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  1. #11
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    I'm going to take the mantra of my good friend Tropics here "There's no such thing as failure, only feedback"

    You may have missed an opportunity, I don't really know, really tough to say. Wait 2-4 days from the last interaction and when a good option presents itself you can try again.
    If you are going to open cold, try something stupid and funny and random, maybe alluding to an inside joke.

    Keep in mind, you didn't lose anything here, you guys are where you were before the conversation or possibly slightly ahead.
    I will note this isn't quite what I mean about the push pull. I will use a concept I think David Deangelo came up with (one of the few great ideas I do like from him), Two steps forward, one step back.
    It would be more like, say theres a spark when you're together, you gently pull away so she ends up kissing you. You guys kiss for a bit, hands moving everywhere, then (huffed with energy) you pull away and say somethin like "what are you doing to me girl", etc. All stuff to pinn everything that happened on her
    Think of it, if you were the one who pulled away when you guys almost had sex, she'd be like WTF? Preferably you do it in a few steps cuz then her momentum keeps rolling

    I am guessing she would have accepted. But if she really really wanted to she could have asked you too. Maybe she was secretly hoping you would invite her? Who knows, if she was tho, that desire will be stronger next time, so I wouldn't worry about it.

    The game is all about risks, I still face rejection or hot numbers that grow cold all the time. If you think through something and it really seems right, go ahead and try it.

    My most important advice to you however is that you start networking more, talking to other girls, working on other options.
    Even if this was the girl you wanted forever, talking to and flirting with other girls has a drastic effect of helping your game with her. It just makes you more confident, more comfortable, and less worried about what happens, and better prepared with how to handle everything.
    Its wierd, but it just helps.
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  2. #12
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    The "two steps ahead, one step backwards" really explain what you mean quite well, and it's a golden advice, I think.

    Also, yeah, I am quite focusing on her — not really because I have oneitis (though of course I care for this girl) but rather I don't have much time lately all in all: work, and studying for my dissertation, and housekeeping and everything… just leave me so little time.
    I agree with what you say, though: gaming other girls has a sort of liberating effect.

    Anyhow, in some sort of unexpected news, she just sent me a text message, and here is 3:00 AM, I'd like to know your thoughts:

    « Why did you write yesterday? First you delete me from Facebook and then you write in the middle of the night. Your text made me happy but gave me hope that we don't have to lose contact, that I don't have to lose a friend… Miss you and this city is so full of your presence. »

    I love how people take this Facebook thing so seriously; I deleted her just because I honestly didn't want her news feed to pop out in my daily life, AND because FB actually helps you maintaining some very superficial relationship; which is what I don't want.
    I'm impressed how strong do people perceive this deleting from Facebook: it got me a girl before as well.

    Really unexpected text message.

  3. #13
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    "and this city is so full of your presence...."

    Means she can't stop thinkin of ya

    I don't think you need my advice here, you know what to do don't second guess yourself

    I could guess what to say. Maybe feed her a bit of line first "sorry girl guess I've been thinkin about you too", then she'll come back and bla bla bla and then u can throw out goin for a walk or whatever, if she promises to be good
    Don't even address the nature of the relationship, if girls bring it up I say "I don't wanna put this in a box"
    If you leave it undefined you can get where you want while still keeping her plausible deniability
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  4. #14
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    Your timing was spot on, as you replied the moment I was editing my message to ask about what if she addresses the nature of the relationship.

    Though I agree with your way to handle that issue, there is still something that worries me about the undefined relationship approach. From her message I kinda deduced that she is very uncomfortable in the situation were she has lost any relationship with me, but she also said “I don't want to lose a friend” — I am preoccupied that her goal now is just to settle down on a comfortable relationship: like she knows she can see me, and perhaps add me on Facebook and all the shit.
    I guess I have to be really careful on how I handle our interactions, because if I leave all the first steps to her, I'm sure we're not going anywhere.
    I guess the point would be to keep the sexual tension high, no matter what the logical brain engages with (like normal conversations).
    Not sure how to approach that.

