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Thread: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

  1. #1
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Post RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    I’m not asking for help, just decided I was going to post a story here.

    I’ve been in the game for a while, less active on the forums the last few years, but I still lead a lot of events in the Minneapolis lair here. Love it.

    I’m going to summarize as much as I can. Oh, and I say “finally” because this doesn’t really happen to me. I mean girls flake on me all the time, but if I get to a second date, I know what I’m doing well enough that I’ve never been pushed to FZ, only if I want to FZ them.

    Broke up with my gf of 1.5 years in July. It was a messy breakup.

    Meet new girl in August. Went on maybe 3 dates. It was great, she’s a Veterinarian, mad hot, very high value. Learn she’s only had 2 boyfriends, and those are the only people she’s ever slept with. Didn’t tell her my number because its much much higher. So third date sexual Tension was at its peak and I could have slept with her, she even asked me later why I didn’t.

    Real reason – she was leaving that week to Cali for 2 weeks, and I didn’t want to use her and knew I had to have the MLTR talk first, and figured it would be best to do that when she got back. I’ve been on other dates and had 2 other girls I was sleeping with over the next few weeks anyway. And I wasn’t ready for a super commitment, but if I had to choose one, like I said she’s got a ton of value, least dramatic girl I’ve ever dated.

    So, she leaves. I get a text after a week that she got back together with her ex kinda and doesn’t know where she’s at.

    fark. I’m not mad or upset, disappointed, but I understand. She’s 26 and has only had 2 relationships and I 100% understand where her head is at, and why she got back with him (he lives in Cali as well, but was not the purpose of her trip at all, she wasn’t going to see him but ended up seeing him out there).
    I’m actually kinda relieved. See I know that this is not going to work for her, I know this is a mistake, but it’s a mistake she has to make and learn herself. I actually figure this may work out, maybe it blows up in 3 months, and maybe at that time after playing around single again maybe I’ll be ready for something more, because this chick is great.

    So, RB thinks strategy to self – well, let’s at least keep in occasional contact so that in a few months the long fuse is still simmering and can be re-lite. So I do that, after she gets back, mid-late September we hit the dog park once and chill. Just once, didn’t wanna be super friend-like, but she loved my dog, good chance to connect once, etc. Going good.

    Supposed to go do something last Saturday, loose plans. I cancel because Friday night I brought a couger back and was up till who the hell knows when, and im mad hung over. No biggie.

    Sunday (okay at this point its been a month after she got back with her ex), I get a text from her
    “Would you have sex with me purely to get back at my ex?”
    LMAO…. Sigh. TLDR – basically, it blew up, he already was sleeping with other people. But I know how her mind works. She’s down, depressed, been very clear about that, and I’m pretty sure even if I attempted to pursue it she’d end up backing out, or at best it would make her more emotionally conflicted. Remember, 2 boyfriends so far in her life. I tell her she can swing by the next evening for a movie just as a distraction.

    So now we are at Monday, she does, we cuddle on the couch but that’s it. It’s all good.

    Now I’m torn between Sunday to Wedensday, because she’s telling me things about him, and I know how breakups work, I know what was going through his head and going through her head now, and I can explain everything to her – BUT I cant play the role of – yea you can come cry on my shoulder over ex (because that’s automatic friend zone). But I do give her some advice, simple stuff on why people do these things. It seems to help.

    Wednesday she comes over for another movie (we previously started the Bourne series and had to finish the third, duh). The rest of the story and thought process is all Wednesday:

    Now I know, she’s caught up on ex. I get it, I don’t mind, I have 2 other girls I’m dating anyway. But I like this girl, so maybe we make minor progress.

    I’m rubbing her back, which she loves. She lets me have my hand up the back of her shirt, no resistance. Even lays down so I can rub everything. I understand whats going through her head, at least I think so. She likes the attention, the distraction, she maybe wants more to happen but cant pursue it herself – the whole, “plausible deniability”. I get it.

    So I’m rubbing her back, arms, intertwining fingers. I kiss her neck, all accepted with no resistance, turn her head for a kiss… REJECTED

    HB: “I’m only going to be thinking about him”
    RB: “I don’t care, just kiss me”

    More dialogue, didn’t go anywhere. She’s happy to keep getting massages, keep cuddling, but I could not break that barrier. I told her I'm going to try to kiss her again, and she said "I know, but I know you will stop when I say no, and if you don't I'll probably stop coming over." She even mentioned at one point previously “there’s no way we would have worked out anyway.” She’s probably right, but that’s never a reason not to see.

