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Thread: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

  1. #1
    Royal-T is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    I frequent a place. The purpose of the place is not social, but it is social. I know the subject of the place, I take command, I teach, motivate, encourage. Everyone respects me. I am their go-to guy.

    I told myself I would not pursue any women in this place because I did not want any chance of causing someone to avoid the place if it went South.

    A hot chick showed up, but knowing she was going through a messy divorce, I steered clear. She is serious and distant, but lit up to me one day, started encouraging and complimenting me, asking advice on the place, then on her resume, then gave me a related book with her phone number on it with a hand drawn heart. I'm thinking "WTF? Is she hitting on me? Or is this just girl-speak?" I wasn't sure, so I kept a log of our interactions so I could watch it.

    I know about inner game / confidence / alpha male / thing instinctively, but I've never studied PUA, so I never got smooth at it. I'd wing it and sometimes bomb in the seduction phase or the F-close - as in, right before I'd slide in.

    She invites me into a semi-private room at the place. "You've got to be shitting me. She doesn't do this with anyone. She has to be flirting." I'm not accustomed to flirts from serious girls, only the outgoing, party types. I accept. Unsure, my choice of subjects is both serious and light to test the waters, but I touch her while emphasizing points to flirt. She doesn't recoil, but doesn't warm. I wanted to K-close, but could not figure out if it was right. Wasn't mentally prepared.

    Before the place closed, I mentioned feeling great and having an abundance of energy. I say goodbye to her at her car. She responds with that melody in a woman's voice every man loves to hear and calls me "energizer bunny". Was she warming to me?

    "I am breaking my rule. I can't let possibility pass by."

    I text her my phone number and sign it "energizer bunny". She texts back that she is dancing at an outdoor concert. Perplexed, I wait a few hours before I text back. "Sounds groovy". In the morning, I conclude she invited me to dance with her. I kick myself for not recognizing it, even though there was no way I could have got there.

    There was another concert a few days later, but I couldn't get there either. I scrapped my day schedule, packed an overnight bag, and arrived at the place with the intent of her driving us to the concert, then back to her place. It took me out of dominance, but I had no other options. I saw her that day but didn't mention it to her because I hated the plan.

    I needed to get her alone to find out, but how? I needed to be in control. I know women like that and I was slipping. Several days later, I left a voicemail asking if she'd like to go out afterwards. She texts back that I'm an "awesome friend" and she'll take a raincheck.

    The F-word: friend.

    I was livid because I either misread her or did something wrong or didn't act when I should have. I don't know which.

    I saw her a few days later. She was distant. When we spoke about an unrelated subject, she looked at me and repeated "Whatever. Whatever. Whatever." I knew this wasn't about the subject, but was it about me? After an hour of pondering, I figured I misread her and she was pissed I asked her out. Before I left, I apologized and told her I didn't want any weirdness between us and that I valued her. She never looked at me the entire time but accepted my apology.

    Did I misread her? Or did I read her right but piss her off because I didn't respond to her advances quickly or correctly? Who cares? Why did I apologize for asking her out? That's retarded. Maybe she had a bad day and I made it worse by acting stupid. I couldn't tell, so I couldn't figure out what to do.

    A week later, I decide to try again with the gloss-over. I text an interesting link and hope she is doing well. She responds with "great" and some other stuff. I still couldn't read her.

    Another week passes. I return her book to the place, text her the notice. "Thanks".

    So here I am. Even if I misread her, there was nothing there, it's dead, but at least I acted. I'd never forgive myself I didn't at least try.

    If I read her right, I fumbled. How do I recover without appearing desperate? I want her chasing me, not the other way around. I won't do that. Women are not prizes, but bonuses.

    I hit the 'net and came across Vin's site. I learned about the "8 types" and pegged this gal as the "Connoisseur". Makes sense. She lived in a rich neighborhood, drives a nice car, acts classy. Very helpful. I needed to get inside her head to know what makes her tick. That's why I couldn't read her - I didn't know who I was talking to!

