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Thread: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

  1. #1
    Thommo98 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Hey guys,

    First off I'm going to give you the background. This girl has just broken up with her boyfriend of 1 year yesterday and I've had a thing for her for about a month. Yes, I have been sarging other girls in this time believe me, I don't have one-itis. She's a HB9 - and I'm being quite conservative here, if you saw her you'd agree. More importantly, she's my type of personality. We both work part-time at a tennis centre. I'm a coach whereas she works the counter.

    I see her about 3 times a week, and we get along really well. I talk to her from the frame of an older brother and she loves it. I'm constantly receiving IOIs and our conversations (even when she was with her boyfriend)have always been incredibly flirty. I tease her mercilessly about whatever it is on the day I feel like teasing her about, then turn around and accuse her of bullying me. Seriously guys, I'm actually scared of her . Everyone at the club knows that we have the hots for each other and it's become a bit of a fun talk subject. The last two weeks we've been associating numbers for each other on the hot-o-meter (out of ten) and we both agree that we're a 10.1 .

    At her insistence, I took her to the movies to see a comedy. We went alone (I guess she didn't want her boyfriend to know ) but, I didn't physically escalate out of respect for her relationship and the sh*t I would take at work for going for it while she was dating someone else. The most Kino we've had was on a night that we're pretty bored and we ended up just about cuddling. Nawww . She's fine with me touching her practically anywhere up to kissing and she knows that I'm a bit of a lady kill outside of work.

    So far so good, right? Well, just the other day on ask.fm (Yeah, yeah.. I know), I got this answer for a Honest Opinion I posted on her wall (She did one on mine first):

    "You are one of my very good guy friends, can tell you anything, I love our Friday night chats, and working with u on Mondays haha, we have funny as convos and you r such a great person!"

    This is the second time that I've been referred to as a friend by her, though perhaps she is trying to convince her now ex that she doesn't have feelings for me. Either way, it's not good that she's saying we're just friends. She does open up to me a lot, though never about her issues with her boyfriend. She tried once , I changed the subject and she's never brought him up since unless absolutely necessary. I have used the boyfriend destroyer over the last couple of weeks... must have worked .

    Anyways, I was hoping that one of you fine chaps could give me some insight as to whether or not I am in fact in the F-zone. If I am, some advice on how to change this wouldn't go astray. I'm no newbie to PUA, so I've got a relative idea of how to proceed but, I need to know how far up sh*t's creek I really am hahaha.

    Thanks guys,

    Thommo (Nova)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    There are two things I encourage you to do:

    1. Physically escalate
    2. Sexualize the conversation

    The main difference between a good female friend and a lover is the sexual component. The best way to figure out where you stand is to go for it. If she doesn't see you that way she will reject your advances and it's an upwards battle from there to get out of the friendship frame. She will respect you for at least trying. Not physically escalating is the key to winding up in the friend zone. She will not take responsibility for her own seduction, that's up to you to lead her there. If you never try, you'll never know. Good luck!

  3. #3
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    marvilo is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Honestly you're only friendzoned when she says "I only consider you as a friend" other than that you're good. You have to think outside the lines, she says one thing with her mouth yet she does another while flirting and letting you touch her sexually/cuddling. Don't mind her words, just keep gaming and remember to sexually escalate or she might get the sense that you only want to be friends. (Remember It's all about the actions. That's what speak louder than words.)
    You lose some you win some, learn from your mistakes and get better!

  4. #4
    Thommo98 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Thanks for the quick feedback guys.

    Dizzie, I agree completely with what you've said. I've been through all the physical escalation steps (right up to kissing that is) and we both touch each other all the time. As for sexualizing the conversation, I do this with little things like if she does something I really like, I tell her she's moved from being this hot (palm down somewhere low) to being this hot (palm slightly higher). Also, we've talked about party stories and stuff like that. I'm at an advantage with her because I'm also the best (or second best) player in the club, and hence have a whole lot of social proof. There are a lot of chicks there who are head over heels for me hahaha. Oh yeah, one time I was really tired and was caught checking her out - she didn't say anything, just sort of smiled and blushed.

    Thanks Marvilo, that's exactly the answer I was looking for.I was pretty sure that I wasn't in the friendzone but, I haven't exactly spent much time in anyone's friendzone hahaha. Cheers mate.

    Thommo (Nova)

  5. #5
    I.M.Mortal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Nova,

    Late response here. I am in a similar situation with as you with my salsa teacher so I have a lot of experience in this area.

    I wrote about my experience and game here.
    http://www.puaforums.com/pick-up-fie...make-full.html

    Lots has happened since with much progress. It is still going on.

    The girl currently has a bf of 2 years. Like you, I can kino but not kiss. By now, I know where my limits are with her and where her comfort level is. She doesn’t bring up her boyfriend or tell me of her problems nor ever asked me for help.

    Your girl referred to you as a “very good guy friend” because it is just a placeholder name. I mean really what is she going to call you? You are not her boyfriend...yet. You are not some insignificant co-worker. Even if you are the guy she is cheating with, that is the best title assignment you are going to get if she has to introduce you to someone publicly or formally. Girls say that a lot so do not put value on the words.

