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  1. #1
    Mike413 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default How to be good at conversations

    This is a very general question. With a lot of women(especially women I don't know at all or very well)the conversation stalls out. They don't offer anything and do ask questions or make any effort to get to know me. I could just say well they aren't interested but to be honest this is most women especially in the beginning. I've had average looking women give me the cold shoulder and beautiful women show interest and ask me questions so there's no rhyme or reason to it but generally speaking most women will not make much effort at all and I have to do all the work. So my question is what do I have to do to get good at conversations and keep things going? I know it takes practice but I just want a good starting point. Thanks.

  2. #2
    alphabeta is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    Hi Mike

    In order to be a Good or even a Great Conversationalist you need to know a little about a lot, as that way you are able to stop a Conversation from dying on its 'Backside' as you can keep switching subjects in order to keep it alive.

    Then once you find a Subject that interests your 'Target' you can then lock on to this, as you start to build a 'Rapport' while at the same time be at the ready to switch onto something else at the moment you can sense a Conversation dying out.

    A bit like stirring the Embers of a Fire.

    But approaching a girl requires a Certain 'Technique' or in a 'Nano Second' She will be thinking Oh! Oh! That guys trying to hit on me!

    At which point her defences will go up and as such could be very hard to break down.

    So one of the favourite ploys that I use, is to come in from 'Left Field' and Start the Conversation, in a way that She is not expecting, as this disengages her 'Logical Brain' and as such can make the job a whole lot easier.

    This is an example of a genuine Conversation that could have led on to a date.

    They had recently done a refurbishment of my Local Store (which was a disaster!) as it made it very hard to find stuff.

    So on the way out with my Shopping, I caught the eye of the girl at Customer Services (A mutual Smile and IOI from her)

    In response to this I walked up to her and Started the Conversation with these words:

    Me: Its not your fault.
    Her: What do you mean?

    Me: You didn't design this Store.
    Her: Oh! how can I help you.

    Me: I've been here since 8 am trying to find the Onions and I think 'You' could have done a better job, because girls are usually better at that sort of thing.
    Her: Do you think so?

    Me: No I know so! Your Hair looks amazing and you make that dress look hot! (flirt! flirt!)
    Tell me where did you get it done, as who ever cut and styled your hair ought to be given a medal, it just looks awesome! (flirt! flirt!)

    Then we spent the next 10 minutes talking about Hairdressers and Her Outfit. (All about her and not about me!)

    The Result: A massive amount of 'Rapport' built up without even trying and I could have switched the subject at any time I liked and kept her talking and 'Interested' as She could immediately sense that I was very different from all the other guys she got to talk to.

    I know I could have pulled her but She looked a bit too young (about 18) so I decided to politely excuse myself.

    Me: Got to be going now but nice to talk to you.

    Her: See you at 8 o/c Tomorrow then.
    Me: Are you sure you can wait that long? (Big Smile)

    At that point I could have pushed the Button and said I'm taking you out! (my favourite line) girls love that direct no nonsence approach.

    But as I say She was too young, so I decided to pass on her.

    So if you are not a great conversationalist, you could try the 'Left Field Approach' It works for me!

    But do get into the habit of talking to everyone you meet both guys and girls 'The more that you practice, the easier it gets'
    The Power in a Relationship always goes to the one who cares the least

  3. #3
    Mike413 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    To be honest I'm not sure how much that will help me but I'll consider some of those things anyway.

    I'm interested in trying to figure out how to keep a conversation going and how to get her to invest more in the interaction so that it's not just me doing all or most of the talking.

  4. #4
    alphabeta is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    Hi Mike

    The 'Art of Conversation' just to give it a name is not something you can pre-script like a Speech, as it has to be spontanious as well as interesting in order to engage the other person, in what is otherwise known as an interaction.

    Many people are lucky enough to acquire this skill while growing up and never give it a second thought or even ever regard it as something that has to be learned, which means they never have to think about it.

    It's just there, for any time they want to use it and as such can produce a Conversation literally out of thin Air.

    As with anything else in life, it's never too late to learn but only providing a person is wishing to do so.

    So my suggestion for what it is worth would be to go and join a 'Debating Society' where I feel you will soon pick up the kind of Conversational Skills that are required in order to be able to keep a Conversation going without the prospect of it dying out.

    Lots of Girls attend these things, more often than not in the hope of meeting someone just like you.
    The Power in a Relationship always goes to the one who cares the least

  5. #5
    Mike413 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    I'm actually not bad at conversations in a social context most of the time but it really depends on the people. Women typically(whether it's because of social conditioning or whatever)typically do not initiate conversations with men even if they aren't romantically interested in them unless they are selling something or asking for directions etc. As a man I have to do all the work and sometimes it gets to be a bit tiring and frustrating(just being honest here)especially when I get little if anything in return. My point is I am ok with group or social interactions and don't like to wait for others to initiate a conversation with me(regardless of gender)because usually I find that it either won't happen or I'll be waiting a while. So while I have no problem with conversations in general I do when it comes to initiating and holding a conversation with women especially if I am trying to get to know her better(ie in a romantic way).