    More netting and Mr. Locario. There are different analysis and tactics, but all complimentary. I posted my scenario here to see what else comes up.

    I need to work on my game, but placed it on the "very near future" of my to-do list. This experience taught me the psychological is the ONLY thing that matters, that it can be studied NOW even if I don't practice. That's when I realized I need help from my PUA brothers, and maybe even a coach. That's when I realized I can master the game and make it happen instead of fumbling into it like this experience. That's when I realized that I am ready RIGHT NOW.

  2. #2
    artandale's Avatar
    artandale is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    The friend label is more of a sh1t test the first time its thrown in passing. Keep gaming as usual. You can still build traction from what you have. You're really only friend zoned when she pulls away from a clear move of your escalation in isolation oryou both have a friend zone talk. Proceed as normal.

    As for no control--i kind of gave up that terminology and either give them the option of leading or lead. I find it helpful to give them the idea that its their idea when i'm just too unsure about them or not interested enough to plan out the details. Sometimes this can be to your advantage depending on the personality and habits of the girl. Why? Because there are some girls that like to take intiative too. But keep in mind they have a different idea of intiating. So with this said i'd like to be clear that letting the girl lead is ok but you should be ready at anytime of your choice to lead. If you're not interested make i clear. She'll either pine to please you or let you steer. The signs are always subtle. With most women you should treat everything as a green light until you've hit a red one. Then take two steps back into the safe zone and recalibrate to where she is comfortable and trusting of your presence around her.

    From what i read i think you did ok. You might have been looking for too obvious of signa and avoided puttin your neck out there. I'd suggest putting it out there and when she questions it--acknowledge it but make it clear that she hadnt made a clear sign to you that said she wasnt interested. It doesnt have to be a heavy talk--keep it all light and playful.

    Have you already started teasing with her? Hows her responses? Teasing can be a great way to get some emotional spikes so you can begin to escalate verbally and physically.
    Every moment counts, get out of your head and enjoy it.

  3. #3
    Royal-T is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    Thanks, brother. After understanding the NDR Connoisseur profile, I know that she wants to lead some times and follow other times. In numerology, she is a responsible humanitarian - loves to please and have things in order. She even told me that early on, but also said her ex always yelled at her so she wasn't doing that anymore. I don't believe her. It's in her nature to please.

    You're right that I avoided risk as I stated in my opening paragraph, but I shifted gears when she isolated me. Still didn't do as well as I'd like.

    Forgot to mention before my faltering beta apology, she didn't red light me when I gently squeezed her arm gently in passing and gave her a low whispered greeting. She even texted she missed me at the place when I didn't show up at my regular showing. Now that I think about it, she gave me all sorts of subtle signs - a smile here, a question there. Damn! My game needs work!

    Didn't know I was talking to an NDR until after all this played out, but now I know. It all makes sense with a little study. I teased her early on and she was responsive, but in a serious and light way. I'd forgotten about that. This was before she started giving me signs recently. Seems like I should pretend I did not go limp and persist with escalation now that I see the cards on the table.

  4. #4
    I.M.Mortal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    Hey Royal,

    First of all, do not rely on Vin Di Carlos system. The biggest flaw in that system is so many guys profile the girl wrong. And if you profile the girl wrong, you are fvcked. It’s fine if you are in a relationship with someone or known the girl for a long time and really get to know her. And even then, it's just a good supplement.

    So, here is where the real lesson in the art of seduction comes in…

    In your demographics, you have status and high value. Women are attracted to “the perception of status.” This is known as passive value. For example, my friend is a top ranking network marketer and he can pretty much get any single woman in that demographics on his passive value alone and this guy has no active “game”

    Provided that she knows who you are in that venue, she would be naturally attracted to you based on your passive value.