    What Dizzie said is true. The difference between a guy friend and a boyfriend is the sexual component. So you definitely want to sexualize the conversation. It is the only way to know. It is the only way to move the relationship forward.

    That example you gave is not really it. Let me be more specific regarding taking sexualizing the conversation a step forward without getting overtly sexual. It has to have a more “me + you” element to it. In PUA, future fantasy projection uses this a lot so you may want to start incorporating this.

    Here is an example of an in person conversation I had with my girl recently where I started to pull out all the stops and sexualized things. I asked her walk me out of the salsa club where she teaches. As we approached the exit, we stopped because there was a cold breeze. Being a girl, she was feeling it.

    ME: Okay, I lied. I tricked you to walk with me, so we can steal around the corner and have a hot make-out session. A little send off before you go on your trip. (I said it in a non serious fashion)

    She was speechless but amused.

    ME: Actually, I have bad news, a good news, and a bad news.
    ME: The bad news is –
    HER: What? You’re a stripper? (old inside joke from our conversation earlier in the day)
    ME: No that’s the good news.
    HER: Ah. *looks mirthful*
    ME: The bad news is I got a cold. Remember last week? The 7 hour starvation must’ve broke my immune system. So I was out of it most of the week.
    HER: Oh no...*Looking genuinely concerned*
    ME: The good news is I’m almost 100% recovered. That’s why I came out tonight.
    ME: The other bad news is that means no smooching. No making out between us. I don’t want to get you sick before your trip. *Feigning disappointment*
    HER: Aww, shucks. (plays along - IOI)
    ME: I know it blows. And also [a friend] is not coming.
    HER: Oh he is not?
    ME: I told him I won’t be here. March 20 to 22 I gotta work. And you won’t be here. But! He said he will come down end of May. And when he does, we grab [a famous choreographer] and we’ll party up with hip hop.
    ME: End of May...hopefully [salsa club] will still be here.
    HER: Yea, that’s kind of a stretch but we’ll see.
    ME: But you know what I want to do with you before allllll this is over? I want to steal you away one night and take a nice long walk on the beach. Mmhmm.
    HER: Aww, thank you...
    *she begins to get all flustered*
    ME: And at some point, I want to…

    I tried to grab her hand, but she was still clutching herself from the cold. She wasn’t being compliant and wouldn’t let go.

    ME: I want to wrap my arms around you in a nice tight cuddle...

    Instead I went around her and wrapped my arms around her. She squirmed and sidestep out. So the compliance failed up to this point, as she was taken back, as she thought I was going to kiss her. Or not sure if it’s because she knows I have a cold. So I eased up into a side hug (which she was fine with). FYI: women do not like you touching their stomachs unless they really trust you. It is a very vulnerable part on humans and women are more sensitive to it.

    ME: And we both stare out into the ocean...

    I point out in some direction in front of us.

    ME: At some point, a gentle breeze is going to hit us and mess up your hair. You’re going to turn to me and ask me if “do I look okay?” and I’m going to say “Of course. You look wonderful tonite.”

    Then I pushed her away.

    ME: BUT in actuality, you’ll look like a dork. (takeaway)

    I just stop and stare at her. She has a surprised look on her face and was speechless.

    ME: But! Not unless you have on those cute glasses. Oh my god....When I first saw you in them, I was in looooooooove. *I clutched my heart*
    *She smiles*
    ME: You have really cute eyes and those glasses really complement them well.
    HER: I guess I picked the right frame.
    ME: So when am I gonna see you in those glasses again, hmm? Show me yours and I’ll show you mine. (sexual innuendo/tease)
    HER: Well I can’t wear them at salsa or else they will fly off.
    ME: I know it’s too bad, the only time I see you is at salsa.
    HER: Not when we get tea. (BAM! She brings it up!)
    ME: That’s right! When you come back from your trip.

    I hug her goodnight.

    HER: Don’t get me sick.
    ME: Don’t worry I’m passed that. (wanted to say don’t worry I’ll wear protection, but thought that would be too much)

    So basically, I used a future fantasy projection to give her value and then I did a takeaway and then gave her back value regarding the glasses. Okay, so she didn’t let me kino her all the way, which is fine. Now I know her limits. She is a Denier in Vin DiCarlo terms. But the fact, she reminded me of our future unscheduled hangout to me is a victory of a bigger battle.

    So this is an example of a future fantasy projection I used on the fly to create a “me + her” vibe, speaking in the language of emotion. You want her to start visualizing you two together.

    So keep chipping away, keep using the bf destroyers. Eventually, you want her to start replacing her bf in her mind with you. You also probably have to play the long game with this girl. Rush things or escalate too fast and you run great risk of losing her.

  6. #6
    Thommo98 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Absolutely fantastic response! Thank-you so much for the time it must have taken to write. I see what you mean about the placeholder name. Yeah, what can she call me? More to the point, what would I call her?

    Also, I hear you about sexualizing the conversation. Come to think of it, I've actually used that exact line about no kissing while I've had a cold... or even when she's had a cold. That story with the romantic walk on the beach is awesome by the way - I hope you don't mind if I use it? I'm in Australia mate, we're not tuning the same girls here hahaha.

