommate and then left, her roommate offered me a drink i said it so quick and dry mouthed the words ran together so bad i had to repeat and say slower no thank you. then i covered and told her i came from another party and already had a bit to much to drink, then smirked a bit. she smiled and kinda chuckle/laughed and asked if i wanted some water. i made a joke about my i probably should and my needing sobering up. there was a joke i made to her hot sister but i think it came across as more creepy, she clearly forgot about it quickly but i kinda lost it after that.

    i had a hard time talking to people and was a little overwhelmed so i decided to stop trying to make conversation with the women who clearly weren't having it anyway (katelyn was too busy talking to people and i decided it was best to give her space and let her come to me if at all. i figured id look bad trying navigate the crowd and desperate if anyone made the obvious guess why, not to mention the fact that i was having difficulty talking in general and would look pretty bad in general) and i started to talk to the guys, who were friendly. she had a bunch of guys (at this point just gay guys, if thats relevant to how i come across to the people who saw me) and i ended up talking to them for quite a while. they were nice and their careers/schooling was a former hobby of mine so it was easy to connect with them and we talked for a while. the reason I'm emphasizing this is b/c i know that everyone says that in social situations you should let the girls see you talk to other people. i can't remember if it was specific if it was just girls or not. we went outside for a little while cause the apt was warm and we needed fresh air.

    idk if my specifying their sexuality came across as my caring so i just want to say, on a side note, i couldn't care less. as far as I'm concerned to each his own. I'm not for or against, i just don't give a damn. its their business, not mine or anyone else's. the only reason i brought it up is because the books say SOMETHING about making sure girls see you socialize. i liked talking to them anyways so whatever you say here isn't actually relevant, its more a mild curiosity, but i don't remember what the book said and if it was just other girls idk. though I'm betting that its just seeing you talk to people as a people person. also considering how much the girls there liked them, it can only help, right?

    when i came inside i saw some people i knew showed up so i talked to them for a while and we got closer. the girl who threw the party, thats confusing me (katelyn, so i can save typing and confusion later), was close to them so she joined us shortly after i did. then the tinder conversation started. katelyn is real into tinder and a girl that i was talking to had a date from tinder on sunday so katelyn started asking about it. katelyn may have said she did too, i dot recall. the way katelyn talked, i get the feeling its less about the guys she's talking and more about the prospect of meeting someone. i think she definitely wants a relationship.

    after that i started talking to her sister and her sisters friend. lately and her sister brought up how crazy close they were and how they were the best sisters and how everybody says that but they were actually true. her sister and friend are both still in school. i don't know the age of her sister but I'm guessing the same as the friend who was about 2 years younger than me. katelyn is i think 3 years older than me, while I'm on the subject. anyway we talked about school and i became friends with the friend and so on. then everyone kinda gathered near us till the party died down. the sisters friend is a boy, i forgot to mention. they didn't say wether or not they were dating, and the way i left makes this relevant.

    eventually the only people left were me katelyn, her roommate, her sister, and her sisters friend. my plan was to offer to help clean up but it became clear that they weren't planning to do any real cleaning, at best stacking the cups and blowing out the remaining candles. i felt if i offered id look needy. when the last person, aside from me and that guy, left katelyn said to me (not the guy) "are you leaving to?" it was definitely not forced or anything, it seemed like she asked cause it looked like everyone was leaving and not like she was trying to get rid of me. still, it felt like i should "punish" her so i said something like "i wasn't, why, should i be taking a hint or something?" with a smirk. she scrambled with the no's, it just looked like everyone was going, etc. then we talked for a few more moments about nothing special but her roommate was wrapped up in a blanket on the couch and i got the sense that she was done and ready for the apt to be empty. the main reason i hadn't left yet was cause that guy was there and so was her sister and i thought the party wasn't done yet. there was also the small hope that "something" could happen with someone. it occurred to me at that moment that the sister may be staying there that night and what if the boy was with the sister and staying there or he was with her and they were gonna leave together but the crazy close sisters wanted be together longer or something. i decided it was better that i go before they had the chance to ACTUALLY be sick of me. i got the distinct vibe that they weren't there yet but if i didn't leave soon, they might be. everybody kept their coats in katelyns room she led me in to get mine. there were 2 things on the bed so she said (i get the impression for the sole purpose of just to keep taking) "which is yours, oh wait this is mine," she paused so i joked "well, it sure aint mine" i chuckled "oooh, you don't want this beautiful scarf, fine, "she said, jokingly, curtly, "i'll keep it for myself" we left her room and she promptly hugged me, kinda tight, and said "I'm so glad you were able to make it tonight"
    i held her back. i definitely didn't hold on longer. we either let go at the same time or i let go first barely. she caught me by surprise and I'm not touchy feely. i know that if i didn't hug her back, thats bad. i know if i let go to quick, thats friends. the hug didn't feel long, to me, but i also know that I'm no good at gauging it, usually going for longer, and i thing it was a long one for a not socially awkward person. after we let go she said see you in class on wednesday. i said bye, the others there said bye so i said bye then she sad byes again so i said byes again and she may have did one more but i can't remember.

