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  1. #1
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Death of a Chump

    (kinda long, sorry)

    Background - Just got divorced, just started traveling, more interested in finding gf types for a few weeks, maybe traveling together longer, not just random pickups

    So go to the bar last night for party, ended up talking a cute girl next to me all during dinner, for several hours at the bar after, then back at my place where we came to smoke. Interaction went exceptionally well, tons of Kino, no awkwardness, sexual innuendo, lots in common.

    We hang out on the porch here, not very good for kino as we're in big separate chairs. Doesn't seem like the jump in bed type, so I'm not sure what to do. She eventually says she's tired and asks me to walk her back to the hotel.

    Decide to escalate a little as we made plans for the next day to hang out, I put my hand on her stomach and go in for a kiss slowly. She doesn't stop me, but turns her head down a little and isn't coming towards me so I stop right in front for a sec, and say "no?". She says she doesn't want to do something she regrets. I want to keep it going instead of blowing out, so I play it down. She gives me a long hug instead (didn't feel like a friend hug) and kiss her on the forehead. Walk her back, talk a little longer, email exchange, another hug and peck and done for the night.

    Today, she comes down, but it's not the same as last night. I go for a hug at the door and it's reserved. We go hiking and eat (I don't pay for her). There's a little kino, some from her, but not at all like last night. Conversation never stops once again, but not as playful. She tells me about a lover in another country that won't work out.

    We talk about doing several things together in the next couple weeks. I'm not sure if I should try to escalate again or not, not sure if her stopping on the trail is supposed to be an opening, and not really wanting uncomfortable, so decide I'll try to again when we get back to my place to pick up her stuff (she has to go on to her next village across the lake). But, she checks her email and gets an upsetting email, starts talking about how her dad died a year ago and gets choked up. Try to give her a comforting hug, it turned into one of those one arm things. Figuring this isn't the best time.

    Boats stop early on Sun, so I walk her down. We make plans to hang with one of my buddies tomorrow in her new town at 3p tomorrow, which only gives me about 4 hours there before the last boat.

    So, I'm falling into the friend trap right? Plgh. I've got a very narrow window tomorrow and it seems that tomorrow might be my last shot at turning this around.

    What do I do??? She's only here for a couple weeks, so I don't have a lot of time to mess around. Should I try to ramp it up tomorrow? Maybe just tell her I'm not looking for friends but would to be more with her? Email her that? I really like her and could definitely see meeting up with her again, traveling together. (we're both traveling for a year plus). She's the only girl I've talked to here that I actually liked.

    Would REALLY appreciate any help here. Any pointers on what I should have done differently today would be great too.
    Last edited by freespiritgemi; 03-08-2011 at 11:28 PM. Reason: accuracy

  2. #2
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    FYI, lots of social proof over the past two days. Loads of girl interest and hugs with other girls and sh1t. Also, I do really like her and she's more what I'm looking for, but I'm not goo-goo or anything. Willing to walk, especially if it might get me out of the friend zone.

    Thinking of going over tomorrow moreso to conduct my other business (with my buddy) and be pretty uniterested in her, maybe just staying a little while after getting set-up, then saying I have stuff I've got to get done and bolt, not make definitive plans.

    I could do the normal breaking friend stuff now that I've read more on it (getting here was a good step forward for me in the first place), but it's just a bit different on short timelines. Not really sure either how to be playful and esculate while also being disinterested.
    Last edited by freespiritgemi; 03-06-2011 at 07:17 PM.

  3. #3
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Re: Help a noob out...


  4. #4
    Bill Preston's Avatar
    Bill Preston is offline Owner - PUA Forum
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    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    Hey man.

    Good story. It almost sounds like this one got away (already). Sounds like you HAD an amazing night that first night and now it is just kind of floundering.

    Here is what I think she is feeling.

    A) I like this guy, but I am leaving and I already have a long distance relationship of some type and it makes her upset... so why create another one.