    Oh well, she was a bad kisser anyway lol. But she’s still texting me yesterday and today. Will monitor where this plays out the next few months.

    Meanwhile, I have a new date tonight and a different girl I like tomorrow (not as much as I liked this one tho).

    Hope you guys enjoyed my story, I’ll try to post more

    - RB
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  2. #2
    meteora's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    More dialogue, didn’t go anywhere. She’s happy to keep getting massages, keep cuddling, but I could not break that barrier. I told her I'm going to try to kiss her again, and she said "I know, but I know you will stop when I say no, and if you don't I'll probably stop coming over." She even mentioned at one point previously “there’s no way we would have worked out anyway.” She’s probably right, but that’s never a reason not to see.
    yeah.. girls like her suck. it seems to me like she is loaded down with emotional baggage.


    So third date sexual Tension was at its peak and I could have slept with her, she even asked me later why I didn’t.
    oftentimes if a woman thinks you should have gone for it but didn't, she will rationalize that it was due to a lack of sexual confidence. (as she certainly won't take the blame herself because she has to protect her ego)

    this is a learning lesson for all the newbies out there, if you ratchet the sexual tension up you should always go for it. because that is what the woman thinks you're trying to do. the act of not following through will almost always convey a lack of self confidence.


    btw rb, I have to congratulate you for successfully dating multiple women, its not something I've really ever managed to accomplish....

  3. #3
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    [QUOTE=meteora;126263]
    oftentimes if a woman thinks you should have gone for it but didn't, she will rationalize that it was due to a lack of sexual confidence. (as she certainly won't take the blame herself because she has to protect her ego)

    QUOTE]


    Yea this is generally true unless you do it right. David De-angelo has some great stuff on the whole, 2 steps forward one step back, read it a while ago.

    But basically, we were there on the floor and I kinda shook my head and backed up and said something like "we can't." Anything where you flip the script, or blame her for escalating puts you in control. In that instance, she knew it was my choice.

    And yea she is currently loaded with baggage, but this is a temporary thing. I mean it was just Sunday that she got her heart torn again. I didn't expect her to be over it, but I had to go for a kiss again, lest I accept the friend zone fate for eternity. Overall tho, she has the least baggage and least vices of anyone I've ever dated.
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  4. #4
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    Quote Originally Posted by The Red Baron View Post
    Now I’m torn between Sunday to Wedensday, because she’s telling me things about him, and I know how breakups work, I know what was going through his head and going through her head now, and I can explain everything to her – BUT I cant play the role of – yea you can come cry on my shoulder over ex (because that’s automatic friend zone). But I do give her some advice, simple stuff on why people do these things. It seems to help.
    Actually, being FZ is not that bad. I've found that with a strong frame and plausible deniability, it is possible to reach a state of "Friendzoned with benefits" which is quite funny and interesting.

    Anyway, I mainly wanted to say respect for being responsible. You could have used your Game to mess her up and get what you wanted, but you decided to use it in a good way. Light side of the Game, mad approve.
    'The Game is what gives a PUA his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the world together.'

  5. #5
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    Before anything else, so much respect for your actions through this. It's not hard to imagine what any lesser man would have done.

    Now for commentary.

    More dialogue, didn’t go anywhere. She’s happy to keep getting massages, keep cuddling, but I could not break that barrier. I told her I'm going to try to kiss her again, and she said "I know, but I know you will stop when I say no, and if you don't I'll probably stop coming over." She even mentioned at one point previously “there’s no way we would have worked out anyway.” She’s probably right, but that’s never a reason not to see.

    Meteora adds: yeah.. girls like her suck. it seems to me like she is loaded down with emotional baggage.

    Careful here. I can agree in part that girls like her suck, but not by this quote that you pulled. Women don't suck for not putting out, nor for having standards and sticking up for themselves. Women don't even suck for being bitches. Not putting out, having standards, sticking up for yourself, and being a "bitch" are qualities of high value women. The opposite describes easy women, which by its inverse you would describe as a quality woman. Easy women aren't quality. There's nothing hot about a girl that will allow any guy with half an ounce of game to sleep with her.

    Oftentimes if a woman thinks you should have gone for it but didn't, she will rationalize that it was due to a lack of sexual confidence. (as she certainly won't take the blame herself because she has to protect her ego)

    this is a learning lesson for all the newbies out there, if you ratchet the sexual Tension up you should always go for it. because that is what the woman thinks you're trying to do. the act of not following through will almost always convey a lack of self confidence.


