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Thread: Totally lost and confused, need direction for what's next:

  1. #1
    SecretSoldier48 is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Totally lost and confused, need direction for what's next:

    Hey everyone, new user but long time lurker.

    I have an ex-back problem, I’m not totally inept with women (at least I think), been into a few reading materials and payed attention to forums and methods of PUA. Been doing it for a few years actually. In fact, my ex and i got together because she was a target I was gaming and things just kind of grew. Didn’t expect that to happen.

    Any rate, I was hoping to get some other points of view on what’s going on from you guys (I’ll try to keep it short, I know there’s a lot of information to go through and attention spans these days…). I’m particularly interested in what T-Mal and the other all-stars have to say.

    It started a few months ago, she has a strong work ethic and was working a job in retail. She started taking on more hours and seeing me less, until ultimately she didn’t see me in person for an entire month. I got bitter and resented what was going on, and didn’t really call her on her behavior because I was letting her build a case against herself to really have some “ammo” and let her have it.

    We ended up having a fight over text when I finally called her out on why I was mad, which started with her saying “can we just pretend that everything’s ok?”. In the fight, she was very timid and upset (she said it was hard for her to text while she was crying), and said:

    -she works because she gets satisfaction for it. She got turned down for a job in DC in her degree field, and works in retail gives her validation that she’s not a failure.
    -Accused me of not being supportive because I was already asleep at 11:30 at night when she gets home.
    -The conversation escalated into deeper topics when she said: “If I said ‘hey my parents are home, do you want to come hang? Would you even want to come over? What if I asked you if you truly love me? What would you say?”
    -She said she has wanted to talk for a while but hid behind her job to avoid it, and we both should have been talking to each other (true). She said running away makes it go away.
    -She said she’d rather work than see me, which was a sign from the ‘cosmos’ that we weren’t meant for each other.
    -She was questioning if we were “in love” with each other, or if we “just loved each other” (whatever that means).
    -Started questioning a lot of things:
    -she wasn’t sure if she could handle the distance (We live near to each other, but I’m in the military and was getting ready to leave for 6 months - I’ve been in the military for almost 11 years, so it wasn’t like this wasn’t something she didn't know about getting into a relationship with me). She said that’s why she’s been distancing herself, to protect herself, because she knew I was going to be deploying again some several months after I came back from training.
    -She then said she thought that it was a sign from the “cosmos” (her words) that we were meant to go our separate ways. Wondered if we should split, because if we came back together, it would be a ‘sign’ and she’d know it was meant to be.
    -She justified working so much because “this is me, this is who I’ve always been”.
    -She wanted to know where I stood (I told her that I was as committed to her as she was to me, which sometimes is a lot, and sometimes isn’t.)
    -She said how we met wasn’t how it “should” have been (because I admitted to be a PUA when she called me on it, and knew about my past and questioned how we met I guess).
    -She said she had no idea who/where she’d be when I came back.
    -She summed it up by saying she didn’t want to lose me from her life.

    The following week or so we had icy/awkward conversations, never really resolving the issue. Still didn’t see her in person. Ultimately, a week before I was set to leave, I dropped off her birthday gift (her birthday was a few days prior) which was a picture frame with a collage of our pictures. I texted her and said I left her gift outside and to get it before the wet ground damages it. She text me back, said she opened it and was crying because it reminded her of who we use to be, followed shortly with “I just know I can’t be what we were.” And that she still liked me but “something was missing”.

    I tried to save face as alpha as I could, decided to be the one to call it off, and told her exactly why I wanted out (which I did): I told her that the “void” she thought was missing were all these things that she wanted out of me- all things that involved high-risk from me and no risk from her (being close with her parents, realistically every act of solid commitment from me with no real commitment from her, etc). I told her that in the course of everything, the game got stacked against me and there was nothing left that I could do. Nothing I could do was right or would fix it. She wanted me close with her parents, but wouldn't let me be close with them, and that it was setup so everything had to be mine to fix but everything I tried was rejected by her. She was actively looking for signs from the cosmos to prove we weren’t meant to be together and I wasn’t going to compete with that, and I wasn’t going to compete against her 3 jobs and be the bottom of her priority list. And realizing that the game was stacked against me, the only thing I could do was eject.

