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Thread: overt confidence hurting my game?

  1. #1
    Alergy is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor Achievements:
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    Default overt confidence hurting my game?

    hey, so due to new gained confidence and the slight change of my mindset about how I percieve myself and others I started showing a very high lack of neediness. It is not fake what so ever, I used to be the kind of person who really cared about what others think, wasn't very happy with my self and always felt as if I NEED others, but at this point in my life it's the complete opposite, I'm very confident and the more I progress in my self development and working towards becoming a MPUA the more not only I notice but my friends notice this as well - that I don't seem to give a sh.. about anything, from what others think of me to the outcome of some of my words/actions. And even though this was one of my goals to achieve this type of mindset I think that it's becoming my sticking point more and more, because I can't seem to achieve genuine connection with people cause of this. New people I meet, adventures I go on - I don't seem to care about the outcome and I'm more focused on myself rather than others, any thoughts?

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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alergy View Post
    hey, so due to new gained confidence and the slight change of my mindset about how I percieve myself and others I started showing a very high lack of neediness. It is not fake what so ever, I used to be the kind of person who really cared about what others think, wasn't very happy with my self and always felt as if I NEED others, but at this point in my life it's the complete opposite, I'm very confident and the more I progress in my self development and working towards becoming a MPUA the more not only I notice but my friends notice this as well - that I don't seem to give a sh.. about anything, from what others think of me to the outcome of some of my words/actions. And even though this was one of my goals to achieve this type of mindset I think that it's becoming my sticking point more and more, because I can't seem to achieve genuine connection with people cause of this. New people I meet, adventures I go on - I don't seem to care about the outcome and I'm more focused on myself rather than others, any thoughts?
    It's weird. If you really don't give a flying shit about what others think of you anymore, and you're not faking a persona, then you should naturally be able to achieve genuine connections with people. The only way this happens is from being the real you that doesn't care what others think because, when you care what others think, you try to adjust yourself to be something you're really not. You try to please others and meet their 'standards'. Consequently, you don't let out real, care-free, thoughts and feelings that don't come from this introspective and insecure mindset. I'm saying all of this from experience of being a super shy and insecure person who hasn't been able to attract women with a 10-foot pole for years now, and not being able to connect with anyone I'm around. I've been really wanting to get over this and I've just begun the real battle. If you have the time, please share with me with some details about how you went from this needy and unhappy person to this confident and carefree person. I'd love to hear your story. PM is fine if you'd like.

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    Alergy is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor Achievements:
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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    what I'm trying to say is that my narcissistic behavior is making it seem as if I don't give a sh.. about other people, even when I'm gaming girls I can sense that I tend to have too much player-vibe coming out of me. When I interact with anyone I ALWAYS assume A&A = Atraction & Authority which can maybe be the reason I tend to struggle with showing people that I do care, that I don't think of my self better than them and if I sense any negativity I just assume it as a sh.. test and I usually manage to flip the script, I think this is a good mindset if I only interacted with 9s and 10s, but girls that are 8s or less (and with people who aren't very confident and socially aware) tend to think of me as a bit of an asshole due to the fact that I usually play the mouse&cat game where I'm not the chaser but the chased, which of course over-all says 3 words to me - overt player vibe.

    and yeah, sure I'll pm you soon

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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    I ALWAYS assume A&A = Atraction & Authority which can maybe be the reason I tend to struggle with showing people that I do care, that I don't think of my self better than them
    "overconfidence" can often make people uncomfortable. the rational thought that goes through their head is "what made this guy think he shits gold?" "what real value does he even have?"

    so the question is, do you really have the value to back up this pompous act? cause that's exactly what people are thinking.