    Game-wise, from the sounds of it, you gave up some of your value by pursuing her more than you should and gave her more attention than she deserves. Just remember, your attention is your most valuable asset. What happens when you give up your attention too easily? It subcommunicates low value to a woman that this is not a guy who is use to being around a woman my level or else why would he give it up so easily.

    Examples of where you gave up value - You let her give you a pet name "energizer bunny" and you validated by signing it via text UGH! It's you who should be pet naming her. If she pet named you first, you give her a pet name of your own like "Jessica Rabbit" (since she is classy). Then in terms of attraction, you can create a future fantasy projection with her. "Hey you know, we can go both to Vegas and stage a casino heist. All you have to do Jessica Rabbit is wear something low cut and distract the guards and I can keep on "going and going and going" until I wipe the vaults clean. And even if I got caught, since I am not Roger Rabbit they can't frame me."

    You went into the semi-private room too easily. I would've told her "You know, this place is awefully kinda semi-private. The last girl who invited me here was crazy. She tried to tongue rape me and I had to get a restraining order against her. You are not a crazy chick are you?" [qualifying her playfully]

    What you should be doing? Let her chase you. Put yourself in the frame of the “chooser” not the “chaser.” A woman will always value more what she has to work for. Maintain the powerswitch in your favor. No matter how pretty she is, do not put her on the pedestal because somewhere out there, there is someone who is sick of her (ex – her soon to be ex hubby). DO NOT show any more interest than she is showing you.

    If anything, you do have to work on your active game.

    One of the ways to put yourself in the frame of the “Chooser” is to qualify her. Qualification is one of the biggest aces. I suggest you read up on qualification. But here are some free youtube resources by a few PUA experts on qualification.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbB8AuTBouY

    Adam Lyons is a renown expert on it and has numerous youtube videos.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+qualification

    Classic Niel Strauss qualification question is:

    “So tell me three things about you that will make a guy want to get to know you, but can’t do anything with your looks.”

    Lastly, this woman is going through a divorce, so her mind is not in the right place. We never truly know what is going on in their lives and their state of mind. This in itself is a red flag and a sign of incompatibility. She could be latching on to you as the rebound guy or w/e. Regardless, don’t bother trying to understand a woman’s mind, it will drive you insane. Just focus on your game and qualifying her.

    She is showing you disinterest, mirror her disinterest. If you continue to reward her disinterest with your interest, you lose.

    Because she was the first to break rapport with you, it will be tough to recover. Usually the general rule is you need to be the first to break rapport. You cannot re create attraction by breaking rapport more. However, what does work is pre-selection. It means let her see you with another hot woman and ignore her completely. Watch her reaction and it will be hilarious as she will not even look at you probably. It will automatically make you look attractive. It works wonder. If you don't know any hot women, but you got some moolah to spare, you can actually hire a professional wingwoman or atmosphere model to accompany you (if you are in a big city) for 75/hr. It's a nasty trick.

  5. #5
    Royal-T is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    Thanks, IM. That is some solid, sober, lucid advice. I checked out those vids and am impressed that game is structured so others can know where they are in the model. It makes sense now, if you can call riding the turbulent waves of emotion sensible.

  6. #6
    Royal-T is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Creeped out?

    Update.

    Repeatedly watched these videos, went to the place, took your advice, played it cool. Friendly towards everyone, confident, open, mirrored the Target's response. She ignored me, so I ignored her. When she had to interact with me, she was hesitant, then flat out hid elsewhere when she should have been somewhere. She has a confidant - a Seductress whom tried to lure me a while back, but I played her off, yet we still relate very well. The Seductress approached and made sure I overheard and understood why the Target was hiding using subtext: me. The Seductress then came in closer and smiled.

    "You know."

    I returned her smile.

    "I know what's going on. I apologized, even though I probably should not have."

    She looked slightly quizzical. "Because of the tool?"

    The tool is something the Target broke recently, but I fixed. Everyone thought I saved the day, but I didn't acknowledge it because I didn't want to make a big deal out of it nor belittle the Target. However, by mentioning the apology, I realized even the Seductress did not know the Target and my exchange.

