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Thread: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

  1. #1
    Vicodin24's Avatar
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    Default What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    Way I've been brought up is that the guy pays - regardless. I've always been seeing around the forums that it's not the best thing to do.

    In my opinion, letting the girl pay is huge dlv, even if it's just a small portion. The couple of times (literally, couple) I've allowed a girl to pay made me feel like a loser (side note - we Russians actually have a word for a man who's financially dependent on a woman!).

    However, I haven't had any issues in terms of closing either way. Guess it's more of a personal/inner game thing. What are your thoughts?
    Always leave her better than you found her.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    Go Dutch. This is especially true in NYC. Girls in NYC date a ton and they assume you do too. This means, they don't expect you to pay and the "independent" types will often get offended if you offer.

    Alternative to going Dutch can be the, "I'll get this round, you get the next" approach. But no matter how you come at it, don't pay on the first couple dates.
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

  3. #3
    Ra1d is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    I feel the same way when it comes to the first date,I feel that it just delivers the wrong message.I don't go anywhere expensive on the first date,usually ice cream/coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuke View Post
    Alternative to going Dutch can be the, "I'll get this round, you get the next" approach. But no matter how you come at it, don't pay on the first couple dates.
    I talked to girls,and they said that it's a turn off when a guy doesn't pay on the first date.I was thinking about it a lot too,I don't know what approach to use to make her pay in a way that she won't take it the wrong way.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    I find myself on 3-4 dates a week. I'm not paying for all of them--it's that simple. I've never had a reasonable woman complain or even suggest that me not paying is a turn off. In fact, if a woman finds it to be a "turn off," then red flags go off in my brain.

    Listen, we were all "brought up" to grovel at the feet of women. The media, schools, and our parents have all ingrained this in our minds. In fact, this is the primary reason most guys turn to this site, because they find out that the shit they've been taught to do with women isn't actually what women want.

    Let's dissect the anatomy of a guy paying for the first date. When you get to a first date what has the women given you thus far? Other than given you her time, which you have also given her, NOTHING. So when you pay for the date you are doing several things. First, you are creating a hidden contract that suggests that you have paid for her time. This instantly lowers your value because it suggests that you have to pay to be in her presence. Second, it becomes awkward for the woman because she now feels obliged to spend time with you. This creates an awkward situation because the women feels like she owes you something. Third, instead of select quality girls who have strong moral underpinnings, you're pre-selecting for girls who are looking for a free ride.

    Basically, do what you want. But I've never had a problem getting laid because I didn't pay.

    As a final question, are you willing to pay for a girls drinks at a bar when you first meet her?
    "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuke View Post
    As a final question, are you willing to pay for a girls drinks at a bar when you first meet her?
    Nope.That was the first thing I learned when I got into PUA.

    And never once did it backfire,I just said,"ok you do the first round",or I did the lying game.

    Some of them would say "I don't have any money",I never found a good counter to that,most of the time I just said "so you were hoping that everyone would pay for your drinks ?"

    And that's why I've been thinking a lot about the first date thing,in a bar things move more quickly and the energy is different.
    When you're on a date,you're getting to know each other,it's more private and easier to get awkward

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuke View Post
    Let's dissect the anatomy of a guy paying for the first date. When you get to a first date what has the women given you thus far? Other than given you her time, which you have also given her, NOTHING. So when you pay for the date you are doing several things. First, you are creating a hidden contract that suggests that you have paid for her time. This instantly lowers your value because it suggests that you have to pay to be in her presence. Second, it becomes awkward for the woman because she now feels obliged to spend time with you. This creates an awkward situation because the women feels like she owes you something. Third, instead of select quality girls who have strong moral underpinnings, you're pre-selecting for girls who are looking for a free ride.
    I see what you're saying. Guess I've never given it much though. In the end, I get what I want, so why not save some money, huh? Gonna try this out for a while. Thanks, man!
    Always leave her better than you found her.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    It all comes down to avoiding the worship frame. where you worship her simply cuz she has a vagina. Lots of puas don't pay becuz they want the girl their dating to worship him. But i also know alot of good puas who pay for dates and still get the same results. Its all personal preference. But if you have a hard time with assuming the frame that shes paying id do that just so you knew you could then work your way back if you want to pay.
    "I've never seen anyone pull as quickly or as efficiently as you"
    -HarryRat(Simplepicku p)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    It's all about the individual and the level of interaction BEFORE the "date" for me.

    I've had it go every way imaginable... I pay, she pays, we split it... etc. It only becomes a big deal when you make it one.

    But generally, my first dates are nothing more than meeting for a cocktail... or maybe sushi. So even if I pay, I never spend more than $20.00.

    But there will already have been a lot of investment on her part during the messaging stage. And conversations ALWAYS become sexual before I meet up.
    The frame becomes, I'm paying because I want to.. because SHE proved herself to be a cool chick.

    However; what usually ends up happening when I pay for the first date, is that SHE starts paying for almost everything after that. It may be the type of girls I end up attracting, but they always enjoy "pampering / spoiling" me.

    And who am I to argue with them?


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  9. #9
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    This is what I usually do:

    I will grab the bill and say, "You know I think I will cover the bill today. You cover the tip.... or we can switch and I'll cover the tip (give her a wink)".

    Girls will laugh and choose to cover the tip most of the time and some will offer to pay the bill while you cover the tip. This is an easy way to come across as Alpha while getting her to invest. Whatever option she picks then you say you will just reverse it the next time. Easy way to schedule a second date and save yourself a minimum of 20%.

    One exception, I did have a girl who is a pharmacist tell me that she will cover the bill and the tip. I told her that I will do the same on the next date. Again, you have a second date commitment. We still hookup about once a month. She brings booze to my place every time she shows up.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What Are Your Opinions on Who Pays?

    Honestly, it doesn't matter who pays. Obviously it's better if you go dutch, or she pays because it gets her invested, but she should already be invested to begin with if you run proper game, and you're a sly fox hehe.

    It's all about how much you got her invested to begin with and you're frame.

    If you barely know her and you're trying to take her to a steak dinner, then yeah, it's best to make it clear you guys are going dutch. That's just stupid to pay for her if you don't even know her.

    Me personally, every "date" I go on with a girl, is either FREE, or less than $5. I pay for it. Who cares if it's just $5-10 total for the date. You're going to look stupid making her pay, or going dutch on that little amount of money. I've done little ice cream dates where i made the girl pay, and it was just bad to recover from.

    Anything more than $20-30 bucks, unless you've already fucked her, you tell her up front that you're going dutch on.

    OR

    You do what Dave XXX said, and make her get the tip. I love that advice for dinner dates.


    But I don't take girls on dates to begin with unless we've fucked.

    "Hangouts"/meet ups are the better choice.


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