    This is a fair way to think if your only goal is to sleep with women and add more points to the scoreboard.

    I can recall numerous times where I got to "the end" of the seduction process and simply dropped out. I'd taken her back to my place, she's waiting on my bed, and instead of going for it, I took her back home or asked her to leave. Does that show incompetence or a lack of sexual confidence on my part? Or does it show me as a selector, and after the whole thing is done, I've decided that she doesn't have enough value for me to follow through.

    Tell me that, after an event so obviously degrading to her ego, she would still choose to blame me for a lack of sexual confidence. Just because they don't say it out loud or because they say something different to their friends doesn't mean they aren't aware of the truth: She wasn't worth it.

    Your masculinity and integrity isn't points on a scoreboard. I've said before that I don't know my number, and I can promise you that quite a few guys have slept with more women than me on this forum, but I can tell you their names and show you their faces and I wouldn't have to be drunk or put a paper bag over their head to get it up. They were quality girls. That's the lesson we should be teaching newbies.

    Back to RB,

    And yea she is currently loaded with baggage, but this is a temporary thing.

    I think this depends on how you define baggage. Sure, she definitely does have temporary baggage that will go away. Absolutely I agree with that. There's also baggage that most of us never see as baggage because it's just how we grew up and continue to live. With the limited information provided by this post I would label her slightly less than a "good girl". She's probably overall a decent person but the fact is her sense of worth allowed her to get into a situation where she dated a guy willing to cheat on her. She also had the tenacity to ask you to sleep with her for revenge. That doesn't exactly scream high value.

    I don't say all of that to be an unnecessary jerk and knock your choice in women. I say it because I know you're a genuinely good guy and deserve better.




    Overall, I don't see you as a guy in the friendzone. All I see is a girl who doesn't know what she wants and a guy who's wiling to put up with it.
    Wondering where I am now? Check out my latest project:


  6. #6
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    At the end of the day, what matters the most is you feeling comfortable and happy with yourself.

  7. #7
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    Small updates and clarifications

    So, first I very much appreciate the feedback from everyone. Always love the forums.

    She's still gone for the week here, but she was texting me a lot Saturday. Nothing I pushed for but she was kinda volunteering a lot of info.

    Saturday she basically said she wasn't interested per say in long term and didn't want me to fall for her. She said that she wasn't expecting to see her ex in Cali when she went but she had kinda been hoping for it. She also said - she could even see herself having sex with me and maybe being fuck buddies if she wasn't worried about me falling for her. That kinda caught me off guard.

    Now - about the ex, she actually agreed to an "open relationship" with him at the time where they would be together again but could see other people. Now clearly she hoped he wouldn't and was kinda just holding on to their relationship hoping it would work (which it inevitably wouldn't), but really she wasn't prepared for what she signed up for and as soon as it materialized it blew up in her face. So yea. He didn't cheat on her per say, but she made a stupid mistake, one that a lot of us have made before, myself included.


    There were a few things in Saturdays texting that kinda frustrated me, so I let it trail off. Then I re-initiated today with other random stuff to bring it back to a happy normal flirty tone, which she picked right up. And she volunteered that she was open the day of our Halloween party coming up and planned to attend. (And as I type she just responded to a picture of the drapes I put up (random I know but it was a big deal to me lol)).

    Anyway - my expectations are that she needs at least this week and maybe a few days more to clear her head before I can pursue any physical relationship with her. Not sure yet if I expect it to work or not. I mean I'd be completely happy to be F buddies with her, that would be perfect. In all reality I would expect her mind to start to shift once we become physically intimate, girls are really bad about separating emotions from sex. But whether or not it does I'll play it either way.

    Don't need replies, just posting for updates.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    Wow RB, Cody, Meteora all on the same thread? Have I been transported back to 2012??? All we need is Autismus, TMal, Xavier and Tyrone1991 to check in lol!

    I also had similar thing RB. The fact that she said you will fall for HER is your cue to exit. She knows you will get clingy on her (not saying you will but she thinks it). Unless you addressed her reframing, you are behind the eight ball man. Your the one who taught me that when I had issues with a similar, flighty girl way back.

    Tough love and all but I have to for my PUA buds.

    A moment of silence also for RB being friendzoned.

    My world is crumbling! There is no God!
    Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Oftentimes if a woman thinks you should have gone for it but didn't, she will rationalize that it was due to a lack of sexual confidence. (as she certainly won't take the blame herself because she has to protect her ego)

    this is a learning lesson for all the newbies out there, if you ratchet the sexual Tension up you should always go for it. because that is what the woman thinks you're trying to do. the act of not following through will almost always convey a lack of self confidence.