    B) She was amped for you the first night, but you slowed things down in the chairs outside, which allowed her to question the whole thing.

    C) Now you are trying hard to get her, but that only pushes her away because you become less valuable.

    My thoughts.

    I think you should have escalated harder the first night when things are going well. I am not saying you needed to sleep with her, but you too her first sign of apprehension as a STOP sign. She probably at that moment wanted you to assure her that you were interested in her, and given her a soft kiss (again I think the separate chairs thing was the beginning of the end, but if you were better you could have used that to create a little more sexual Tension...)

    Next time a girl is giving you all those signals it is your JOB to escalate the sexual tension and the interaction.

    You were thinking too much about what she thought and not what you should be doing.

    Instead, you should have said maybe even as you were sitting down in the separate chairs.

    Listen, I know we just met - but I have an incredible attraction towards you. So for now, let's sit apart from each other so I am not tempted to keep touching you (or similar).

    You could also say, I don't want to rush into this, but I feel this amazing connection with you. I don't sleep around, and definitely don't think we should go to far - but I need to feel what it is like to cuddle with you.

    Again, remind her that she can only stay for a few minutes.

    But the key is to PUSH to that, let her know you are interested in her sexually.

    Instead, you are probably in the friends zone.

    With her leaving my hard advice is to become indifferent to her and move on.

    If she really wants you, she will make it clear.

    If not, anything else on your part will not only push her away, but will ruin your internal game for the next girl.

    And before you say "this girl is different", you are wrong. There are thousands and thousands of GREAT girls like this out there.


  5. #5
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    You rock Bill, thanks for the excellent feedback. This is new to me again after a long relationship. What you are saying making perfect sense though, was definitely a big change since last night right form the start of day two. I knew I was farking up letting it go so easy, but couldn't seem to stop it. Will be better at that next time.

    Definitely not going the 'the girl is different' route. It's mostly practice and if something else comes of it great. Going to try being in a somewhat sour mood and indifferent, say work was bad, but use it as a rapport break and not being too interested. Not sure how to throw attraction in the mix at this point, but maybe the break, and maybe her trying to pull me back will put me back in position to slide the meter to the right if we hook up again, but lessons learned if not and next time will go better.

    Staying in the game on it for now though, so any other thoughts about trying to salvage for the hell of it would be helpful.

    Thanks again, really appreciate it.

  6. #6
    Grifter's Avatar
    Grifter is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    It sounds like her mind was wandering. I agree with Bill that you should of escalated the first night but your looking for the just for the hell of it last chance, try a perment freezeout. Let the chips fall where they may. If she comes back, make sure you are ready, if not you know as an aspiring PUA that the game is not a big deal, you will live to fight another day, and will get eventually get another chance with another girl. This can be hard to internalize because we all have tendencies to ruminate but that is the holistic self telling you learn from your prior limitations and adapt for your next encounter.
    "Live life with a chip on your shoulder, a fire in your belly, and always have a smile on your face."

  7. #7
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    FYI: For all you who wonder if these guys know what they are talking about, they do. Esp for you who still get 'attached' and think she's the one after talking for 5 minutes. It puts you in an awful position from the get-go. If you really like her, then know that getting attached is only going make it less likely you get her, so counter-intuitive.

    Something else will always come along too, as long as you are putting yourself out there. Case in point for me, just got a knock on my door this morning by a gorgeous Australian., an 8 probably on the HB yardstick. (people think my rental is the kayak office, which is fine by me). Instantly went into the stuff I laid around thinking about I should have done differently last time, going too much for the comfort that wasn't building tension and getting her to picture sexual interaction with you.

    I threw in several innuendo's that would have normally been a little too far for me, but bam, started playing with her hair and laughing. Kept going with it and it kept working, her eventually telling me that her 'friends' she was just talking about she had actually just met and she's traveling by herself, etc. Even when she asked about the best time to go kayaking, I told her in the morning is better as the lake is calmer, unless "she liked it rough" then go in the afternoon.