    She didn’t text me back for hours, and then told me that she fell asleep when she finally texted me. I acted indifferent.

    I instantly went into NC with her. A couple days went by and she texted me an innocuous text (something about a favorite politician we follow) which I did not answer, and a few more days went by and she texted me again which I didn’t answer.

    Part 2 below - trying to break this up.

  2. #2
    SecretSoldier48 is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Totally lost and confused, need direction for what's next:

    Trying to break this up so it’s easier to digest.

    I’m having a real hard time trying to figure out what is going on now, and this is really what I need advice on. I don’t know where to go from here, I think I’m too emotionally invested to think this through objectively. It seems like most the conversations start with me, and she’ll talk a little while we’re texting, but I have to be the one to initiate it. Here are the conversations/context of the recent days:

    Fast forward a month and a half of no contact with her, finally having a chance to cool down, meet new girls, fix my inner game, typical PUA stuff when getting ready to get back into the game. She texted me on my birthday:

    Her- “Wishing you a happy birthday! Wanted to say it earlier, but I didn’t get a chance working all day (what a shock) hope it was a good one” (“what a shock” was an inside joke for us).
    Me (an hour later)- “Thanks, great to hear from you! Was at bww with < friend > celebrating. Heading to bed, gotta get up early. More later

    A few days later, on Thanksgiving, I sent her an innocuous message and had a short conversation:
    Me- “Happy Thanksgiving! Just caught the football game and thought of you. Hope you guys aren’t rooting for the Bears lol”
    Her- “Thanks happy thanksgiving! no football watching for me today…i get to work lol”
    Me- “d1cks: the slave driver lol”
    Me- “Probably should have though of the context of that lol” (these were back to back messages intentionally to be a joke - trying to act like normal me in text messages).
    Her- “Lmao that was a good one”
    Me- “Lol is that sarcasm?”
    Her- “No haha I finally just saw it. Apparently < provider > is having issues”
    Me- “Yeah I feel your pain. I’m getting rid of my phone hopefully tomorrow. My battery tanks, I have to charge my phone like 4 times a day. I’m sure you remember the struggle lmao”
    Her- “Ugh yes i don’t miss those days”
    Me-“Hopefully I’ll get the iphone 6 before the black friday craze. Anyway, I’m going to bed, crazy headache setting in. Talk to you later.”
    Her- “yeah good luck with that.. good night”

    A couple more days passed and I tried another text:
    Me-“Dear < her >: I guess since I didn’t hear from you, that means you didn’t survive working Black Friday. Shame, I thought you were cool :P Nice knowing you! -A Concerned Citizen”.
    A couple hours later:
    Her-“Dear concerned citizens, I survived!”
    Me-“Phew. That’s a relief. I thought I was gonna have to start finding new friends to hang out with. lol”
    Her-“Aren’t you far away anyway?”
    Me-“Lol, yes because every time I travel I get rid of all my friends. Ask < friend 1 > and < friend 2 > haha. I’m coming home for Christmas anyway.”
    < No reply. >

    Lastly, I tried a maneuver I got from one of Michael Fiore’s books (one of many books I own on the subject), and sent:
    Me-“Good morning! I wanted you to know I think you’re a great person, I hope we can be friends someday again.”
    <12 hours later>
    Her-“Hope you weren't drunk that early lol”
    Me-“Of course I wasn’t drunk that early. lol that’s when my duty day starts.”
    Her-“Ah it was random for the hour”
    Me-“Well, I got nothing. Lol just wanted to tell you that I guess. Tell you how I felt about us.”
    Her-“Sorry terrible timing on my part i just got to work”
    Me- “Alright, take care then.”


    Thanks for you patience , I look forward to hearing your input. I’m at a loss as what I should do. Could really use some input.

  3. #3
    ConnorMaxwell72 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Totally lost and confused, need direction for what's next:

    Hmm, seems like there was a lot of insecurity going on, on her part. Especially if you're in the military and travel a lot - women look for their partner to give them stability and be that "rock", and if you're always gone, it leads to insecurity. Of course that's no fault of your own. Like you said, she knew you were in the military and it's not like you hid it from her.

