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Thread: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

  1. #1
    afcsupreme is offline PUA in Training
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    Default The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    Sup y'all, I've got a question regarding the notion of outcome independence in tandem with being forward and aggressively pursuing what you want.

    A girl I was dating told me about another guy who she knew; the guy was clearly interested in her, but she felt indifferent and didn't think of him as more than a friend. They had some email conversations; the guy would invite her to coffee each message, but she would ignore/kind of pass over the request and respond to the rest of the email, hoping he would take the hint, but he continued asking her out (which she was just not interested in). I felt really sorry for this guy, man that must've sucked...

    To give a bit of my own experience, I separated from this girl back in May, but over the summer we chatted a bit, and I tried to reconnect with her. I gave her an open invite once to an event, but she kind of did the same thing - ignored/didn't respond to the invitation, but replied to the other topics in the email conversation. I didn't want to be the guy in the story she told me that kept pestering her, so I pulled back and didn't invite her to an event again, taking things slower and more indirectly.

    Later, she said she wanted to stop contact with me essentially because I didn't seem to hold the same interest in her as she did for me (though I did, probably more >_>. I feel that I was still showing interest and she might've overreacted a bit, but I do accept responsibility that I might've pulled back too far). In the end, I got burned and lost her because I didn't go after what I wanted with enough/more conviction; my guess is, I think she became a little dejected and left me because I didn't reciprocate her interest properly. Even when she mentioned that she was around my area for the day (in retrospect, a huge display of interest, I couldn't meet her though), I only indirectly offered to meet her at a public event I was going to a few days later - I imagine she thought I wasn't interested in seeing her. I don't think I have the chance to show her she was mistaken, as she doesn't want to talk to me >_>. Just trying to learn from the experience now ;_;

    So my question is, how do you tread the line between the creepy guy that can't let go whom girls tell stories about to their friends, and the man who isn't afraid to go after what he wants and is detached from the outcome? How far can you push before you get into that territory? One thing is, it's SO much easier in person (where what words you say matter much less), but over e-communication this has become a problem for me.

  2. #2
    DirectIsBest's Avatar
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    I see this is old but I'm going to respond anyway. Being persistent isn't necessarily creepy. Usually if a woman is interested you can get her out in a couple tries. Sometimes you can't if she's really busy.

    I used to go by the "if she flakes 3 times she's not interested" rule and let it go but recently I changed. This has been my game plan as of late: Keep trying until it's VERY obvious she's not interested (stops responding to my texts) or she straight out tells me she's not interested.

    Why you ask? Because I don't give two shits about what she thinks. She is by no means the only girl I'm talking too. If it's something I want I will keep trying and have fun while I'm doing it. You can be persistent and be outcome independent. I know there's been women in my past that were definitely interested but I wasn't persistent and lost them or they were truly busy and I took that as disinterest. This way you know FOR SURE that she's not interested. You lose nothing. You can ONLY gain.

    If you see her in person after she made it clear she's not interested be very friendly, positive, and act like it never happened. Girls will be awkward after something like this when they see you and try to avoid you (that's how women are). If you make it a point to say hello with a smile on your face and talk too them the awkwardness disappears. I've even had some women who denied me change their minds after I saw them later because I was so cool about it and treated them like an old friend (Plus it helps if you're with OTHER women when you see her). AFC's would be awkward and not say anything to the woman. That's how you are outcome independent. Cheers!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    I agree with all of the points directisbest is saying. Ive encountered several women after an awkward encounter and it doesnt phase them if it doesnt phase you. The moment you address the problem and it surfaces with them they can't ignore it. So--do not bring it up.

    As for the line between creep and i think you're tryin to say confident guy is that the guy knows when to stop when there are signs to do so. Her not responding does not mean anything. Women know how tension works. They too will build tension to see how you react.
    Every moment counts, get out of your head and enjoy it.

