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  1. #1
    Dave-o is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Escaping Friend Zone - tell her about a date?

    Been on two dates but been consigned to the FriendZone.

    First date, seemed perfect, we chatted well, I hugged her when I met her, and we had a lot of eye contact and she mirrored my body language. On the first date we made plans for a second date, so I thought we were there. My major problem was, i think, a lack of kino. we had the hug but that was it! yes, i know it was a mistake but then I've been on first dates that had no kino but which ended with a second date. We had been out for dinner and so harder to kino whilst sat there at dinner across from each other.

    The day after she text me letting me know that she'd thought about me a lot but that I was like an old friend that she could chat to about anything.

    Second 'date', I tried to do all the things that I failed with on the first date. I wanted to kiss her but given that she had told me we were friends when we were actually out, it seemed pointless ending the night by trying to kiss her. I tried building kino but the way I see it, if I'm in the friend zone, the kino will build too slowly and this won't make a difference. When we had the chat, I probably made a further mistake as I complimented on attributes that a friend would notice, about her character and nothing sexual.

    Everything seems to be right in terms of I'm not always agreeing with her, we're having banter, we have a lot of eye contact and it feels like there's ioi but..she keeps on about friend zone and apologises for this being so.

    I have a date with another woman, arranged before my first date with this one.

    Should I tell her that I have another date lined up?

    We seem good, connect but the spark somehow needs to be generated.

    I'm half considering just writing her a text, telling her that I think we would be great together but as she only wants friendship, perhaps we are best going our own ways. I would write it as if I had made my decision, instead of as an ultimatum. I guess I want her to think of losing me completely or us dating.

    I know it's early days but I get hooked too quick. I also wonder whether her attitude has anything to go with my reputation as people say that I used to be a bad boy and that I used to have flings. If there is a trust issue. And really, it's not true, it was created when I used a tactic to create more mystery and more edge.

    Finally, when we went our own ways, I told her that I had one word for her at the end. She wanted to know what it was. I said 'see you later' but in a different language, a language that we were talking about. She seemed a bit disappointed and asked whether that was it. I'm wondering what she actually wanted. Does she want me to make the move out of friend zone by kissing her? Is it a form of shit test?

    As we were out for a long time and it was me that decided we should leave. I felt as if she would have stayed longer if I'd wanted to.


    Confused!!

  2. #2
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    costarica is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Escaping Friend Zone - tell her about a date?

    Dave:

    1. "I tried to do all the things that I failed with on the first date. I wanted to kiss her but given that she had told me we were friends when we were actually out, it seemed pointless ending the night by trying to kiss her. I tried building Kino but the way I see it, if I'm in the friend zone, the kino will build too slowly and this won't make a difference. " << NO YOU DID NOT, and NO IT IS NOT.

    Listen, STOP LETTING YOUR LOGIC FEED INTO YOUR EMOTION. I have seen this time and time again. If the girl is with you, and she is obviously attracted to you, then kino her. She will resist maybe a bit more, but as usual, just reel back, wait a bit, and kino again. and again. and again. Guys think that just because a girl is their friend that they are "friend-zoned." I can assure you, that unless you have helped that girl through some difficult times in her life and have really gotten close to her, then you are not friend-zoned. It's in your head. You know who your close friends are, and so does she. It takes a LOT to get close enough to someone to really be considered "ZONED"

    The only thing you need to know is that the more "friends" you get, the more resistance you will get, but that it will take a DAMN long time for that resistance to turn into a brick wall.

    So the main point here, is just what you normally do, and continue to escalate. Since you are already talking and attracted, just increase your sexual overtones with her and really focus on turning her on and use sexual-tension push/pull with her. That works great and you can toss out stuff like 'one of the reasons we are about to just have amazing makeout sessions is that we are learning each other on a deeper level. That is incredibly sensual to me." << Girls LOVE the word sensual and it can re-pivot her "friend" thinking into "sexual trust" thinking.

    I used to be such a hard-core nerd that I still have the lingering effects of "going too deep too fast" and I've adjusted my game to just Pivot trust into sexual trust. YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL here, because you will experience heart-breaking a LOT of girls this way, so remember to just try not to hurt girls when you are like this. This is a powerful thing and it's can usually end pretty hard for girls. So when you pivot them over, start pre-framing them to realize that you are good friends and that it's great that friends can experience a closeness as well as sexual closeness without strings attached (say this after you close however)...

