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  1. #1
    gray matter is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Escaping the walls of an AFC...

    I would never call myself a PUA. I never sat down working on routines, thinking of clever openers or a really good story to dhv a beautiful girl. I mean how could i, what with school, working, and wasting the rest of my time...who has time to learn to be a PUA. On the other hand i also would have never considered myself an AFC either. Not to say that i am always successful with closing, or that i know what to say to make me desirable. To be honest im not unsuccessful with girls, so because of that i felt like i was doing ok...Until last night.

    I was out in the city with this girl who i work with, and let me tell you the vibes were and are there. They have been since we started working together. This girl has been trying to hang out with me and we finally got to. She was psyched, i was psyched, and things were going great. We were laughing, having fun, just sincerely enjoying each others company...But nothing came out of it. Now dont get me wrong, i am happy about last night and really did enjoy myself, but what im not happy about is how i wasn't able to close the deal. I should have been able to make something happen; a kiss, a lot of touching, holding hands even...I can honestly say that last night when i got home, sat in my bed and contemplated whether to sleep or finish myself off, i felt like the true and purest form of an AFC...

    WHich brings me here today. Like most of you i discovered the world of PUA through Neil Strauss' "The Game". I read it two years ago and was completely taken back by this whole other world in which i was completely unaware of. I caught onto many of the phrases, openers and routines Neil used through out the book and completely understood the logic between it all. I mean it all made complete sense to me. However i never really sought out the skills to learn this art or really try to hone in on what little bit of game i can use on a beautiful girl. I just thought i can take what i have read, try to use some of it and just sort of figure it out along the way. Never once did i honestly work out routines, or openers, or anything of the sort. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not unsuccessful with girls by any means, but i realized recently that i want to be able to make things work out in my favor with the skills i can learn from all of you to attain the girls i desire.

    I very much look forward to being a part of this forum, and learning as much as i can from everyone that is willing to share. And although the skills i have in PUA is beyond minimal, i am psyched just to be here and will help out with as much as i can with whomever needs it.

    -Gray Matter

  2. #2
    The Red Baron's Avatar
    The Red Baron is offline PUA All Star
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    Default Re: Escaping the walls of an AFC...

    Glad to have you Gray, and nice work putting up a very honest post. Almost all of us have been just as frustrated at one point or another. We're all here to support each other. Good luck and keep posting
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



  3. #3
    Steez is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Escaping the walls of an AFC...

    I think you should try looking more into developing your physical progression skills & escalation. You seem good on the emotional side, but you have to continue to push boundaries and get out of a comfort zone. I like to think of any comfort zone you stay in for too long becomes a friend zone; don't share your feelings or personal issues until you can match them with an equivalent intensity physical progression.

    Keep emotions light if Kino is light, and as one gets heavier, push the other. That's the rule I use at least.

  4. #4
    gray matter is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Escaping the walls of an AFC...

    Thanks a lot Red Baron, i really appreciate your words. Steez you are definitely right my friend. I am definitely still in the friend zone and tip-toing around the Kino...How did you break out of your comfort zone?

  5. #5
    Steez is offline PUA in Training
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    Default Re: Escaping the walls of an AFC...

    My own overall comfort zone, or my comfort zone with a girl? In your case, I think you should continue to build rapport and progress on an emotional level, but while you do that, progress physically too. That's what I mean breaking out of a rut in comfort; pushing the relationship further and further, causing her to feel feelings that match the physical Tension.

    I don't know if we're allowed to copy and paste content from books here, so if not I will delete my post when I'm warned... But this is from Magic Bullets by Savoy.

    2 types of touching:

    Social touching, during which you should not really be doing anything differently with the
    woman you are interested in than with the rest of the group. Even if you are alone with her,
    the frame for your touching should be social as opposed to romantic or sexual.

    Personal touching, in which you are using touching to reinforce or lead the emotional
    connection you are developing with her. Increasing physical intimacy in this way builds comfort
    and arousal.


    Social touching only includes touching in ways that would be acceptable in a non-romantic context. For
    example, you can touch someone’s arm or shoulder to emphasize a point. You can pat someone on the
    upper back to congratulate them. Stay away from other areas.
    Some general rules:
    Start early. It can feel awkward and forced if you start touching someone once you’ve already
    been interacting with her for 20 minutes. Start during the opener if you can.
    Touch everyone in the group. You want to come across as a social person, not as a creepy
    seducer. Don’t touch the woman you’re interested in any differently than you would other strangers.
    Touch the men too. Studies have shown that people feel better about the people they are talking with
    if they are occasionally being touched as part of the conversation.
    Physical progression should be consistent with emotional progression. If you are in Qualification,
    you can use touch to express approval (or to release that approval). In Attraction, your touch
    should generally be high-energy and interactive, like if you challenge a woman to a game of thumbwrestling.
    Test her. Women often give off confusing or mixed signals verbally, but very few “lie” with touching.
    For example, if you tell a woman to put her hands out (so you can show her something) you can get a
    clue as to her feelings toward you by what she does. If she puts her hands palms up, it’s an indication
    that she might be attracted to you. If she puts them palms down, she might not be, yet. Similarly, if
    you give a woman a “high five”, check to see if she curls her fingers between yours or whether she just
    slaps your hand.
    Create opportunities for social touching. You can make up secret handshakes. You can teach
    her what the lines on her palm mean (be creative, make her laugh). You can touch her at key moments
    in your stories. As you gain experience and comfort with particular stories that you tell, you can also
    anticipate and plan for specific moments when touching fits well with and enhances what you are saying.
    Or you can develop stories or routines that are specifically designed to allow for social touching.
    For example, I tell a (true) story about accidentally making out with my roommate’s sister in college.
    Yes, it’s possible to accidentally make out with someone. No, it’s not something you can teach or plan
    for. At one point in the story, I mention how I felt a hand on me and say “like this” and put her hand
    on my forearm. I continue the story without pausing or drawing attention to what I’m doing. While I
    am telling the rest of the story, I am waiting to see how long it will take her to remove her hand, whether
    she gives my forearm a little squeeze, etc.
    Don’t let other men touch you without responding. Men invading other men’s personal space is
    a sign of dominance. This is very attractive to women. A study last year showed that women are three
    to four times more likely to seek to make eye contact with men (i.e., “approach invitations”, see Chapter
    5) who express this sort of dominance over other men than they do with men who do not.


