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Thread: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

  1. #1
    Xmrider is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    I met an HB9 through a mutual female friend that basically stated that we should hook up. At that time I mentioned to her that I have a girlfriend and anyway the HB9 was married. I did see some interest from the HB9 so I kept in touch friend wise, but she was kind of flaky so I wrote her off. Half year later I meet again that HB9 with the mutual friend. Called her out on being flakey. She said that she was busy and that she would promise to improve (I guess it was the divorce that kept her occupied), and that I should be more persistent in getting in touch with her. So far the IOIs that I got are:
    -She re-initiated conversations when I stopped talking
    -
    She giggled
    -
    She glanced at me repeatedly ever minute or so
    -
    She smiled at me
    -
    She laughed at something I said even if it was not really that funny of a joke
    -
    She avoided mentioning her soon to be ex husband
    -
    When she said or did something, she looked at me to see my reaction
    - She tried to catch my attention when I talked to other people

    - She looked for my approval
    - She flirted with me in front of mutual friends
    - She mirrored my body language
    - She did not move away during light kino (previous meeting she did move away) (was no opportunity to escalate)
    - She hinted on planning to go clubbing with me

    She seems to be a Tester-Denier-Realist.

    So there is interest, but again she is being flakey.Did not answer my calls so I texted her. 5 hrs later I get a reply that she was busy (It still is an improvement from the half a year ago as then she texted basically the next day back) We continued texting and she called me out for not getting in touch with her the day before. I told her that I was busy but that I would be near her town and that we should meet up and that I would call her. She replied to get in touch with her by text or to call her the next day. Next day I called her twice, but got no answer.
    So I am thinking on cancelling on her and to write this: Hey Goofy, tried to call you to inform you of a change of plans. I will be in town, but won’t make it to see you as I have been invited to a party by a friend, but I gathered that you would be busy anyways. Maybe another time.

    What do you guys think?
    Make the impossible possible!

  2. #2
    I.M.Mortal's Avatar
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    Cancelling on her to take back some power is fine. I would definitely change up that text and here is why:

    Get rid of this part for sure "....but I gathered that you would be busy anyways." This is completely unnecessary and telegraphs your intentions too much. It is sub-communicating to her that you worry too much that she will be busy, so you are going to do something else. High value talk is you don't care and want to show INDIFFERENCE to whether she is busy or not busy. Even if she isn't busy and could meet you, your plans remains unchanged.

    "I have been invited to a party by a friend" Get rid of this. You don't owe her an explanation. If anything, this will make her feel devalued and hurt future chances with her that you chose a party over her. Even if she did flake out on you for a party in the past, this will only turn it into an unnecessary game and an obvious one of cancelling on each other.

    Get rid of "maybe" Project your dominance. You are a "fvck yes or no" kind of guy and you expect people to be like that to respect your time. You don't want a girl saying "maybe next time" as well right? So don't project that.

    Remember, you are only taking back power and you want to do so by not devaluing her and/or making her feel devalued.

    All you have to say to keep it light is: "Hey Goofy, I tried to call you but it's obvious you ran off to Disneyworld. But I won't be able to see you this go. Got too many things going on. Don't worry. It's all good. Tell you about it next time

    This way you kept it light, she doesn't lose her value because you gave her the gift of wondering, and you maintained your value.

    If she responds with something along the lines of "no problem" Then reply back. "Thank you for being cool with this."

  3. #3
    marvilo's Avatar
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    She really seems interested from what you're saying. On your part you shouldn't be so quick to think she flakes on purpose. She's probably is a busy person like she says. Whatever you do though DO NOT GO ALL AFC ON HER! That's the most important thing you got to remember. She may continue the flakes as a test or whatever but just remember no AFC. May be a sh!t test, don't forget to give that a thought too so she can see your true colors.
    You lose some you win some, learn from your mistakes and get better!

  4. #4
    Xmrider is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by marvilo View Post
    She really seems interested from what you're saying. On your part you shouldn't be so quick to think she flakes on purpose. She's probably is a busy person like she says. Whatever you do though DO NOT GO ALL AFC ON HER! That's the most important thing you got to remember. She may continue the flakes as a test or whatever but just remember no AFC. May be a sh!t test, don't forget to give that a thought too so she can see your true colors.

    Gave it a thought that she is busy and that these could be sh1t tests, but also that she does not want it to be too easy for me and that she is keeping a good reputation when not yet divorced.