  2. #2
    cdharders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    The most attractive you can be is being fun, loud, and joking. She'll see you're a social friendly guy. Aside from that, you will have to escalate. Sooner is better.

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    andrewkrs27 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    most of that is easy, since its an improv class. its rare that its not funny, the teacher even broke it down into a comedy formula that is quite simple. unfortunately its tough to escalate in a class, at least physically. if i do a scene with her and make it good then maybe but thats assuming we stand at the same time, don't have an assigned character style/topic, and she lefts me go with it. lots of variables.
    do you have any ideas for small, subtle things i can do or say throughout class or on break that can help without catching the attention of the rest of the class?

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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    Forgive me, I skipped... a lot, but I think I understand your post.

    You're either going to have to isolate, or take her out. I vote take her out. Escalating attraction is needed too, big time.
    I wish I was little bit taller
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  5. #5
    andrewkrs27 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    Do u have advice how to do that?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewkrs27 View Post
    Do u have advice how to do that?
    Set up a time and place to meet up with her. Getting drinks is always a good option. Flirt with her and get her to laugh. Kiss her as early in the interaction as possible. Bounce to another location, preferably your place. Take her to a place where you can be alone together. Escalate with calibration, keeping it light and fun.

    Good Luck!
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    Last night was tricky. She didn't sit near me in class so I couldn't chat. Before class, I mentioned to her and the 2 others in the room that I went dancing for the first time. "On Monday I went dancing for the first time. Turns out I'm actually good. Who knew?" And she laughed at that then told us all about the club she went to and I got shoved out because someone else got there and asked her about it first. She did laugh at my scenes but they weren't flattering. I assume she knew they were all jokes but I doubt they built me up. After class we all saw an improv show so I couldn't get her to the bar. I found a 10 second window after the show and I fit in 2 callback jokes to the show which she cracked up then played along for the first 1 and cracked up a lot more for the 2nd. I thought I could try something but she stopped to put on her layers (it's cold in Chicago) and I lost my chance.

    I tried to double back but she was with the only other cutish girl in the class and all I could do was respond to their surprised look and then they said bye but they didn't stop walking at all. I think the other girl has a bf that's y I haven't tried.

    I didn't even have a chance for her #. Do u think it's time to Facebook her a standing ride home offer or mention the other callback humor or get her # that way?

    The only potential "signs" i noticed this week were that she looked unusually nice for class (hair down sleeker wavier and kinda sexy [at least i thought so], slightly nicer clothes, etc), laughed kinda hard at all my jokes (even the "who knew" dancing one), and that she talked friendly as opposed to the "nothing" i got a month ago.

    I doubt this is relevant but I think she mentioned she was 23. I thought she was 26, idk why, I'm not great at judging girls ages and she looked roughly the same age as a girl I thought I had a shot with and blew it that was 25. The reason I bring this up is that means we are the same age cause I'll be 23 in 2 months. I think she knows I'm 22 and idk if she knew i thought she was older. I just know she talked about it a bit last night.

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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    When I was 20 I was adding a 24 year old that is a difference 22m and 25f doesn't even factor you are approximately the same age. It is harder if you have a legal boundary like drinking age or club entrance age between you and target or obvious generational gap like growing up with an Atari 2600 as a kid versus play station or newer growing up.
    Learn to be a better person not a better player.

  9. #9
    andrewkrs27 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    I think i missed something. How does that answer my question? If that was about the age thing, I just put that in b/c its different from what I wrote earlier. I even said I think it's irrelevant. I assume Im not understanding something cause your usually pretty helpful and, to be frank, it looks like you answered the only paragraph that didn't matter and i didn't need advice on. I just thought, for anyone that read the entire beginning, It would give more detail. If it is relevant, can you explain cause I don't understand what you mean about the generational gap if she's, at most, a year older.

  10. #10
    andrewkrs27 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Im circling the friend zone. PLEASE HELP

    Last night was tricky. She didn't sit near me in class so I couldn't chat. Before class, I mentioned to her and the 2 others in the room that I went dancing for the first time. "On Monday I went dancing for the first time. Turns out I'm actually good. Who knew?" And she laughed at that then told us all about the club she went to and I got shoved out because someone else got there and asked her about it first. She did laugh at my scenes but they weren't flattering. I assume she knew they were all jokes but I doubt they built me up. After class we all saw an improv show so I couldn't get her to the bar. I found a 10 second window after the show and I fit in 2 callback jokes to the show which she cracked up then played along for the first 1 and cracked up a lot more for the 2nd. I thought I could try something but she stopped to put on her layers (it's cold in Chicago) and I lost my chance.

    I tried to double back but she was with the only other cutish girl in the class and all I could do was respond to their surprised look and then they said bye but they didn't stop walking at all. I think the other girl has a bf that's y I haven't tried.

    I didn't even have a chance for her #. Do u think it's time to Facebook her a standing ride home offer or mention the other callback humor or get her # that way?

    The only potential "signs" i noticed this week were that she looked unusually nice for class (hair down sleeker wavier and kinda sexy [at least i thought so], slightly nicer clothes, etc), laughed kinda hard at all my jokes (even the "who knew" dancing one), and that she talked friendly as opposed to the "nothing" i got a month ago.


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