    2. There is already attraction. While there seem to be differing generalities on this, I see no reason to ever tell a girl about other dates, unless you are trying to introduce jealously into the picture. For me, that only seems logical with I would want to pivot a girl towards a relationship. Otherwise, it's just showing pre-selection, and there are other ways of doing that (for example, just going out as friends with a girl that isn't a date seems to have the same impact). Plus, since she is teetering on "friend" stuff anyway, you will just reenforce friendship instead of FB or whatever it is that you want.

    3. There is nothing wrong with getting hooked quick. I've been in this for 5 years now, and for me, that hasn't gone away with the really solid girls that I've been with. Some of us just such a deep-rooted desire for companionship, even when we know logically that we want to be single, that it's hard to tell our bodies "listen, self, i know you like this girl, but we can't do this. there are a lot of fish out there and we need to keep fishing just because we enjoy fishing." << Guys are a byproduct of biology, and this is a very easy thing to do, but very hard thing to say. Trust me. When I get luck and pull a 9 (and the very few number of 10's that I've pulled), everything in me says "STOP. Keep this girl." But then over time I realize, that I love to fish more than I love to have an aquarium. That's just me, and I've had to just force myself to incorporate things like "have you told this girl that having friends with benefits is a so good." After you've hooked up with her, this may take her off-guard, and you will lose 75% of the girls because they want exclusivity, however, in the end, you both will get hurt less, and that will make you happier in the long run until you do want to move into that aquarium with the same fish.
    - CR

  3. #3
    Dave-o is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Escaping Friend Zone - tell her about a date?

    Firstly, thanks CR for taking the time to read the post and then to formulate a lengthy reply, it's appreciated.

    Truth is that I set up a number of dates as I had been chatting to a few women and seeing how things went.

    I'm not wanting to continue dating more than one woman, I just wanted to find one that I clicked with and that I liked. I definitely am not looking for an f buddy. The attraction that I feel, and how quickly feelings take hold of me, puts me at a point where I would get too attached but have no good reason to be attached.

    I think she's attracted to me, she's told me that I'm 'very good looking' and that we can chat all day about anything, which to me, are both positive signs. She stays out for as long as I want and last night, even if it was a 'date' rather than a traditional date, the distinction being that I think she entered it as friends, rather than anything else, she was there with me until I decided that we should go. If she wasn't in to me at all then it would have been just as easy for her to up and leave and tell me that she was off as she was going clubbing with her mates.

    The banter that we have is good! We joke about with each other and I feel a level of spark in the interaction but maybe that's my side. I just prefer talking with women who don't get too serious, who can just have a bit of fun and play about. Furthermore, I don't understand why anyone who wasn't interested in dating, agreed to a second date part way through the first date and then went on the second date just a few days later than the first! If I wasn't interested in a woman, I wouldn't go on a second date that quickly.

    I have had other dates and wouldn't want to date them again, so hmm..

    I would like a relationship with her. I think that was why I was uncertain about the whole jealousy issue about telling her about the date. I know that, as it stands, I'm going to go in to the date with the other woman thinking of it just as friends. Which isn't really the right approach but it gives me a night out and practice at the art of conversation with women and the opportunity to try out ideas.

    I wanted to guage her reaction to seeing that I had another date lined up. In a way perhaps I'm over hopeful that it would spark her in to realising that heh, other women are after me, and then she could reconsider her option and her feelings. But I also know that it could backfire, she could decide that I'm not being too serious and how could I have a date lined up if I was meant to be seeing her.

    As you can see, I over think every situation a LOT, which causes difficulties.

    I know that all of us have one itis from time to time but whilst I'm debating whether she's the one, I know that she's one that I want to get involved with and see where it goes from there.

  4. #4
    Dave-o is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Escaping Friend Zone - tell her about a date?

    Think it appears time to give up this one. She has taken to the 'short style, non engaging texts' which seem to accompany the end. Whenever these start showing their head, it's only a matter of time before each of you become a memory. The lack of interest shows as they barely ask what you've been up to, why? Because they really don't care and so to ask you would be engaging you in a texting conversation that they don't want to have.

    Gutted to have failed but there are other women about, it was just two meetings in and if she just isn't feeling it then I may as well spend time finding someone else. For me, I always feel frustrated that the potential that I felt had been there suddenly disappears and you are left feeling empty, having had the good feeling that everything appeared to be going so, so well... replaced with.... nothing!


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