    I don't know about a debating club. I'll see if there is something like that near me. I used to belong to Toastmasters(if you know what that is). I was thinking about joining again at some point.

  6. #6
    alphabeta is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    Hi Mike

    In general terms its almost always down to the guy to make the approach and then initiate the conversation, as women want to feel wanted and not to come across as being the 'wanter'

    They are also terrified of rejection, which also contributes in holding them back from making the first move, as rejection would really knock them for six and hurt their Self esteem and as such that's a pair of dice no woman really wants to ever roll.

    So in order to make her feel wanted, you first have to get her warmed up by Flirting with her.

    I used to be really pants at that stuff, even when I had a Wingman with me and trying to do it on my own was like sticking pins in my eyes, the reason being I used to over think it and then when I got turned down, it would leave me feeling crushed and make it even harder to move in on the next Target.

    A stone cold approach on a woman was something that I never found an easy thing to do because unless you have the Confidence to really back it up and no 'Social Proof' to support it, then the chances of failure are high and if you send out signals that you are desparate and needy, then she won't be switching on the green lights you are hoping for.

    That is not aimed at yourself by the way, its just an observational type of comment.

    So in order to overcome that when I am out on my own, then I always try to come in from 'left field' in a way that they are not expecting, as I'm sure I may have said before. like 'Wow your hair looks amazing, who did that for you?

    Which is generally enough to give you something to build on, if you know how which I do.

    As I've yet to meet a woman, who will take a Compliment and then throw it back in your face and if anything She will be nice to you, as she wants even more, as this makes her feel good (Wanted)

    So the confidence thing was a problem for me to begin with, until I had an idea, which was to go to a local bar that used to have live bands and asked if I could run a disco in between the times they were taking a break.

    Which I offered to do in exchange for free drinks and a burger.

    No fancy disco equipment, just a deck I brought from home, which the band allowed me to plug into one of their Amps.

    Where I found that in no time at all, the girls were approaching me with record requests and happily chatting away, which resulted in dates.

    'How the hell did that happen?'

    Well, by being the D.J I had inadvertantly given myself some 'Social Proof' (long before this PUA stuff ever came along) and so of course I never knew what that was.

    So striking up conversations with girls was nothing short of dead easy.

    Then I bought a Camera and asked the Band if I could take some Photos of them playing which I did and then I made them some Posters and Business Cards and Flyers all for Free!

    I just did it for the hell of it, even though it cost me a bit of money to do so and I wasn't a Pro-Photographer as I used the Camera on Auto most of the time but if you take enough photos, there are bound to be a few great shots.

    After which they brought along a Video Camera and asked me to shoot them a Show Reel.

    Dead easy just push the button and edit the footage.

    During which time, I was really getting myself really well in, with this little Pub Band and used to hang around with them all the time.

    Taking Photos for them and making Videos has now led on to loads of other things but where you have a band the girls will follow, so talking to them and flirting, is almost second nature for me now.

    As for the Band they pay me now, which has enabled me to build up a Collection of the kind of Classic Cars that I love working on.

    The reason why I am saying all this, is to try and give you some ideas, which will hopefully help you as much as it helped me.

    You could get involved with a Mobile disco, either start one yourself or else help someone else for free, where of course you will have to beat the girls off with a stick (Lol)

    Or do what I eventually did and buy a Semi Professional DSLR Camera.

    Where you can go to Polo Matches/Horse Trials/Dog Shows and stuff like that and ask the girl if you can take some Photos of her Horse or whatever thing She is involved with and in return then you will give her some photos, which will cost you nothing, just put them on a disc and in no time at all you will find that her friends want some to.

    And also want some photos of themselves.

    Then you'll have loads of girls talking to you and no longer have to concern yourself with keeping things like conversations going.

    I've also heard of the 'Toastmaster' thing but one of the above could be more fun as well as productive, as far as dates are concerned.
    The Power in a Relationship always goes to the one who cares the least

  7. #7
    Mike413 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    [They are also terrified of rejection, which also contributes in holding them back from making the first move, as rejection would really knock them for six and hurt their Self esteem and as such that's a pair of dice no woman really wants to ever roll.]

    Men are terrified too but probably not as much as women. Also, there's the factor that men are expected to do the approaching where as women aren't so they have the advantage of sitting back and waiting. But I do think it's uncomfortable for most women to approach much more so than it is a man. Like I said in another thread I think men are much better able to handle rejection than women. This might be because we are less likely to wear out emotions on our sleeves. That being said I do think modern women need to be better at the art of flirting and getting a man's attention so that he wants to approach. For this reason I prefer warm approaches(ie a smile or some other indicator of interest)rather than a cold approach(where the woman isn't even giving me eye contact but I approach anyway).