    I get the feeling, based off what you said, she could be insecure about herself if she got turned down for that DC job. As a result, she probably questioned a lot of her life decisions at the moment and you happened to be one of them. She tested you because she felt insecure about the quality of the relationship. "Is this really the thing? Is this it? Am I wasting my time? Maybe he's not the 'one' for me?" When she tested you over them, on top of everything else going on through her head, you failed those tests and gave her a reason to question the relationship more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretSoldier48 View Post
    “If I said ‘hey my parents are home, do you want to come hang? Would you even want to come over? What if I asked you if you truly love me? What would you say?”
    Another example of her feeling insecure about everything. How did you respond to this? And what's the deal with her parents?

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretSoldier48 View Post
    She was questioning if we were “in love” with each other, or if we “just loved each other” (whatever that means)
    This is probably the thing I hate THE most with relationships. Women get this largely misguided idea that everything they see in Nicolas Sparks movies are the way "love" is suppose to happen. When really, it's based on chemicals and 250,000 years of evolution to get that "love" feeling (also, "true fact of humans": After the first 9 months of being around someone you "love", the intensity of feelings dissipate because we're hardwired to find the next suitable mate after we plant out seed).

    Anyway, what's worse is that it leaves it up to the man to have to narrate and create this "Disney Story" of how you meet your girl. But it's also about perception and how she feels. You can easily turn that around, but you have to appeal to how she feels - not logically explain the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretSoldier48 View Post
    She then said she thought that it was a sign from the “cosmos” (her words) that we were meant to go our separate ways. Wondered if we should split, because if we came back together, it would be a ‘sign’ and she’d know it was meant to be.
    Women make decisions based on how they're feeling, not logically like us. She had already felt that something was wrong to her and not right, and she started to look for reasons to validate her feelings because she couldn't explain them herself.

    Sounds to me like she's having a midlife crisis. lol And:
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretSoldier48 View Post
    -She summed it up by saying she didn’t want to lose me from her life.
    is usually a sign of conflicting feelings. It's hard for men to understand this, but to break it down in the simplest terms, her doubts were telling her to leave but she didn't want to hold the responsibility of making that decision. So it's like getting her way without feeling the weight of the bad shit that comes along with it.

    You did the right thing by going NC. Also, her crying over the gift is also a sign that she still likes you/invested in you, but her feelings of leaving outweighed it.

    I'm also a little confused on what to next, honestly. It seems like you're getting positive responses from her, but I don't know why she won't put the effort to reach out to you. I'm familiar with Michael Fiore's stuff and they seem to be a little fast paced, I could never get it to work for me.

    I'm not sure if the right thing to do is give it more time, maybe she feels guarded about it all or is waiting for you to step up? Has she said anything since this post? The second convo (about being friends) I think was a sh!t test, which I don't think you handled right. But she was (kind of) positive about the following text conversation, so I don't think there was too much damage done. And she might have felt you were up to something in the third convo about "I hope we be friends again."

    I'm not sure what to do next, maybe someone else has a different idea.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Totally lost and confused, need direction for what's next:

    she's a realist, she puts her work before everything else. she will always be emotionally distant and more connected to her goals than the people around her.

    that said, I believe that connermaxwell72 is on to something, the girl wants security. she wants to know you'll be home every night for her and she's now realizing that she can't expect that from you.

    I have several friends who are active duty military, and they all have the same problem dating girls. no girl wants to stick around for a guy who isn't going to be around her very often.

    her finding out about your next deployment is probably the straw that broke the camels back.

    and the fact that she prioritizes her career over her relationships just makes her decision easier for her.

    as for what to do:

    I believe she's already made her decision, some fancy line from Michael Fiore’s books isn't going to get her back.

    no sense in chasing after something that's already gone.



    remember, she's a realist. if you chase after her, you're only going to dig a hole. if you want her back you need to find a way to get her chasing you (and keep her chasing you) for things to work, she needs to be the one putting in all the effort.

    btw

    did you sleep with her? often a lack of sexual attraction is caused by a lack of sexual activity.

  5. #5
    SecretSoldier48 is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Totally lost and confused, need direction for what's next:

    Thanks for the reply,

    She and I had been together for over a year and a half. So yes, we did sleep together lol.