    In the end I answered her like this:
    « Now who's the one writing in the middle of the night!
    Why? No hidden goals, I guess I've been thinking about you too. No one appreciates a good storm nowadays. »


    While I was writing I hear the PING of a new text, send this, check it out and it's from my ex-girlfriend (we broke up less than a month ago) and goes like: « I keep thinking about us… »

    And I'm all like to myself: WOAH! Gimme a break ladies!
    And I took a bath. The girl didn't answer but it is quite late, so I'm not surprised.

    Thanks again for your pointers.

  5. #15
    Killian is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    Nice job, ShinRa.

    By the way, are you Chinese?

  6. #16
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    Thanks Killian.
    And, no, I'm not Chinese. If I was I would probably be ShénLuó rather than ShinRa, wouldn't I? :)

    As for (not very exciting) news, she sent me a text message today. I was fast asleep, since yesterday was Saturday and I went to bed in the early morning.
    So I didn't see it and could reply. The text goes as follows:

    « As you broke the silence vow, C. and me are going to X place if you do(n't) want to bump into us. »

    C. is her flatmate female friend, and X place is a very big park just in front of my house, where we went for several walks together.
    She honestly sounds quite pissed off, though I guess that a text like this is, anyway, an IOI.

    Not sure if to answer now, perhaps we something funny (though not sure how far can I go with the funny attitude, given such a tense behavior), or maybe just not to answer and take it as if I have a pending invitation I can use later in a different way.

    I don't know, as don't answering would increase the tension probably, and I want to make it clear it's not a vow of silence, and she should feel free to invite me for walks like this… I guess.

    God, this is getting a little complicated LOL

    ShinRa

  7. #17
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    Yea the tension ain't helping you

    You may need to backpedal a little bit now, "sorry I missed the invite I was asleep, wanna talk?"

    The girl is gonna search for a definition on your relationship, which means you agree to be just friends or you make it clear your only intent with her is for more. Either way you don't win. You are better off leaving it open and undefined. If she wants to push it you can respond with something like "we are friends, I like seeing you, and I'm not going to define this, friends don't put each other in a box like that"
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  8. #18
    ShinRa's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    This is becoming more an intellectual challenge than anything else; more like a Chess game.
    Anyhow, I won't bore you with the details; in short, I sent her a message, and went for a light tone. In a few exchanges, I thought I had managed to break the tension a little.
    But then she didn't answer.

    About one hour later she sends me an email, quoting a passage from a book I gave to her and adding: « I don't know how to thank you for this... »
    Then she shares a Youtube video with me, which could really be significant, I'm linking it to you in the English version here [EDIT: Woops seems I cannot add URLs to posts] — besides, it's really cool.
    I guess I get the meaning of such a message, but I would like your opinion.

    I assume I managed to break the tension and did another little step forward.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    Hey,

    Sorry for the double post, but I was wondering if I could get some feedback for this update.

    Eventually, a lot of tiny things went on and I'm not going to summarize them because it would take too long. I will just tell about tonight, as I feel I might have overdone this.

    So, I totally followed all of Red Baron's suggestions, and two days ago I had sex with another chick. Fact is that while we were doing it this girl just left me two bite signs on my neck on both sides. One is really visible, the other one quite so (I actually didn't notice). I'm telling this just because I think those have a role in tonights' update, and the fact most likely does in a bigger perspective (we talked about the effect of gaming other girls).

    So basically I invited her to see something and she reacted really excited about this invitation. However, she brought her friend. When me and her friend were alone she kinda pointed out to those signs as she noticed them (I became friends with this girl and we had hang out together a few times, we're quite comfortable with eachother). I wasn't really showing them off, as I was wearing a scarf, but I took it off to see the movie and so she noticed (and she noticed both of them).
    During the projection we sat beside eachother but there was absolutely no kino.

