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  1. #1
    Sidewinder is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Advice with stronger frame

    Need a bit of advice on handling somebody who has an extremely strong frame,

    Basically I have a cousin who is 3 years younger than me but we pretty much have the same circle of friends – for example he is the housemate of one of my closest friends who I go out with a lot.

    We get on well, there isn’t any dislike between the two of us but the main problem is he is extremely good at putting me down and making me feel low value and I am struggling with how I can handle it.

    I have to admire him in a lot of ways – he has an extremely strong frame, he literally does not give a shit what people think of him, he doesn’t really care whether is behaviour pisses people off and he pretty much moves through life the way he wants to. He never let’s things affect him and will jump on you as soon as he senses that you are reacting to something in an emotional way – he pretty much is unmoving and has no shame – he’d walk down the street naked and not give a crap about it.

    He’s intelligent and very witty - pretty much as rock solid a frame that you will come across – he honestly does not give a crap.

    He is well known around my hometown he has a lot of friends and is very well connected and he has this uncanny ability to be able to jump on almost anything you say and lower your value in front of people in an instant – it’s pretty much a very good frame to learn from and in a lot ways I am learning from it – but he keeps winning the frame game and it’s getting to the point that If I know he is going to be around my value lowers instantly cause I seem to have no way of taking his frame and turning it around.

    A little example of this – during a conversation I was talking about a certain situation I was in and I said the line “I pretty much left about a quarter of my drink then got the hell out of there”.....at which point my cousin piped up “hold on a sec you told me you only drank half of your beer......stop trying to impress everyone”.......BOOM instantly lowered my value, won the frame and got a laugh from everyone at my expense.........I had no comeback other than just laugh with the group.

    That’s pretty much how I deal with it – I just laugh and go along with it I try not to let it look like it’s affecting me but if he is around me and I am chatting to girls he is able to just lower my value instantly – I don’t think he does it to be an arsehole it’s just his nature and he is having a laugh and I am fine with that but it’s gotten to the point now where I instantly feel low value when I am around him and I pretty much start trying to be careful what I say so that he cannot pounce on me – I’ve even found myself starting to supplicate towards him – for example I’ve started to notice that I am the one who pretty much goes up to him to greet him, he will rarely come to me – just that makes me look low value towards him!

    I am also a little cautious about what I say back as a response to him because he is family after all and I don’t want to be nasty or say something that will upset him – he’s never nasty but he is just able to flip things and make me look low value whether he is conscious of that I don’t know.

    I get the feeling that he see’s me as a low value person that he doesn’t respect that much and that’s starting to make me sub-consciously act that way around him. He’s also bigger and more imposing physically than me and he will often refer to me as small and weak in an off handed sort of way, which actually makes me feel small and weak! – so not only does he have a rock solid frame – he’s physically much bigger and more popular than I am – which really doesn’t help. For example my family a little better off with money than his but he twists that around to make me look like I sub off of my parents money and says stuff like I am tight and all this kinda crap – again it’s not nasty but he wins the frame and lowers my value!

    I don’t particularly want to sit down and talk to him about it because as I mentioned I don’t think he does it to be nasty – he’s family and we get on fine – but I think he just see’s me as a low value person and I am far from that!

    I am looking for any tips on how I can start resisting his frame and ways I can act against his frame so that I can combat it and be equal if not higher value than his frame?

  2. #2
    Alergy is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor Achievements:
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    Default Re: Advice with stronger frame

    The way I see it that his frame is his #1 priority, as you said, he doesn't really give a *hit about what anyone thinks, and that also includes you. He obviously feels the need to lower your self-esteem to make himself look like the bigger man and even boost the respect given by his friends showing that he's in charge. So what you should never do is talk to him about it, it will seem as if you're weak and basically asking a bully to stop stealing your lunch money, he maybe cool with it (which I highly doubt due to is lack of given f*ucks) but you'll seem even a bigger wuss than he already sees you. The fact that you don't really have any response for him after his indirect insults makes you an easy target, I've been in a situation where one of my friends tried to impress someone by saying something witty towards my expense as well but what I did was very effective. I can't remember what he said exactly but I remember responding - "it's pretty desperate that you're trying to make yourself look better by putting others down, it's cute in fact, but good for you" and even starting clapping as if I was cheering for him, (sarcastically of course), but you have to say it with a lot confidence, which can be pretty hard for you because you tend to look at him as this big tough guy who doesn't give a *hit. Act as if you're not effected at all by what he said, but rather what he's doing by saying that - trying to make him seem look cooler. If I was in your shoes I'd either do this, or not respond at all, without any signs of body language that I was effected, but that's probably not very effective due to the fact that he's probably going to insult you in a group of friends and they'll laugh either way if you respond or not. I'll say it again, you have to have confidence, especially for this one - you can test his ego and not be in a position of defense but rather an attacker, if he says something you can pick on, you do the same, but don't look at him as if you're regretting what you said but have a laugh about it, be sure of what you do, he's your cousin, he's not going to punch you in the face (unless you cross the line and start picking on him with your warface on). Be confident and playful when you either attack him or dodge his comments, don't get too nervous and don't put your head down after he treats you like a lower call citizen, have a response so he can see that you can stand up for yourself, because from what I've read, he thinks you're an exact opposite of that.

