Bartender help!

Is this bad for a bartender?so i went to a bar, and the bartender was very flirty and we had a decent talk. It was a quiet night, so she spent some time, letting me sample some foods and talked to me about life stuff (education, job, etc). As she gave me my bill, she wrote on it her name, number and e-mail. I decided to pull a prank and I tipped her 5 dollars on a 60 bill. I added her on facebook 2 days later and she sent me a message saying how it was weird i tipped a "potential" friend less than 10% and randoms. At first I thought, maybe she's a simply a golddigger, but she was so perfect at the same time and I wanted to make it up, so i went to the bar the following weekend, and started off with a note saying how it was a all a joke and added 20 bucks to her last weeks tip and ordered my usual drink (which she remembers). I have dropped by that bar maybe once every 2-3 weeks and had light convos with her. But can't seem to get her to hang out with me off of work. Did my joke ruin it? or is she faking being nice for better tips? or is she trying to get to know me better at the bar and see how I interact with others before agreeing to meeting? Is she playing hard to get? What are some things I could do to stand out faster? She always greets me with a wide smile and we had a great talk the last time, but she never texted me when I left her my number.

Hmm. I have friends and family who tend bar, and for that reason i never hit on the waitstaff, but I can tell you this much....

Good news: although bartenders and waitresses definitely flirt for tips, giving out personal contact info is NEVER part of that. If she gave you the digits, that's definite interest.

Bad news: tipping is serious business. You can joke about it, but never leave a joke tip. Regardless of what you as a consumer see a tip has, these people see it as their livelihood. Imagine if your HR department decided to delay your paycheck a month "as a joke". Not funny! Even if you come back with a big tip later, it looks less like a joke and more like you're just making up for leaving a bad tip (better than not making up for it at all, but still worse than never giving a bad tip in the first place). Tip too little, and you're a cheapskate (no matter the reason), tip too much and your an easy target. Best hit the middle ground if you are trying to game the waitstaff.

It seems like you still have good rapport with this chick, so all is not lost. My advice is to game her anywhere but the bar (it is her workplace after all, and now also a reminder of your tip fiasco). Use the same rules as you would for picking up a Stripper: distance yourself as far as possible from being a "customer."

You've got her number-- play the txt game! Vin dicarlo has some decent material on this topic.

i do the same for bartenders. they are usually hot and guys tip extravagantly, so i do the 15-20 percent EXACTLY, leaning a little generous side. your joke killed it dude.

you got IOIs, but you need to make up major ground now. sperate yourself from the other customers by tipping EXACTLY as much as she should get and take it from there. getting a number is a huge ioi in this case, where u didnt ask for it. you need some DHVing for SURE.

like i said, seperate yourself from the pack and work it from there, hopefully you learn from your mistake and NVER DO THAT AGAIN lol

a side question, clearly, when I go into the bar, she can't give me hugs or anything .. but she gives me a hand shake when i go in and leave the bar (she doesn't do that with other people) ... does that mean anything special?

Lol no, there's no secret bartender handshake.

If she really only does that with you and thats not just her "thing", then I'm guessing she thinks that's a little inside joke between you and her.

Usually for hugs, they'll wait until it's not so busy and come around outside the physical bar area (out into the customer area) to give you a hug. NEVER go back to the bartender area there behind the bar, a bartender can usually get in big trouble with the manager if they're seen letting someone back there (unless you're an employee of the bar yourself, and even then in some places you're not allowed if you're off duty, though that's rare).

If you do get the hug, it's definitely an ioi, though not as big as the phone number (they do the hug thing for good friends too). If the handshake is indeed an inside joke, it's a sign of good rapport, but if not I'd say you might be getting towards the friend box.

I've had bartenders lean OVER the bar to give me a kiss on the cheek, the handshake means nothing though, possibly even bad because its so generic. If u have the number, I would disappear from the bar for a week or so and hit phone game. Maybe a "I know you missed me I've been busy..." And invite her out.

The last time i was there was 3 weeks ago, but she was a server that night and she was busy running aorund serving, but she didn't come to talk to me or anything since was sitting at the bar. But she did yell across the room, my name and a hello.

I haven't been back to the bar for 3 weeks now, planning on going back in 2 weeks after I'm done with work.

Is there anything you guys can suggest to me doing next time I visit to test her interest level and/or make myself a higher value to her...

Well I once had a teacher who also waited tables as a side job. I remember that she would constantly complain about how people didn't tip her enough. Maybe under-tipping her was a bad idea. Writing a funny message on the dollar bill (if its not illegal...I think), would've done the trick. I would say its all a perception game now. Try to raise your value up higher now, because it looks like you already have good rapport. Keep gaming her as usual, but maybe less interaction. What you don't say is just as important as what you do. Vin states in "The Attraction Code" that the leads he got when he cut the conversation off early proved to be more promising than the ones that he gamed for longer times. Looks like you could do without that piece of advice for now though, because you should built your rapport again in order to..sort of come to terms with her. Apologize when needed, but don't suck up. If you know when you're wrong and apologize when necessary, it can seem like an alpha thing to do, but when you apologize too much, and really suck up, then it seems like you're a well...a suck up. I made that mistake once and really apologized to this one girl. She of course..dumped me after a while of doing that. So basically apologize, but don't suck up, and rebuild your rapport in order to rebuild your image, then when that's all said and done, keep the interactions in varying lengths, some short, and some long.

Good advice.

I'd like to add a note about apologizing:
Admit when your wrong. Clinging to it when you're really actually wrong demonstrates lower value-- either you're the stubborn pedantic who always has to be right, or you're the needy attention-whore who can't let something go. Either way is bad.

HOWEVER, apologizing itself can demonstrate lower value (though certainly the lesser of the two evils). It's all in HOW you apologize. If you can, avoid using the words "sorry" or "apologize"-- they're part of the kind of sucking up Element is talking about. Instead follow a formula like this: "It was a mistake to [your wrongful action]. I didn't mean to make you feel [insert negative emotion you may have created in other person]." This acknowledges your error, your good intentions, and (most importantly) acknowledges her feelings (which is usually all she REALLY cares about when something bad happens to her --same reason you just listen and be supportive when she needs to vent, rather than trying to fix her problem when all she really wants is validation and to vent). After that, just move on (to a new topic) and get back to having fun and being positive. After it's done, do not revisit the mistake.

That's the Alpha way to apologize. It may save your ass on occasion, but of course the MOST Alpha way is to simply not make the mistake in the first place.

OH and most important of all: NEVER apologize unless you are ACTUALLY wrong! I see guys apologize all the time for every little bad thing that happens to a girl, apologizing for actually being the man in the relationship, or even apologizing for things that order people do or that just happen-- NEVER do this. That's what Element I think is talking about not sucking up. An apology should be a well thought out intentional act, not a HABIT or a reflex. If you find yourself apologizing for anything to anyone out of habit, your primary focus before any other PUA stuff is to break that habit. Inner game, bros. Inner game.

Good luck!

true true, thanks for the input.

Can you guys give me more examples of dhv-ing? and to leave a better impression, especially I haven't seen her 3 weeks. I wrote a quick "how are you" e-mail just to keep a quick touch, which she didn't respond...