    No worries about rushing either. I'm super patient when it comes to sarging. I actually saw her this night. She's pretty cut up about breaking up with her boyfriend (even though she was the one to break it off). I only spoke to her for a couple of minutes, teased her a bit but you could see she wasn't into it so I backed off. It's only been a day since they broke up, so I'm not too plussed. It'll be different in a couple of days.

    Problem is, I'm caught up between leaving it too late and having another guy swoop in and being the 'rebound guy'. I can actually see us having a good relationship, and I don't want to dash those chances by pulling the trigger too quickly.

    Can anyone help me with an approximate time-frame as to when she'll be over her ex? I'll pretty finely attuned as to what I can get away with but, I have no clue in advance when she should be ready. Thanks guys!

    Thommo

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Bro your good.
    Just because a girl says one thing, doesn't mean anything.

    "I hate you so much kyle" with her screaming at me and throwing a knife at me is different from...

    "I hate you so much kyle" with a warm flirty smile, and positive body language.

    Its all about what her body is saying, and her actions.

    Just because a girl calls you a good friend, doesn't mean she isn't attracted to you. In some cases, like previous posters have said, that's the best thing she can call you.

    At work, to build attraction, kino + playful future fantasy projections + confidence is going to be your secret to success.

    Trust me, I'm like an expert at workplace dating. Lol. I could write out a long post, but i'll stop there. If you need help with anything specific, shoot me a message.

  8. #8
    I.M.Mortal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Problem is, I'm caught up between leaving it too late and having another guy swoop in and being the 'rebound guy'. I can actually see us having a good relationship, and I don't want to dash those chances by pulling the trigger too quickly.

    Can anyone help me with an approximate time-frame as to when she'll be over her ex? I'll pretty finely attuned as to what I can get away with but, I have no clue in advance when she should be ready. Thanks guys!
    That is a legit concern, but I wouldn't worry about the rebound guy. You know her best. Does she have a lot of guy friends outside of work? If yes, do you think any of them are making a move on her? Based on what you are telling me, you have no competition at work because ppl know you guys are the next item. Chances are a lot of these guy friends are friend-zoned. My girl is very popular in the salsa community and most of her friends there are guys. But the close ones that knows her well knew her from anywhere from 2 to 9 years. All friend-zoned. So, you could find out how long they knew her, by asking her some simple questions. And if there is a rebound guy, I am almost certain they won't last. That is a bet I would make in your favor.

    As for the time frame, there is no estimation anyone who doesn't know her well can tell you. It varies from women to women, the strength of the relationship and the time invested together.

    But if you are the reason for the breakup (you ended up replacing him in her mind) then you are the front runner. There is no competition and that is the mindset you need to adopt. I always say that there is NO COMPETITION for my girl. Why? Because I don't compete when I am the prize. Other guys can try but they might as well give up before they lose as they don't have much in common and can make her feel the way I do.

    If you believe in that you will be fine. In the meantime, now that she is free, you just need to start getting her out with you and facilitate the process and help her forget about him. And when I mean by that, show her a good time and do not let her talk about her ex. Let her do that with one of her many guy friends.

    Don't forget to use future fantasy projection. Also joke around and start calling her your girlfriend.

    Here is some examples I used on mine:

    One night at salsa walking her out of the club.
    HER: Did you get any dances tonite?
    ME: Just two. I'm being such a good boyfriend, I'm not making you jealous.

    She chokes from laughter and starts qualifying to me that she is not the jealous type at all and how she doesn't believe in that.

    Another night during a private lesson with her.
    ME: You know what sucks? I never had a girlfriend who was a dancer before. It will be nice. We can inspire each other.
    HER: Well. Maybe you will find one here! (at the club) *Not sure if this is one of her ambiguous statements, but sounds like it,
    ME: Screw that. That means I have to come out of Casanova retirement and work! I'm just going to borrow you instead. If anyone asks I'm just going to say "Yes, this is my girlfriend."

    I do go off telling her how I use to do that to my neighbors cat and call it my cat because it always comes around.

  9. #9
    Thommo98 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    Thanks Kyle,

    For sure, I'm over analyzing one word. Haven't we all been guilty of that at times? Yeah, I'm going to go for it. When I see something I like, I do everything I can to make it mine and this girl is no different. Thanks for the offer mate, I'll definitely get your opinion on future matters with this girl.

    Thommo

  10. #10
    Thommo98 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Need help with HB9 at work (possibly F-zone)

    I.M.Mortal, you are a legend! Thanks again for the helpful post.

    I actually found out recently that the reason for their breakup was because her boyfriend was being a chode the last couple of months. (through a mutual friend, not her) He's a real depressive type apparently. I may or may not have replaced him in her mind but, yeah I'll agree that out of anyone in her life at the moment I have the best shot.

    Yeah, I'm gonna keep getting her out of the workplace and use more future fantasy projections. I've joked around with her being my girlfriend before but that was back when she had a boyfriend hahaha.

    Wish me luck!

    Thommo


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