    Also, my brother was a dj for several years and I'm pretty sure he never got laid and I don't think it helped him at all with getting women.

    I'm thinking of taking dance lessons or maybe also cooking classes. I currently take art classes which seem to be filled with women but so far I haven't really met anyone that way. I am interested in music too but if I was in a band I don't think I would get chicks that way unless the band was famous.

  8. #8
    alphabeta is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    Hi Mike

    I think we can agree on the fact that men are always expected to make the initial approach, while the woman sits back and hopes the man will flirt or be entertaining enough to be worthy of getting a date.

    But women certainly do know the way of getting a mans attention, from the way they dress up in those short little skirts and high heels, which in themselves are more than enough to give a man the 'come on'

    Though from my own experience, I feel that you are wrong about the music.

    As even working as a Pub D.J. it makes you stand out from the Crowd in the eyes of a women and in someways helps to give you a bit of Social Status and (This is very important) Since the evolution of time, the woman always want to be with 'The Chief'

    It is also very well known that woman also love music and you will often see them dancing in groups on their own, or dancing round their 'handbags' as we used to say.

    Where even the members of tiny Pub Bands, never have any problem attracting the women, as like the D.J. in their eyes it gives them Social Status, which is very important to a woman and in fact much more important than many people think.

    So I correctly figured that by hanging out with them, it would in someways also help me too, although it did much more than that and got me started in the music business.

    In this respect I'm suggesting, that you take up a hobby or persue an interest where women always seems to be around, where as such I do feel sure that interesting conversations will come out of nowhere and give the woman a chance to get to know you a lot better, than some random guy who's just trying to hit on her.

    Art Classes can be quite insular, as everyone is busy concentrating.

    Cookery lessons will be much more fun and give you a chance to mingle and laugh at each others mistakes, as too will dancing classes.

    If I remember correctly, I believe that you also like running, so why not join a running or orienteering club or anything that brings you into contact with the opposite sex.
    The Power in a Relationship always goes to the one who cares the least

  9. #9
    Mike413 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    [I think we can agree on the fact that men are always expected to make the initial approach, while the woman sits back and hopes the man will flirt or be entertaining enough to be worthy of getting a date.]

    Well, I wouldn't say "always." Whenever I have suggested that I have heard women say "well, I made the first move" etc. However, I'd say maybe 99 percent of the time(based on experience). It is certainly not in a man's best interest to expect a woman to make the first move or wait for that to happen. Even if and when it does the chances of her being your type are usually pretty slim.

    Well, my brother was a dj like I said and it didn't seem to help him. I have heard that even guys in a local bar band have to put in some effort to get women's attention(they won't come up to them typically)but it will admittedly be easier for them because of social status like you said.

    As for running, I don't think that was me who said that. I have run a little bit in the past(I even did a 5k once) and I occasionally do it but I really don't think I have ever mentioned that on here(not even as Mystik). I do belong to a gym but haven't gone in a while. I find the gym to be not very good as far as chatting up with women goes. I think concerts can be good. There are times when I have almost met women at concerts or did but didn't pull the trigger and get their number etc. One time I wound up hugging a woman for 2-3 minutes after talking to her for only five minutes at a concert. She probably had been drinking a few though so I'm not sure it counts. I could have escalated to a kiss and I'm not sure why I didn't. Oh well. My main problem right now is I have no job and no money(or very little)so that hurts my social status and my chances of women taking me seriously once they figure that out. I suppose that's one reason I am trying to keep things very casual.

  10. #10
    alphabeta is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: How to be good at conversations

    Hi Mike

    I'm really sorry to hear of what you said about your job as I have been in that situation myself and so I know just how you must be feeling.

    Like life has just dealt you a very bad hand, which can sometimes make you feel as if the World is against you and can knock your self esteem right out of the Park.

    So I think you need to get back in the game to make sure that this doesn't happen, even if its something like Trading on ebay, while you are waiting for something better to come along.

    As that way you will at least have enough to take a girl for a Coffee and a bite to eat.

    If you took some unpaid work in a Charity Shop, you will automatically be meeting lots of girls but because you don't get paid anything, they will normally make that up to you by letting you have first pickings of anything you want, either at a knock down price or more often than not for free!

    Which of course you put straight onto ebay.

    So straight away you get a 'Double Whammy' You get to talk to lots of girls and strike up Conversations during the course of working in the Shop as well as the chance of making some Serious Money.

    $100 - $200 per week should be very achievable on stuff like living room furniture.

    When I was working in the Charity Shop I bought a leather reclining chair which they let me have for $10 which was just like new and the New price of these was $2,000.

    I then sold it on ebay for $500 its really not that hard to do something like that.

    At least it will get you back in the game, so I would say that its well worth considering.
    The Power in a Relationship always goes to the one who cares the least


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