  4. #4
    afcsupreme is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    DirectIsBest, artandale, Thanks for the advice y'all, I appreciate the revival of this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DirectIsBest View Post
    Why you ask? Because I don't give two shits about what she thinks. She is by no means the only girl I'm talking too. If it's something I want I will keep trying and have fun while I'm doing it. You can be persistent and be outcome independent........T his way you know FOR SURE that she's not interested. You lose nothing. You can ONLY gain.
    This resonates with me deeply man...I really needed to hear this. I've definitely been putting too much emphasis on what women will think of me - and that's affected my ability to be unabashedly forward and confident when inviting women out. I will definitely work on improving this aspect of my game as I move forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by DirectIsBest View Post
    I know there's been women in my past that were definitely interested but I wasn't persistent and lost them or they were truly busy and I took that as disinterest.
    In these cases, did you try to reconnect with the girls and clear up the misunderstanding (that they thought you weren't interested)? Or did you let them go? I know you mentioned that you sometimes randomly run into a girl who denied you previously, and had a good reaction (and that's actually how I ended up trying to reconnect with this girl I previously separated from, a random meeting). But the girl in question does not live nearby and is going to leave the country soon, so it's unlikely I will see her accidentally again...

    I have a massive urge in my gut to contact her and clear things up which has been driving me crazy, but my mind is telling me that'll be beta-backsliding. What complicates things is that she told me she doesn't want to talk anymore (the actual email is in another thread I posted), so I don't know if I even CAN reengage if it's appropriate to. I want to try and patch things up, but I don't know if I should...what do I do? Do I just let things go as they are (us separating because I didn't convey my interest level properly)?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    There is nothing to clear up... Only close and close again if she wants more....
    Every moment counts, get out of your head and enjoy it.

  6. #6
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    The line is only in your head.
    1) Date lots of women. You won't care about what one girl thinks or have a childish need to set things straight with past loves. Girls will be chasing you because you have momentum. When it rains it pours. Be thunder and lightning.
    2) I don't have a 3 flake rule. I have a 1 flake rule. If a girl likes you she will make it happen fairly quickly or initiate another time if truly unavailable. If not it's their loss, they miss out on your superior genes and that is the fundamental attraction in all life - survival and reproduction = better genes.
    3) No U-turns. I am always the one to break up relationships, I do it honestly and I never go back. I make strong decisions and stick to them. I have no bad blood with any ex and never get girls saying 'I dont want tot talk to you anymore' nor would I even think to continue engaging with her if she did say that. I choose wisely. If they come back to me wanting something casual here and there (sex) I will sometimes bite but ultimately I keep moving forward.
    4) Confidence is king. What matters more to a women is how you say things, not what you say. Go and get what you want and don't over analyse it like it's a football match.
    5) If a girl is unresponsive it's almost always because of the same old reasons: your just not her type, you don't know what you want and can't make a decision, she's insecure and or boring or you are to her, your immature in comparison to her, she is dating someone else, she's moving away, she just broke up with someone else etc.
    6) Action speaks louder than words.

    Be a role model man.

  7. #7
    afcsupreme is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    Ok, I hear you guys...I should probably move on and not contact her... But how do I do that exactly? I spent so much time with this girl, we had some great experiences together, and now things have ended essentially due to a misunderstanding (her thinking I didn't have interest in her when in fact I do, maybe even more than her for me >_>. Of course there's some other background context, but that's really what it boils down to).

    How do I move on from something like this (something which, had I had a better understanding of game/inner game principles, I could've avoided)? Another thing is, the way we separated wasn't exactly on good terms (her saying she doesn't want to talk anymore), and I really dislike having negative things as the last words spoken to each other (I posted the actual email conversation in a prior thread here: http://bit.ly/1rQJK1D )...I'm finding it difficult to accept the way we ended things, which is probably a big reason why I have this urge to contact her again. Maybe I just need to massage my ego I don't know....I think you've kind of answered this in your posts already, but I'm kind of a hard case...how can I accept that she's gone, the unideal way we separated, and move on?

    Again, thanks for the advice so far...I know that in the future I'll be more aware and avoid the mistakes I made this time.