    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.Mortal View Post
    Cancelling on her to take back some power is fine. I would definitely change up that text and here is why:

    Get rid of this part for sure "....but I gathered that you would be busy anyways." This is completely unnecessary and telegraphs your intentions too much. It is sub-communicating to her that you worry too much that she will be busy, so you are going to do something else. High value talk is you don't care and want to show INDIFFERENCE to whether she is busy or not busy. Even if she isn't busy and could meet you, your plans remains unchanged.
    Ok I agree to this one


    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.Mortal View Post
    "I have been invited to a party by a friend" Get rid of this. You don't owe her an explanation. If anything, this will make her feel devalued and hurt future chances with her that you chose a party over her. Even if she did flake out on you for a party in the past, this will only turn it into an unnecessary game and an obvious one of cancelling on each other.
    Want to devalue her so she tries to qualify herself.


    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.Mortal View Post
    Get rid of "maybe" Project your dominance. You are a "fvck yes or no" kind of guy and you expect people to be like that to respect your time. You don't want a girl saying "maybe next time" as well right? So don't project that.
    Here I wanted to give her the uncertainty if it will ever occur.
    Make the impossible possible!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    Want to devalue her so she tries to qualify herself.
    Getting her to qualify through a qualification process involves a formula of "takeaways" and giving her emotional value for recovery. It's usually self-amusing and most effectively done through questions or playful teasing/joking about something that is not true about her.

    If you were trying to make a girl qualify, that text was all 'push' and no 'pulls'. Nothing balanced out to create a dynamic. And most importantly, nothing attractive because the context of it is serious.

    Her internal response will be: "Whoa. Okay, he flakes on me for a party. What did I do to deserve this?" It won't prompt her qualify because it creates questions in her head rather than her answering your questions. I mean how is she suppose to respond to that? Better yet, put yourself in her shoes. If a girl sent you that text, how would you feel/respond? Offended? Hence, internally, thinking, "there won't be a next time." Therefore, devaluing her in this fashion won't get her to qualify. Makes sense?

    I'll give you 2 examples of how I made a girl qualify via text. The first was done using questions and with a takeaway. The second was just done stealthily by implying something that is untrue about her.


    Wed July 9
    3:17 ME: So I'm at work gravely wounded with claw marks all over my body and I've been seeking solace in my mind thinking about u, trying to figure u out. U don't eat, u don't sleep but always look fresh, u don't get mad, u don't get jealous...I came to the logical conclusion that u are not human! So the big question is - are u from heaven or hell? o.O
    4:10 HER: I eat plenty! And sleep too

    BAM! Qualified.

    Wed Jan 16
    12:39p – ME: Those brown bedroomy eyes, that sweet sexy smile, that body…oooh so hot! Anyways, enough about me Just checkin’ to see if you made it to Vegas ok with that late drive and sore leg.
    12:42p – HER: Haha u so crazy! Yup I made it!  thanks for checking!
    12:52p – ME: Awesome! Have fun! Don’t rob all the casinos, save some for me. And if any drunk guys try to pick you u up, bust out the boyfriend card and tell ‘em “Sorry, I have 2 boyfriends” (lol)
    3:59p – HER: I’m not a gambler, drinker, smoker, but I do love getting dressed up and dancing the night away! So the casino’s money is safe and will remain the casino’s money. Two bfs…u. r. bad.

    BAM! Qualified.

    This is from Jon Sinn:

    PUA: Are you adventurous?
    Girl: Yeah Totally
    PUA: Awesome I love adventurous people. There’s just so much more fun. What’s the most adventurous thing you’ve ever done? Don’t say running with scissors.
    Girl: One time I went skydiving

  6. #6
    Xmrider is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.Mortal View Post
    Getting her to qualify through a qualification process involves a formula of "takeaways" and giving her emotional value for recovery. It's usually self-amusing and most effectively done through questions or playful teasing/joking about something that is not true about her.
    Yes, the disqualifying is with C&F. However in this case I have never seen so many IOIs and not being able to progress further. Normally the my mindset would be that she is mine. I am usually able to attract that there is no flakeing. So the flakiness of her would leave me to assume that she is busy and sh1t testing.

    Ok so I did your way. She replied immediately that she would call me back. Interesting what will happen now...
    Make the impossible possible!

  7. #7
    I.M.Mortal's Avatar
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    Ok so I did your way. She replied immediately that she would call me back. Interesting what will happen now...
    Ahhh, and my success rate remains untarnished

    I had a similar situation as yours. Lots of IOIs, but the girl kept on rescheduling on the date. In fact, we didn't get to date until 2 months from the time I asked her out.

