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  1. #1
    lucifer7 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    itís been 4 times recently that I take a girl home and fail to move from couch to bed.

    Each time taken separately I donít mind too much, but 4 is not so pleasurable .

    BACKGROUND
    All the times I went to a park, sitting on the grass with a beautiful view with a bottle of wine. Usually many people are there.
    Conversation has been good most of the times.
    I do touch the girl, but not overtly sexual and I don't get too close and I donít kiss before we get home (and ho hand holding).
    I never had to insist too much to get home, and I donít think they thought of me as just a friend.

    3 I brought home on the first date, 1 one the second as she was very cautious/scared around strangers and had class the day after.

    AT HOME
    I start kissing quite early on the couch.
    The kiss is either accepted at first try (3 cases) or after a couple of tries (1 case).
    Since itís the first time we are so physically close together and it can seem a bit pushed, I keep the conversation going after the kiss as if it were no big deal.
    And then I go at it again. Usually no strong make out comes out, but I do have my arm around them, touch their belly, touch their boobs.
    This can last around 15-20 minutes with me intermittently going for the kiss.
    Then, I say Iíd like to go to the bed and stand up.

    Reactions:
    1 we were at our second date, she said no and that she had to catch her last metro (true), I will meet this one again;

    1 didnít want to, also commented how did I have the courage to ask for that. She said she ďknew my typeĒ and how classical for people from my Country, asked how many girls did I bring home etc. etc. (this one I will not see anymore, wasnít sexually receptive and I think she reminds me as a creepy guy after having moved so fast on a physical level);

    1 was very inexperienced, was closing her body crossing her arms almost as if she wanted to fend off an attack, she had a BF but didnít tell me about it (I think she was too into me to give up on the chance of being together);

    1, this evening, stood up and followed me, but then chickened out before bed and fumbled nervously she couldn't and had to go (she had a BF).
    I think an issue was that she was completely dressed, maybe I should have made out with her while standing and started removing clothes (my idea was hugging/touching/kissing on the bed and start removing);




    YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE!

  2. #2
    lucifer7 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    Please donít read this before you have already thought/given some answers or my opinion will affect yours and you will not be able to add a different point of view .

    ISSUES
    Partially I have some ideas about what my issues might be:

    1. Buying temperature was not enough from them
    I might pause too long from kisses and talk too much to ďmake it sound naturalĒ and to make her horny with my coolness rather than my prolonged touch.
    it worked well in some cases, but some other times I might have to shorten and escalate more strongly, indeed I rarely move to strong sexual escalation on the couch as I plan to do that on the bed.


    2. Buying temperature was not there from my side
    My will wasnít super strong.

    I live with flatmates and I do give some thoughts that the longer the girl stays in my room, the less the girl on the other hand of the wall will sleep.

    I wasn't too much on a sexual mood either. Just kissing and touching a bit without facing each other wasn't making me super horny.
    Also:
    One had some breath issues after the wine (I would have done her, but that was a big turnoff);
    One I was pretty sure I was going to see her again and I knew she had to leave;
    One was putting up strong resistances, I wasnít too much really into her and I was pretty sure she was very much into me and would have happened anyway;
    One I thought just wasnít too into me and I didnít insist too much for her not to call the taxi (we agreed the taxi would come 20 mins later).

  3. #3
    lucifer7 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    Anyone?

    What do you guys think of not kissing at all before home (I know know, different situations different actions, but in general.. )?

  4. #4
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    marvilo is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    I think you should of started flirting and going for the kiss when you was at the park/where ever you was at before you brought the girls home. That would of created some sexual frame and get her ready for what would be in store once you brought her to your house. If you think it's best not to kiss before bringing the girls home in some situations then do that but kissing and Kino/other sexual escalation would've set the frame for the girl
    You lose some you win some, learn from your mistakes and get better!

  5. #5
    lucifer7 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    Quote Originally Posted by marvilo View Post
    I think you should of started flirting and going for the kiss when you was at the park/where ever you was at before you brought the girls home. That would of created some sexual frame and get her ready for what would be in store once you brought her to your house. If you think it's best not to kiss before bringing the girls home in some situations then do that but kissing and Kino/other sexual escalation would've set the frame for the girl

    Thanks for the input.

    Anyone else?

  6. #6
    Mikalichov is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    Ok, let's do this. I see a couple of easy to fix mistakes here (it's ok, I did them too)

    1 - This is the most important: you don't ask them to go to the bed, it triggers their resistance. Never say stuff related to her going in your bed (unless teasing). That's a tricky one, but avoid all things like "hey, let's go to my room" or "hey, you want to go in my bed?" As long as you don't say it, it preserves their plausible deniability.