    Personal touching is more intimate. Generally it should only take place when you are alone with a woman,
    or when the rest of her group is obviously comfortable with the increasingly intimacy between you and her
    and she is not embarrassed.
    Some examples of personal touching include:
    Her hand on your arm
    Her hand on your leg
    Holding hands
    Your arm around her
    Her sitting on your lap.

    Personal touching is where the “progression” really takes place. You want an overall increase in your level
    of physical intimacy with a woman. And it’s you who has to guide this process. You decide when to initiate,
    when to escalate, and when to pull back. The above list contains a simple progression from her hand on
    your arm to her sitting on your lap, but there are many different paths you can take.
    For example, if you are holding hands with her for a while and you get the sense that she is uncomfortable
    and about to pull away, then you should ideally be the one who breaks the physical contact first. This has
    the psychological effect of making you the one who is setting the barriers, not her. This will be an unfamiliar
    but also somewhat comfortable position for many women.
    When you break the physical touching, break it completely. Let’s take an example in which a woman
    is comfortable holding hands with you, but not in having your arm around her. If you sense that she is
    becoming uncomfortable, you should of course be the one to pull back. However, do not only remove
    your arm and pull back to her comfort point, where you are holding hands. Doing so may make her feel
    comfortable again, but she will not necessarily feel a desire to increase the intensity of your physical contact.
    After all, holding hands, in this example, was her desired level of contact at that moment. Cut off the
    physical contact completely, or at least well below her comfort level. Now she will feel the loss of comfort
    from holding your hand, and she may be driven to try to re-initiate and intensify the physical touching.
    You should also establish as much of the touching as possible as if she were the initiator. Putting her hand
    on your arm or your leg is better than putting yours on hers. For one thing, this is far less threatening; she
    still feels in control with the increased escalation because she can remove herself at any moment; whereas
    if it is you touching her, she may worry that she may have to “play defense” against your persistent efforts to
    escalate past her comfort zone. A second reason why this is valuable is because a woman’s psychological
    processes may encourage her to act consistently with her physical behavior. She doesn’t generally sit on a
    man’s lap if she doesn’t like him.
    Doing these things should give her the feeling that she can be as free as she wants to touch you (touching
    feels good after all) without you taking things too far. In fact, seducing you can become a fun and interesting
    challenge for her. Obviously, you will need to go through this a few times before you’re able to recognize
    the feeling of a woman about to pull away.
    At the same time, as you are controlling the duration of touching within a given level of physical intimacy,
    you should be managing the intensity by progressively testing and pushing her boundaries. If she is comfortable
    holding hands, put her on your lap. If she’s comfortable on your lap, bite her neck. Find out where
    her resistance point is and periodically test to see if you can move past it. Often you will be able to for only
    a few seconds – in those situations, apply the techniques above to cut the escalation off on your terms.
    A caveat: this might feel awkward at first. Most men are not used to the idea of putting a woman on their
    lap and then pushing her off a few seconds later and playfully telling her to stop trying to seduce him. This
    doesn’t make sense to many men, but it works with women.
    Escalating physical touching works best if you aren’t drawing attention to what you are doing. Don’t ever
    talk about it. In fact, escalation is easier if there is something going on to distract her. While either of you
    are on the telephone, look at this as an opportunity to playfully increase the intensity of your touching.
    You’ll likely have to pull back, certainly after the telephone call is over, but by breaking into that territory
    for a while, you will increase your chances of accessing it again in the future.
    Make your touch exciting so she is curious about what more intense touching would feel like. Touching
    should rarely be static. If you have your arm around her, use your hand to touch, rub, or play with her neck
    or shoulders. If you’re holding her hand, don’t be limp and clammy – run your fingers lightly over her palm
    or the back of her hand.
    Last edited by Steez; 07-30-2012 at 05:10 PM. Reason: bolding

  6. #6
    gray matter is offline Aspiring PUA
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    Default Re: Escaping the walls of an AFC...

    I apologize for the delayed response, i have been gone for the past week and havent been able to respond to this. Steez thanks a lot man! That is very informative and makes a lot of sense. I have copied that excerpt from Savoy and am going to read through it to try and internalize everything.


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