    So hope you've found at least 1 good way to deal with him from what I've mentioned, best of luck to you

  3. #3
    Sidewinder is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Advice with stronger frame

    The weird thing is – he doesn’t intimidate me in a “he might beat the crap out of me” kind of way I think it’s more about his ability to be able to flip almost anything I say to show me in a low value light in his eyes and the eyes of other people in the interaction.

    I’m a confident guy and I can dish out Banter to my friends and I am also really good at taking it – I don’t let these things affect me on a deep level I am confident in who I am and I consider myself to be a person of high value – I certainly don’t drop my head and slide away like a wuss I try to hold my frame and my value as best as I can – but he seems to be my Achilles heel and he seems to be able to say and do exactly the right thing at the right time to lower my value and beat my frame and establish a position of higher value over me in almost any interaction and this happens probably every time we are in a social environment together – even non verbal things like not initiating conversation with me and not registering that I am there or even starting a conversation with someone else whilst I am talking to him or just looking at his phone if we are sitting at a table together – he’s always able to put himself in a position of dominance/high value over me making me look like I am lower value and supplicating towards him.

    If I was a girl he would be gaming me perfectly! Don’t get me wrong he doesn’t ignore me in an arsehole kind of way but he is able to do these tiny little things that just seem to have a huge effect on him establishing a stronger frame and higher value relative to mine! I don’t even think he is conscious of what he is doing – it’s just the way he is and It’s all put across as light hearted fun and it’s supposed to be funny - but whether he is aware or not it totally messes up my frame and my value!

    I guess I am asking – if you are a high value person how do you deal with somebody lowering your frame and your value? Or how to you respond when you are put into a position by somebody that challenges your frame and threatens your value? What attitude/approach or response is the best to keep your frame strong and your value high when you are challenged?

    I have read that you should “ignore it don’t buy into it and don’t react to it”......BUT if you are sitting around a table and your value and frame is challenged in a funny banter kind of way and everyone laughs – if you don’t react and don’t laugh and ignore it – I think that makes you come across as if it looks like it has affected you? And it makes you look like it’s affected your mood and therefore you lose.....??....if you don’t have a good enough comeback then what is the best way to deal with it?.......should you agree and laugh along with the rest? Agree and over exaggerate the joke that’s been fired at you?.......I often just laugh along and try not to let it bother me but I am finding that it affects my value and allows his to just remain as higher value and with a stronger frame.

    I have been thinking maybe I should sit down and put together a few things that I can poke back at him as a bit of defence to re-establish my frame and my value – would this be a way of holding your frame? Or is that just petty? And in all honesty I am not 100% sure it would affect him!

  4. #4
    Alergy is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor Achievements:
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    Default Re: Advice with stronger frame

    we're all human, and he can be affected by insensitive comments just like you are now. Obviously having a good comeback would be very helpful, but even if you do think of something it's not very likely that it will be situational relevant because he drops bomb on you from out of the blue. You tried having a laugh at your expense after he lowered your value, obviously that's not working for you, and it's clear to me that you look at him that he's better than you, at least in a confidence way because he doesn't care about what anyone thinks of him, but I see that as an exact opposite, he cares so much about what people think of him that instead of being a leader and pulling other people up, he's pushing them down. I advise you to either attack him with comments and see how well he reacts, treat him as if he's not that important to you in a conversation, let's say you're talking to him, he starts telling you a story or something like that and you engage in a conversation with somebody else, he's going to be lost because he's usually the center of attention and the fact that someone almost ignores him is gonna' be a challenge for him to handle. So like I said, treat him the exact way he treats you, equality. If he's being an ass, you be an ass, don't care if someone responds and laughs at his expense or not, the goal for you is to challenge him and make him see you the type of guy who doesn't like being put down and doesn't take kindly to it, because I can assure you that he doesn't see you as an exact equal, and neither do you. You see him as a brick wall who can't be torn down, but with the right amount of strategy, confidence you can make him show respect for you whether he wants to or not. You say you're a confident guy yet judging from what I've read you're not, if you were you wouldn't be afraid to come at him with a comeback, even if it's not as witty as his, that's the whole point of a comeback - to make them see that you're not going let yourself be *hitted on. If you don't have a witty comeback to everything he throws at you, that's okay, you're not good at dodging his bullets, let's see how tough he is when he's the one getting shot.

    One more thing, don't over think things, you're too wrapped up in your head, be in the moment and stand up to him when he's trying to lower your value

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Alergy For This Useful Post:

    Sidewinder (06-09-2015)


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