    I kind of had her pegged as that realist type when we met, a realist/modern woman kind of person. And she's always been kind of emotionally distant and always made sure she was taken care of (combination of a strong work ethic and being burned in a past relationship). That's what kind of caught me off guard, that she never acted like the kind of girl that was into all that mushy feeling emotional stuff. Just like it took me a while to figure out she was dropping hints of things she wanted... Typical post break up stuff.

    The confusing and hardest part I'm trying to deal with is getting over this barrier. I get positive responses from her when I text (a year of so of getting to know her texting language indicates that to me), but she rarely if ever initates the text. I'm afraid that if I do all the leg work trying to initiate contact to her that she'll back off, but at the same time, I wonder if she really is waiting to see if I would do that because she's always had that tester mentality (I always joked with her that getting her to date me was like going through the gauntlet lol).

    I'm not sure what the step is to get her to chase and put effort into it. I've read about giving her time to doubt her decision, particularly if what ConnorMaxwell said about her being insecure and doubting everything in her life. I'm just not sure what the first step should be.

  6. #6
    ConnorMaxwell72 is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Totally lost and confused, need direction for what's next:

    Well, if you guys had been in a long-term serious relationship, I would be willing to bet that she's thinking about you just as much as you're thinking about her. There's no way that being in a relationship that long yields anything less on her part, especially if she's conflicted about a lot of things in her life.

    If you're getting positive responses but she's not initiating much of the contact, it could mean a couple of things:
    A: She's just being nice to you. She's trying to keep things neutral, doesn't want to lead you on, she's trying to keep things civil.
    B: She's still timid about it all. She's got unsure feelings and she could be afraid to make an step forward. The harsher the breakup the more likely this is, going off what you said about "I don't want to lose you in my life".

    Both are easily approachable. The good thing is that she's responding to you with something other then "FOR fark SAKE STOP TEXTING ME", lol. What I would do, if in your position, is man the hell up and start leading. Show her it's ok, create a positive atmosphere, all the while avoiding talking about the bad stuff or the break up (at least for now). You objective is to establish an affirmative report and create an approachable atmosphere so that she feels comfortable wanting to talk and message you first. It won't be easy, you have to show her that you're beyond the negative emotions, take charge, take the lead. Subconsciously, no matter how independent women are, they all want someone to take charge and take the lead. YOU have to be the one to move things forward, open the door, and plant the seeds that will make her want to chase you.

    Demonstrate to her that you've moved beyond the negative parts of the break up and you've moved on from it. Women are very intuitive. If she gets the hint that you're still bothered by it and you're not on top of your Alpha confidence game, she'll think you're just trying to be nice or deceitful.

    If she wants to talk about what happened in the break up, be something like "I don't really have much to say about it anymore, I kind of move passed it. But I'll listen to what you have to say if you want to talk about it." Show her you're not living in the past and trying to move your life forward.

    Remember, once you've felt like you've build good rapport with her, flirt with her! But if you really want to sink the hook in and have her chase you, insist that you want to be friends. Stuff like "We don't work as a couple" or "I just want to stay friends for now", you're setting the barrier that you "don't" want a relationship, but flirting with her and amping the sexual Tension will do a few things:

    A: Make her want you more. People want what they can't have.
    B: She'll try to prove to you that she is worthy of your attention and a second shot.

    This is why no contact is essential, and it's always best to leave on good terms (they always say if someone wants to leave, don't convince them to stay, but help them pack their bags. It shows you're ok with it and you respect their decision, and also leaves them plenty of room to doubt themselves if they made the right decision. Fighting with them just gives them a reason to prove to you that their decision to leave is the right one). When you leave on no contact, you create a huge vacuum and lots of space to miss you, which you can play to your advantage when you interact. You're acting like you're flirting and you're that "fun guy" she fell in love with, while at the same time telling her she can't have you. At least not yet.

    What I would do is take some time to really consider and remember how you courted together. If she's telling you that how you met "wasn't the way it was suppose to go" then this is your chance to change that and also your chance to narrate a way that you two met. That way it seems like "it was meant to be" and its' like she's getting a second chance to prove to her to give her a second chance.

    Most importantly, and this is the ULTIMATE most important:

    Be ready and accept that she may not come back. She may not want to try again. In which case, you have to be ready to move on yourself and be ok with the idea that it didn't work out. This is not a science, not everyone works the same way. And there is a real possibility she may not be interested at all to start anything again.


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