    Farkin brilliant that stuff, 100% better than just being friendly and being to much of a wuss to take it into a sexual realm. She also mentioned going to see underwater art in Cancun soon, and how there were sculptures in different 'positions'. Definitely took that bait (is she playing me?) and raised my eyebrows and said "different positions huh?". Again, laugh, more hair twirling. Going to feed off that later teasing her about going to see underwater pornography. (teasing combined with sexual innuendo = good)

    Kino was a bit tough as I had just gotten out of bed and was a total slob,/hadn't brushed my teeth or anything, but I did try to get it started by doing the long handshake thing and wasn't going to let go until she did. She shocked me a little by not letting go either and somehow I subconsciously let go first anyway. Definitely will be more ready for that next time and will stand there for 15 minutes not letting go. The handshakes I've tried like that before where quickly withdrawn, so I'm taking that too as a sign that I was getting attraction built.

    The other point I'm learning too is really to stop doing the wuss thing. Be in charge. I flat out told her to come have dinner with me at the hotel by my place, she balked a little but said we could have drinks at the other hotel. I instantly put myself back in control by saying I didn't want to go down there tonight and totally just left her hanging. She said well maybe she would come down here then and knock on my door. Whether she does or not is irrelevant to me now, good progress again. Certainly hope she does though.

    The jealously / social proof is important too. She definitely started warming up past the friend zone when I started telling her about hanging out with the other girl yesterday and such. Definitely going to try to leverage this new one with the previous one, getting my stuff and bolting telling her I'm having drinks with someone and then Freeze-Out (she's here a lot longer, which is rare). I was good at the party too with lots of kino from different girls, and turns out she had been there. Was perfect too as she remembered me from it, but I didn't her. Was great chance for humor and value build asking if I had talked to her and didn't remember.

    If she comes for drinks tonight, my plan is to focus on a handful of the things I've been reading...

    Kino - I'm good at this, but need to keep pushing the boundaries to go from friend to lover. Instant hug at the door is great, breaks the barrier down instantly and it's never too much since the date is just starting, non-threatening. Going to work on making the kino more sexual in nature, ie not just touch her on the arm while talking, but going for the hand on back through doors and hair brushing stuff.

    Tension - I will be talking about sex tonight, going to try the 2 forward 1 back stuff, keeping her in the comfort zone and then pulling her abruptly into the attraction zone, then right back to comfort.

    Teasing - I'm struggling here. I'm really good at teasing, and it fits my personality perfectly, have near endlessly teased my past relationships. I'm finding it harder to do with strangers though. It keeps coming off as mean instead of playful, so I'm trying to find the right balance there.

    Push / Pull. Thinking of using her only being here one more day to tell her I'm going to break up with her as long-distance relationships don't work for me. Builds value too in that I'm rejecting her in a way.

    Escalation / Separation. Would be cake for you masters out there (and probably some noobs as my cool place right on the water is literally next door to the hotel, and seeing how she's just here one night, it's all or nothing without any potential of weirdness later. Going to be thinking and looking for innocent reasons she should come back here.

    If that works, then I'm going to try to lead things to the couch instead of the deck so there isn't the chair barrier I ran into last time. Going to use Bill's line if it ends up there anyway about the chairs being good so I'm not tempted to paw her. Not sure how I would get us back out of the chairs though.

    Humor. I lost this yesterday, whole day was factual.

    Alrighty, just throwing this stuff out for in hopes it helps someone else. Writing it all out helps me understand and strategize better. Interaction first and strategy second for you other noobs. Having all the knowledge in the world does zero good if you don't go out and apply.

    Any advice or suggestions for tonight would be awesome!
    Last edited by freespiritgemi; 03-07-2011 at 08:58 AM.

  8. #8
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    Ah, have a specific question. We're going for drinks (hopefully) and I understand the not buying thing (after doing it several times I started seeing how it put me in a weak situation).