  8. #8
    whitedragon is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    No relationship really ends perfectly. Yours did not end up with restraining orders, plates and knives thrown, her robbing your bank account, destroying your possessions or in a divorce court - so for you it ended ok! Remain positive. It takes time to move on and you must also consider her life - allow her to move on. Relationships rarely fall apart due to a simple 'miss-understanding'. There are always deeper forces at work and your judgement is perhaps clouded by sentimental emotions that give her control and you doubt. It's all about what you do rather than say or have said. Her whole mantra of not showing the same level of interest sounds like an excuse too. That's all womens fluff hiding something more serious at the core. You may have had 2 options - apologise and make amends but she has then gained control and positioned herself as the princess who wants absolute attention, or you say 'You want more interest? What am I the red cross? There's there door if you don't like it'. It's blunt but shows strength and you don't loose control. Sometimes in these situations what happens was going to happen anyway. Hindsight is a great thing but too many people try to drive their lives looking in the rear view mirror. Look at the road ahead.

    You have to be honest in callibrating with each girl you date too. If you really love a girl say so. If you are young and just want some fun say so. If a girl says anything outside of your scope you are probably not meant to be together.

    How do you move on? Go out and find yourself again. Work on building inner strength, enjoy being single, get back into your hobbies that make you attractive in the first place, work out, learn guitar and start dating other girls. If your ex truly cares for you she wouldn't have said 'dont write to me anymore' and she will seek you out when she is feeling lonely. If you start dating other girls she may even pick up on it and realise she made a mistake - if you have made improvements and you really are supposed to be together - but by then you might not want her back because you will have found better. The more you try and fix the past the more you can ruin it, it's like over watering a plant - plants need a cycle of oxygen and water so just let it be for the time being. Keep spiralling upwards.

  9. #9
    kye
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    This doesn't really respond to "what do i do from now". But I do have an opinion on the line between the creepy guy and the guy who goes after what he wants. (feel free to ignore what I say, after all I'm not an expert by any stretch of imagination)

    The difference between the 2 is this:
    if the chick likes it, you're the cool guy, If she doesn't, then you're creepy and harassing her. What that means is that there really isn't a line in the sand that someone can look at and say "that's the line you shouldn't cross".

    Essentially, it's arbitrary - and girls decide if you're cool or creepy given a particular situation.

  10. #10
    afcsupreme is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: The line between 'man who goes after what he wants' & 'creepy guy'

    This thread has been extremely helpful y'all...the last day or two of introspection and reflection I've done on my inner game has been more productive than the entire two weeks after I separated from her, where I was in kind of a haze.

    I think I've got a pretty good understanding now of what 'the line' actually is - and what it isn't. @kye - your logic makes a lot of sense to me as well, I think that's definitely true. If the girl's head over heels for you, you can probably send her 20 texts and she'll love it. It also follows that if she's not really interested, a second invite may be received pretty poorly

    The last remaining issue that I'm struggling with (kind of going a little off the original topic of 'the line' here, sorry bout that >_>) is that I'm in sort of a catch-22 situation...her initial premise was that I didn't care enough about her. So if I don't contact her/try to set things straight (beta-backslide, some might think of it), I'm kind of proving her assumption was correct (which is definitely not true, and I don't want her to think that's the case). If I do contact her, well, I'm in essence beta-backsliding, she feels safer in her decision, and not to mention that I might be pestering her if she actually doesn't want to hear from me. I kind of feel I'm in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitedragon View Post
    Her whole mantra of not showing the same level of interest sounds like an excuse too. That's all womens fluff hiding something more serious at the core. You may have had 2 options - apologise and make amends but she has then gained control and positioned herself as the princess who wants absolute attention, or you say 'You want more interest? What am I the red cross? There's there door if you don't like it'. It's blunt but shows strength and you don't loose control. Sometimes in these situations what happens was going to happen anyway. Hindsight is a great thing but too many people try to drive their lives looking in the rear view mirror. Look at the road ahead.
    ^The above helped quite a bit..Maybe as I continue and absorb and think about what y'all have said, I'll be able to better manage my urge to break no-contact...but at the moment, this particular catch-22 issue is what's on my mind...I'm also considering the possibility that she is actually interested, but she just wants to move on (as she'll be leaving the country soon), and I should respect that...any advice on this problem?


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