    After the movie she actually invited me to a party that would happen shortly after. I accepted. We came to the place but the party wasn't actually there. However, I did happen to meet by chance a friend of mine whom I hadn't seen for a while in that moment, and he was really excited about seeing me and invited us over to his place for dinner.
    I ended up actually cooking dinner and it was kinda tasty.
    After that my friend asked me to put on some music, and I put on some rare but awesome stuff to which everyone just reacted like: « Amazing! ».
    Then I took control of the situation and told everyone to go around and find something to do.
    And we did.

    While walking we met a girl friend of my friend who insisted to introduce us to her friends and, after a while, just basically isolated me and kinda blatantly start hitting on me. We interacted alone for about half an hour: she was kinda cool, but I wasn't really that interested in that sort of way.

    After that my friend leaves and I immediately meet another person who lives with a dear friend of mine; I just call him and he comes from his house with another friend to meet me on the street. And they're really excited about meeting me and say all kinds of stuff like: « I have to show this/that. » « Why don't you just sleep over at my place tonight? » and the like.
    I just tell them I won't and after some talking we part.

    Her friend tells us she's going home to sleep, but the girl I'm interested in stays. And actually treats me to a beer.
    We go somewhere alone and we drink this beer and at some point she says:
    « How are you coming back home? By bus? »
    « On foot. » I tell her.
    And she's like: « I feel so bad you have to go back on foot, I mean, you could sleep in C. [her friend] room, or in mine, I don't know, I just feel so bad. »
    and I'm like: « Uhmmm… no. No. »
    « Ah. I understand. » She says.

    I walk her home and she tells me: « So you're coming on Friday, right? » because she previously mentioned a movie she wanted to see at the cinema; and I'm like: « Uhm, yeah, I think so. We'll see. Keep in touch. Good night. » Hug, and we part.


    Ok, the reason while I told things like that is just because all in all, I think there was a great context and things went smoothly. I had pre-selection in the form of the bite signs (my friend also noticed — he thought he was something from one of the girls — so I doubt she didn't notice) and being hit on by a random girl; I had lots of social proof.
    Besides all of this, I had kino going on.
    I must admit it wasn't anything amazing, like she struggling to hold my hand; but I had my kino going, and she kinoed much more than I did.

    You will of course understand what is my doubt now: just after I said that “No” (following a bit too much the advice of make her chase, and being aloof), I thought: « WTF did I just say?! ».
    In some way I thought there hadn't been enough sexual tension that night to just escalate at her place; I kinda felt that escalating would be inappropriate and would have ended up really badly, so I thought to just refuse her.
    But of course now I'm thinking I may have screwed up an opportunity. I still feel the same about the sexual tension and it being awkward because there was not enough escalation, but maybe I could have done something once in the spot, as I had all this good context going on and HUGE IOIs.

    Following that quoted mantra of « There's no such thing as failure. Just feedback. »*I would really like to get to understand what went on well or went on badly in this interaction. And I'm really curious about any opinion, analysis.

    Thanks as always,

    ShinRa

  10. #20
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: When to fight and when to next?

    Overall good stuff
    I understand your sticking point on saying no. I think you would have been better off with something like "I don't know if I should...." or something to show resistance at that point

    I've been reading more of jugglers material and he has some good notes on creating sexual tension by putting up false barriers
    Keep in mind she took a big step saying you could sleep with her, it's ok to accept it when they show compliance or submission, "I would like that, if you can keep your hands off me, I promised myself I would be good"
    This turns it around on her and creates a bit of a false barrier, the illusion there is something to resist against but really it's not actually stopping you

    Preselection works great. It sounds like you were just a bit off your game tho, you should have been flirting a little with all of the girls showing you some interest, even if you're not really interested it builds up the jealousy and gets you primed
    You could start with simple stuff too, prod her leg during the movie or whatever, stuff you did as a kid, she was sitting right next to you so you had opportunities to bait her into the flirting

    Glad to see you working on your other options

    Try to get in game mode before you see her Friday, review some stuff on kino and escalation or whatever will help you before you go out so it's prepared
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval




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