    I'm completely ok with social lubrication though while I'm figuring this stuff out, though and many of the solo travelers here are tight on cash. Yesterday, the girl was talking about wanting a drink, but how it was going to put her over budget if she got the meal she wanted. I sat there stone-faced and said choices, choices, choices. She ended up getting the meal and lemonade.

    Would have been much better I think though if we had been drinking some, so was in a position I didn't know how to get out of. Any thoughts on that would be great.

    But more importantly, tonight. What should I do if things are going well and I want to keep it going and she says she can't spend anymore? Hm, kinda answering my own question here, but just had a great thought. That's actually a great opening for separation / escalation. I say, yea it sucks not having won the lottery yet or something, then saying I'm getting a bottle of wine tonight and hanging out at my place, tell her to come along.

    Does several things, #1) I'm not actually buying her anything, I'm buying it for myself but am willing to share as a reward for coming back here. #2) Gives us something to warm up the place here, opening the bottle. #3) puts me in control of seating as I hold the bottle, I sit on the COUCH before opening and pour glasses there.

    Badda-bing, on the couch, more wine to help keep it fun (I'm not the strongest at this yet), can continue the escalation there, the gazing and all that.

    Seems pretty perfect to me, going to try to work in a reason or two earlier in the night why should come back to my place too, ie see pictures I've taken, or something. Helps make it a bit safer / less slut-barrier for her.

    So glad you guys are here sharing. Would have taken me YEARS to figure some of this stuff without you. Sincere thanks for helping make my life better

    fark I love this stuff! So want to fark this girl tonight and am going full-bore towards that, fark being friends. I want to grab her hair and make her ass jiggle... lol.

  9. #9
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    Can't seem to Just another piece of advice for others. Get happy and get your head on straight. You exude when you do. Just walked up to the hotel, ran into two bit chubby, but sexy bad-ass Canadians chicks along the way and flirted hard and heavy (this Kayak guy thing is a god-send). Even pulled ones shirt down in the back to see her tattoo and rubbed my hand over it. Then, went up to the hotel where the lady owner (little older, but sexy French girl) was sitting obviously upset, asked her what was wrong and turns out there was a farkin fire on the hillside right behind me early this morning. Talked to her for a few minutes, didn't really flirt or anything, but she was getting giggly and doing the hair-playing thing. She lives here, so that might be interesting. Not sure I really want a gf type now though that sh1ts starting to come together. I was seeing it as not having to do the whole pick-up thing, but that's turning out to be the fun part when you let it. Don't get attached right away whatever you do (even if you really like her and want to marry her)

    Going to try to play the drinks with the Australian tonight against the Canadians who seem to be staying at the hotel. I haven't seen them before, so they might be here a little longer, whereas Aussie leaves tomorrow. I'm just wondering how I'm going to get the 2 Canadians into my single bed (was supposed to be bigger, ergh).

    Have fun guys. Above ALL though I've learned so far is not to get attached to one target, have fun with it and it starts becoming more and more fun all the while. What's her name from yesterday helped me realize that!

  10. #10
    freespiritgemi Guest

    Default Re: Help a noob out...

    Seriously getting addicted to writing stuff as it comes. Mod's, is that alright just to make this into a novel? We could call it ' To Kill a Chum'

    This letting them know you want to fuck them stuff is powerful, they want to cum and you can make them. My big hang-up was always not wanting to be a creep, and they don't want you to be either. I was even experimenting with just going up to completely random strangers and just telling them they can come down to my place later if they wanted and walking away. Didn't

    The keys I'm finding are to exude at first, but don't start in throwing sex talk in right away. Get the comfort, make them comfortable and laughing, be flirty, and as soon as you see the first sign (don't read into every little thing though), ie playing with hair, her touching you, etc, then that's a big green light and it's definitely time to start into the attraction stuff, verbal escalation.

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