    You will find it a lot easier if you just grab her hand, say "come" and take her to your bed. Works to get them to your place, works to get them to your bed.

    2 - And one thing I've found would make it even better is, don't have her sit on the couch! For example, before going out to meet a girl, what I do is: clean my room, make the bed look as comfortable as possible, and put random stuff on every other sitting spot. Then the girl walks in, naturally sits and the bed, and voila!

    We start chatting, and when we start making out, she's already in the bed. That's efficiency, folks.

    3 - Alternatively, if you can't do it (not sure your roommates would appreciate you covering the couch with stuff every day), why don't you just make out on the couch? You start kissing, escalate, escalate even more, and when it would start being too much for the bed, just grab her hand, say "come", and take her to your bed. And again, voila!

    _______

    Now, girl by girl:

    1 - we were at our second date, she said no and that she had to catch her last metro (true), I will meet this one again
    See? That's why you don't ask. Take her to your room, and keep making out with her. If she ever mentions taking the last subway, just go "yeah, you totally should", and keep making out.

    2 - didnít want to, also commented how did I have the courage to ask for that. She said she ďknew my typeĒ and how classical for people from my Country, asked how many girls did I bring home etc. etc. (this one I will not see anymore, wasnít sexually receptive and I think she reminds me as a creepy guy after having moved so fast on a physical level)
    Aaaand, that's a textbook sh!t test, congrats! It also means she was testing you because she was interested, so that's good. Next time go with "Oh, I've dated half the continent by now. Actually, close your eyes when you enter the room, need to check if there isn't a girl or two still sleeping there." Then grab her hand and take her to your room

    3 - was very inexperienced, was closing her body crossing her arms almost as if she wanted to fend off an attack, she had a BF but didnít tell me about it (I think she was too into me to give up on the chance of being together)
    not much info there, but yeah, she might have been too inexperienced to go straight for sex. sometimes, you need to stay with the making out "only"

    4 - this evening, stood up and followed me, but then chickened out before bed and fumbled nervously she couldn't and had to go (she had a BF).
    I think an issue was that she was completely dressed, maybe I should have made out with her while standing and started removing clothes (my idea was hugging/touching/kissing on the bed and start removing)
    Again, textbook LMR. Here is what went into her head:

    You: "want to go to my bed?"
    Her, before thinking: "ok"
    Her, on her way to your bed: *Wait, he said bed. It means we are going to have sex. I can't have sex. I have a boyfriend. I'm not a slut. I have to go.*
    Her, before your bed: "No, I can't, I have to go."

    You need to prevent her from triggering these thoughts, by not saying this stuff. It's hard to explain, and would take more space than the rest of this post, but basically, speech and actions are processed differently by the brain, with speech being processed by the logical part - and you don't want her to think logically about this.

    Hope this helped you, and good job anyway on taking 4 different girls to your place, that's the way to improving fast!
    Seduction is a martial art. Reading books and talking to experts is important, and helpful. But you won't progress unless you go out there and fight.

  7. #7
    lucifer7 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    Great post man, love it, thank you!

    The couch is actually in my room and I have flatmates but not roommates, but still most of it applies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mikalichov View Post
    Again, textbook LMR. Here is what went into her head:

    You: "want to go to my bed?"
    Her, before thinking: "ok"
    Her, on her way to your bed: *Wait, he said bed. It means we are going to have sex. I can't have sex. I have a boyfriend. I'm not a slut. I have to go.*
    Her, before your bed: "No, I can't, I have to go."
    How would you actually proceed to contact that girl with a BF again without switching the warning signals in her mind of "he only wants me for sex?"

  8. #8
    Mikalichov is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer7 View Post
    How would you actually proceed to contact that girl with a BF again without switching the warning signals in her mind of "he only wants me for sex?"
    Hmmm... I don't know what would be the "best" way to handle it, or the theory or anything, so here is how I would handle it.

    I would invite her to go get a drink together again, and flirt with her with strong body language but little verbal escalation. The rational part of her mind doesn't want to do it, but the emotional part wants to. So I would speak mainly to this emotional part, through body language and Kino, and get ready to power through strong resistance.
    Seduction is a martial art. Reading books and talking to experts is important, and helpful. But you won't progress unless you go out there and fight.

  9. #9
    lucifer7 is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    Two great messages Mikalichov, thanks.

    Last question, would you think that going for the hand holding when walking towards home could be helpful?

  10. #10
    Mikalichov is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: Sticky point - At home: from couch to bed

    If it's done naturally, sure. Grabbing the hand when running across a street works well for me. It's usually as awkward as you feel it is, so act naturally.
    Seduction is a martial art. Reading books and talking to experts is important, and helpful. But you won't progress unless you go out there and fight.


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