    The truth is she was genuinely busy. It just wasn't our date that kept on getting put off, but dinners her clients wanted to treat her to. So Marvillo does have a point when he said don't be so quick to think she flaked on purpose. We don't really know what is going on in a girl's life.

    Had I not given her a chance and maintain a sense of 'playful persistence,' then I wouldn't be dating this off the charts HB with high social status.

    Hopefully, all goes well in your case in planning future hookups.

  8. #8
    Xmrider is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.Mortal View Post
    The truth is she was genuinely busy. It just wasn't our date that kept on getting put off, but dinners her clients wanted to treat her to. So Marvillo does have a point when he said don't be so quick to think she flaked on purpose. We don't really know what is going on in a girl's life.

    Had I not given her a chance and maintain a sense of 'playful persistence,' then I wouldn't be dating this off the charts HB with high social status.

    Hopefully, all goes well in your case in planning future hookups.
    Thanks! She replied that she is up and working for more than 24hrs now and that surely she would meet up another time. Getting replies to my texts almost instantly although she supposedly is at a conference meeting. This canceling out on her shifted the power to my side. Now I need to set up another time to meet up.

    What do you think if she will be again aloof to cancel out on her again? Can that make her chase me more?
    Make the impossible possible!

  9. #9
    Tow
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    @Xmrider: I.M.Mortal does indeed know his shit
    @I.M.Mortal: If a girl doesn't qualify, but emphasize the disqualifier or however you want to call it, is it better, worse or as good?

    Example:
    Me: Happy birthday! You're getting old
    Her: Thanks. I know :'D

  10. #10
    I.M.Mortal's Avatar
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    Default Re: HB9 with heavy IOI being aloof. Need help

    What do you think if she will be again aloof to cancel out on her again? Can that make her chase me more?
    I wouldn't just rely on that. Save your good cards. For example, the busy girl that I mentioned, I only done it to her twice.

    To answer your question, yes, it can. What it does do is it does help what is called "positioning"

    FACT: No two people are ever in the same position in any given interaction.

    Someone is in the position of "chooser," the other person is a "choosee." One person is being chased, the other person is being the chaser. One person has the power, the other person is seeking the approval of the power.

    When you put and maintain yourself in the position of "you're chasing me," women will naturally accept it and fall into the mindset of "Yes, I am chasing this guy" and with you with that higher position/status in her mind, she significantly becomes more attracted to you.

    That is why qualification is so powerful because it subtly frames her as the one trying to prove herself to you.

    What you ultimately want to get across is that you are a busy guy who knows how to work hard and play hard. You have a lucrative schedule of work and a social life. You are a man on a mission. And you are fitting her into your schedule. You want to do this JUST ENOUGH to get this point across without over-doing it. You don't want to create unnecessary missed opportunities as well.

    In your case, the girl is genuinely busy. Knowing this, I wouldn't ask her out frequently only to know she has a good chance of flaking. I would hit her up once every so often. Casually throw out an invite. Keep your expectations low and don't overplan until she earns it.

    I also want to point out that there comes a point where the girl is already sold on you. You don't have to work as hard to create attraction, but to maintain it and not fvck up and go AFC and turn her off. The most important place to turn up attraction and go full blast is when you first met. When you do meet for a date, because it's been a while, turn it up again.

    Just remember - The art of seduction is all about creating GOOD/POSITIVE emotions. So if you are going to cancel on her to keep power, the trick is how you do it - to maintain your position and good emotions at the same time.

    --------------------------------------
    @I.M.Mortal: If a girl doesn't qualify, but emphasize the disqualifier or however you want to call it, is it better, worse or as good?

    Example:
    Me: Happy birthday! You're getting old
    Her: Thanks. I know :'D
    @Tow - Her reply is actually positive. But that example is not a qualifier because you are saying something true about her. It's more of a playful tease and she is responding positively hence giving you emotional value appreciating the tease.

    This is one example from MeHow that is identical to yours. It breaks down the dynamic of the interaction.

    Girl: Thank you! I work in the ER, so I have no other <inaudible>. I'm done with all of it, you know? (she is giving me value, telling me what she does)

    PUA: That's awesome! You are the crazy emergency nurse! (I'm giving her value by teasing her a bit)

    Girl: AHHH! (She is giving me a bit of value by appreciating the tease).


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