    I know this because I used to be a huge narcissist. while it did help to secure some one night stands with women I would rarely see again, it was really more of an act. truth be told I had no real justification for acting that way, I had little real value to offer compared to the amount of perceived value I had created.

    while playing chased is an amazing tactic I use all the time, you may need to dumb it down some. (especially if you're on a college campus where everyone knows everyone)

    now I prefer more of a "quiet confidence" think about how a mob boss would act, he wouldn't bother to tell people he's a powerful man they shouldn't toil with, he would just know in the back of his mind that he could have anyone killed with just a few words to his henchmen. he would carry himself in a manner that says "I'm dangerous" and people would just know.

    now, apply the same school of thought to pua. the mpua knows he can sleep with half the women in the room just by giving them some attention and demonstrating his value. he knows his value, he doesn't have to tell women to chase him, he subtly leads them to give chase. his vibe shows that he is a cool guy who has options. not some dork giving off a vibe that he's better than the women he's talking to.

    of course, this is next level stuff that takes years of calibration, think about the fact the the book "the game" by Neil Strauss, the story takes place over the course of 2 years of literally eating, sleeping and breathing pua. he wasn't really a master until near the end of the book. you're not going to get there overnight.

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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    haha, really LOVE the part "what made this guy think he shits gold?" this speaks to me on so many levels, I'm not going to deny it I do have a lot of narcissism flowing through my body and it really shows, I never tell anyone that I'm "the shit" or that I'm better than someone else, I let my actions show that I am pretty much care-free, intelectual, playful, confident, helpful, unaffected by negative outcomes which is not something most people can say about theirself.

    I know that my current mindset is a bit overwhealming and I don't really know how I should convey to people that I'm not asshole or a selfish narcissist WITHOUT losing a ton of value.. any tips on how to dumb it down? would love to still let all the rooms I walk in know that I can have anyone I want, but without coming off as a narcissist or an asshole.

    P.S. I know I got a long way to go until I become a MPUA, and I'm cool with that, I'm not rushing - but that's what this forum is for, receiving great ideas and giving out your own in-order to make this journey a loteasier

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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    Fairly new on here as well, but I used to and still from time to time find my self in the same situation as Alergy. For myself the real problem became not letting the "over confidence" come off as arrogance, and finding a line where draw it so it didn't overshadow my personality. but I have to say I loved all the insight and the especially the shitting gold comment lol.
    Last edited by Dray_ali; 08-17-2015 at 11:08 PM. Reason: reword

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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alergy View Post
    haha, really LOVE the part "what made this guy think he shits gold?" this speaks to me on so many levels, I'm not going to deny it I do have a lot of narcissism flowing through my body and it really shows, I never tell anyone that I'm "the shit" or that I'm better than someone else, I let my actions show that I am pretty much care-free, intelectual, playful, confident, helpful, unaffected by negative outcomes which is not something most people can say about theirself.

    I know that my current mindset is a bit overwhealming and I don't really know how I should convey to people that I'm not asshole or a selfish narcissist WITHOUT losing a ton of value.. any tips on how to dumb it down? would love to still let all the rooms I walk in know that I can have anyone I want, but without coming off as a narcissist or an asshole.

    P.S. I know I got a long way to go until I become a MPUA, and I'm cool with that, I'm not rushing - but that's what this forum is for, receiving great ideas and giving out your own in-order to make this journey a loteasier

    I had the same issue for a couple years. It's part of the process. I didn't have a problem with guys, just women I was gaming. I ended up having ALLOT of one night stands but I would rarely see these women again. I also realized that one night stands suck. Allot of guys think it's great to sleep with a bunch of women, but when you do, you realize that it's not what you thought.

    What's happening is you have gained allot of confidence, had some success, and believe you can get allot of women. That's good BUT there's still underlying issues in your inner game. This is causing you to overcompensate. You need to figure out what those issues are and resolve them. When you truly have strong inner game people are drawn to you, and people DO think you genuinely care because you're just a relaxed, friendly guy.

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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    [QUOTE=meteora;133915
    of course, this is next level stuff that takes years of calibration, think about the fact the the book "the game" by Neil Strauss, the story takes place over the course of 2 years of literally eating, sleeping and breathing pua. he wasn't really a master until near the end of the book. you're not going to get there overnight.[/QUOTE]

    There's a very good lesson in the end of the game. Neil realized that playing "the game" almost cost him his opportunity with Lisa. She even told him that. It was his personality that made him a star, not the tricks he learned. He even stated that all he learned was just a quick way to build a little attraction, that fades extremely fast, because it's not genuine.