    "Yeeaaah", I nodded. A moment later, I realized MY subtext was communicating something different. Something more.

    Shortly after, the Target had trouble with the tool. Someone else tried to help, but then grabbed me. The Target left for a moment. I knew it was because of me, but I got it working. The Target returned then asked me for small help. I showed her. She thanked me. I welcomed her. The Target left.

    Other than the verbal faux pax which might come out when the Seductress presses the Target for information, and my inexperience with qualifying, what could I have done better? Certainly, her end is all messed up. Everyone sees me as the normal one and she is acting odd, using the tool as plausible deniability to hide from me. There is upspoken tension between us, exactly what I told her I wanted to avoid and now others that we both know may become involved. Did I fark up the dynamics to the point she feels creeped out around me because I didn't qualify attraction before "asking her out", which is also a no-no? It sure seems like it to me. Or is there something else happening?

  7. #7
    Royal-T is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    Duh. She was menstruating. Felt icky, didn't want to reduce her femininity around me. Seductress made sure I overheard, actually emphasized it when said it the second time.

    My "Yeaahh" response can fit into that context if I want to, but I'll just let it slide. Doesn't bother me. It's a normal woman thing. My only question is: does the Target care because its a woman to man thing? Or a Target to me thing? Did the Seductress let me know because to her, its no big deal and natural? Or was there subtext involved? She said it with a grin on her face.

    In fact, it was about 30 days ago the previous apology incident occurred that prompted me to join look into PUA for help and found this forum. It explains her distance with me from the last encounter. Gads! Why didn't I think of that before? Now I know where she is in the cycle and can anticipate future encounters. OK, so how does this affect the game as it stands?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    What did i just read? I reread this twice and i still dont really understand why you're making it that big of a deal. Put your cards out there and if shes interested she'll bite...

    Im not trying to be a dick but... Why didnt you just talk to her if you wanted to talk to her... Pretending to be in someone's head is only going to limit your time to spend with them. If you both didnt share any words that night then whats the point in being interested in her? As for her on her period or whatever what does that really matter when talking to her? You're not going to go caveman on her right there in front of everyone... I think you need to initiate more and stay out of your head. Build moments so you can lead her interests directed to you. Let her chase you... Dont sit on the sidelines...
    Every moment counts, get out of your head and enjoy it.

  9. #9
    Royal-T is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    Why didn't I act? I don't understand women. I didn't even know about the science of PUA until recently. Now that she's going cold, it really gets to me how blind I've been and how easy it could have been had I known. You guys helped me understand where I am, what I did wrong, and what I can do. The jealousy angle is new to me, but I'd have to open a new set to make that happen. I'd rather escalate, but insecure about recognizing PUA cues due to inexperience. Want to build moments, but don't want to DLV. Initiate vs chase. That's Qualifying, right? I think that's what I need to learn.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fumbled with classy gal: recovery possible?

    Dont worry so much about dlv or dhv... Thats kind of nerd tall and if you get blind sided you wont be able to focus with her. Be positive, responsible and show your interest in her. Any signs that may linger your thoughts to thinking she may not want anything to do with you you should put them to rest. Let her decide what she feels is best for her. All you can and should do is present your interest towards her in the best possible way. Get in a 1 on 1 conversation with her and see where things go. Its not about tricks or things you have to say. Its about actively listening and leading the situation. By talking to her you can figure out a lot of things and make your interests not only known but escalate. If she doesnt respond to them then its not a no... She'll make it clear. Keep building comfort and escalating and depending on her signs push and pull to make her chase you. Once she's taken a bite simply leading the sotuation can bring you to your goals if its an k close or f close. The only time you should be in your head when youre with her should be to see how you feel about things. Stay out of it if you're trying to make up her mind for her.
    Every moment counts, get out of your head and enjoy it.


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