    This is a fair way to think if your only goal is to sleep with women and add more points to the scoreboard.

    I can recall numerous times where I got to "the end" of the seduction process and simply dropped out. I'd taken her back to my place, she's waiting on my bed, and instead of going for it, I took her back home or asked her to leave. Does that show incompetence or a lack of sexual confidence on my part? Or does it show me as a selector, and after the whole thing is done, I've decided that she doesn't have enough value for me to follow through.

    Tell me that, after an event so obviously degrading to her ego, she would still choose to blame me for a lack of sexual confidence. Just because they don't say it out loud or because they say something different to their friends doesn't mean they aren't aware of the truth: She wasn't worth it.

    Your masculinity and integrity isn't points on a scoreboard. I've said before that I don't know my number, and I can promise you that quite a few guys have slept with more women than me on this forum, but I can tell you their names and show you their faces and I wouldn't have to be drunk or put a paper bag over their head to get it up. They were quality girls. That's the lesson we should be teaching newbies.
    I have to disagree with this. If you decide she's not worth it that's one thing, but if you have the opportunity and you don't take it that's not taking responsibility. It's like NOT going for the kiss during the first or second date. After the second date you're nexted. It's the same way with sex. If she wants it and you don't give it to her you're not being responsible and she will lose interest. The only way you can overcome this is if you frame it appropriately like "I'm not sleeping with you. I don't know you well enough and when I do know you better I might not want to sleep with you".

    I also cringe at the term "good girl". There really is no such thing based on society's definition. It's awesome when a girl is selective and stands up for herself, but she still REALLY enjoys sex and will sleep with a guy she just meets, even if she believes otherwise. It's nice to believe there's such a thing, but my experiences scream otherwise. If you're good enough at seduction the sky's the limit, and limiting beliefs like "good girls" will destroy your success. I believe a "good girl" is a good person. Her sexual history holds no importance for me.

    Regardless, if you did what YOU thought was right RB then you did the right thing. Always do what you want, and if that's the case, bravo!

    I'm from Minneapolis as well. It's nice to see other people on here from the same city! Cheers!

  10. #10
    The Red Baron's Avatar
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    Default Re: RB - So I've finally been friend zoned

    Blast from the past aye lockdown?

    I'm standing on the razer's edge here between friend zone and fuck buddy. I'm still giving it a shot, but ultimately I'm not emotionally caught up in it. Got a lot of new numbers and prospects at the zombie pub crawl last weekend, not to mention the few girls I already have in the rotation. So it's nothing like one-it is, but I'm still playing it out.

    Direct - I tend to agree with Cody more or less. In this case it wasn't a question of sexual confidence, and it got heated enough that it was clear to her, it was a conscious decision to say no. And I know Cody and how he can hold a frame, him saying no is certainly showing selection and not insecurity.

    In any event, I haven't seen her again yet but she's going to come over Friday and have a bonfire, and some drinks. Oh, and this girl NEVER flakes.

    She's very clearly unsure if she wants to put me in friend zone or fuck buddy. To be honest I'm not sure which position I want either. She's a pretty reliable friend, so maybe that's the choice I'll make?

    Examples (she was home in Chicago over the past week), she's coming to this big Halloween party I'm having:

    RB: (Sends picture of my dog in a cop costume, funny comment about the costume) "You got yours ready yet?"

    HB: I was thinking of just doing a sexy kitten

    RB: Oohh I better get a private demo

    HB: "Lol if you get me drunk enough maybe you'll get a private viewing later ;-)"

    (She has also encouraged drinking saying it lowers her inhibitions, I said I don't want her just making a drunk decision, and she said being drunk doesn't make her stupid just lowers her walls)

    So, these are the positive notes toward F buddies.

    Then on other conversations she'll pry into if i'm going on dates. And she's said she asks because I'm a great guy and she hopes I find a girlfriend. At least in that piece I was able to clarify that I'm much happier just dating and don't want anything exclusive - which apparently was not the impression she got when we started dating which was all August at this point. She's also asked me things like how to break it to a guy that she went on a date with and doesn't want to see anymore.

    For the most part I ignore that stuff or tease her about it. But its clear suggestions for the friend zone.

    Summary -

    Not sure where it will land, but I'm having fun with it, even if only for practice again. But she doesn't have my emotions on a leash or anything, got more than enough going on outside of it, just pursuing the possibility of a F buddy scenario
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