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    Alergy is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor Achievements:
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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    Well it's obvious that I'm not going to get anywhere until I analyze my mistakes and commit to fixing them, but truth be told - I really don't rely on tricks and gambits to build attraction with women, because they fall in-love with the tricks - not you, period. I have not seen an IOD from a guy so far because I seem to hit it off with them pretty easily, same goes for the confident girls.

    I think my main issues at this moment are.. (apart from the crumbs of AA) I assume to often that a girl is confident or has her bitch-shield on and try to make them chase (without trying to read their verbal&body language to see if my assumption is correct), I don't know when to move from A2 to A3, I mean yes I give them something to work with but nothing they can strongly hold on to. I can easily talk about any subject, get them laughing, get IOI's, but when they sence that getting my qualification is just something too damn hard to work for, they seem to shut-down, I may not even get IOI's from shy girls. When I have issues with my game, I usually think of something that can assist me in over-coming an obstacle that I'm facing, and what I've decided to do for now is.. Turning the subject into something that they like, or asking something about them, so that I have something other than their beauty to qualify them for. When meeting new girls, focusing my attention towards trying to figure out if they are shy and not, if they are - great, direct, flipping the script (she's the player), if I sense some bitchyness - I just play them like I normally do.

    I'm pretty sure this should help me getting into the habit of being able to qualify girls and ofcourse not ruining my chances with the shy ones. You seem like you know what you're talking about - especially on the subject of making others feel better about themselves, I'm not too much of an egomaniac and I like receiving feedback that is helpful, almost as much as I like lending a hand myself, so it would be awesome if you'd give me any more ideas on improving my inner-game

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    Default Re: overt confidence hurting my game?

    I don't really know how I should convey to people that I'm not asshole or a selfish narcissist WITHOUT losing a ton of value.. any tips on how to dumb it down?
    1. you don't have to pretend you're not an asshole narcissist. you can even say things like "I'm being such an asshole, I really need to work on being nicer..." and if she says you're not that bad, you can even go further with it "but I feel so bad about it" (sarcastically) only extremely high value guys will downplay their value. (or guys with absolutely no self esteem lol)

    2. you don't have to make her laugh the whole time. it should be more of a two way street. you have to ask good open ended questions to get her talking. you know what's sweeter than having a girl hang on your every word? having a girl tell you all her awesome stories and jokes to make you laugh and get hung on her every word.
    (get the woman to do more of the talking. after all, its what they do best lol)

    [QUOTE][ It was his personality that made him a star, not the tricks he learned. /QUOTE]

    that, and the fact that he was already a successful writer who had gotten to travel and hang out with plenty of celebrities. not to mention a great physical stature and 6 figure income. those things help lol


    just a quick way to build a little attraction, that fades extremely fast, because it's not genuine.
    my feeling is that attraction comes from the combination of both what you are, and who you are. some of it is under your control and some of it isn't.


    I don't know when to move from A2 to A3
    and this would be why I'm not a fan of the classic MM. its too rigid. "A3" is all about showing some interest back. when the girl tells you something unique about her, its is paramount that you show some appreciation. you know what people love more than anything in the world? genuine appreciation. if she tells you something informative, tell her "wow, I would have never known about that if it weren't for you." or if she tells you about something awesome she did you could tell her " you're a real hero, I would have never had the courage to do that"

    some might consider this to be over the top flattery, I don't believe it is. everyone wants to feel like they matter, and nothing brightens someone's day like a little appreciation.

    if you're having trouble in "A3" then that's what you need to get past it.


    now, I prefer jugglers method (mentioned in his book "how to meet and connect with women" by wayne elise)

    wich would be along the lines of

    1. bait the girl into making an effort (get her to qualify)
    2. reward her for that effort
    3.countine doing this and find ways to appreciate her uniqueness.
    4. countinue all of the above as a cycle of effort, reward, unique appreciation. while further building a sense of comfort
    5. up the cycle by adding in sexual tension and escalation . (tension during effort followed by escalation for reward and appreciation)
    6. keep repeating and building it until it snowballs into seduction

    note: this is my short and sweet summary of how juggler method should work. not actual text from his book witch can seem a little scatter brained compared to my assessment of it.


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