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Thread: RB - After the Phone Number (Basic Text Game and First Dates)

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    Thumbs up RB - After the Phone Number (Basic Text Game and First Dates)

    Hey everyone!!

    For those of you who don't know, I've been working on a book for a little while. I just finished (like 10 minutes ago) pulling together my first draft of a chapter I think you'd all find useful, so here it is for you all.

    A few notes - there are references to other parts of the book which are not included here, and since it's not finalized yet they are discussed as "chapter xxx", don't worry about that stuff.

    My book is on principally on how to be confident, high value, and engaging.

    Let me know what you think of the chapter, and if there are any questions it doesn't cover, please ask so I may fix it to address them. Enjoy!




    After the Phone Number (Basic Text Game and First Dates)


    You’re stoked! You got a phone number last night. You wake up in the morning happy and excited, you give her a call but she doesn’t answer. You call back in the evening, still no answer. What happened? I Thought she liked me, everything seemed so good!

    In this chapter I’m going to explain what went wrong and how to do it right. I’ll give you the basics of proper text game and tell you how to follow up to get to your first date. Follow my advice and a lot more of those numbers will turn in to a real date with a live girl. Before that however, I want to talk about why we can’t just call right away.

    Why we have rules

    There is a reason we have to play the game. Fact is, most of us don’t like it, most of us wish we could just call someone and tell them how interested we are, how much we like them, and how excited we are to see them. Hopefully I’ve shown you in section one that many of these rules exist to portray value appropriately. When you ask a girl out it’s no different.

    When you meet a girl and get a phone number, you’re not the only number she has or the only person interested in seeing her. Let’s assume she has 5 guys asking her out. If you ask her out immediately, you display neediness. If you’re high value and selective- for example if you had 5 girls asking you out, you wouldn’t just tell her you loved her, you’d play the game and see how much value she had first.

    When you first meet someone, you don’t know everything. Most numbers and encounters don’t lead to long term relationships, so at the beginning you’re both still figuring out how interesting, compatible, and high value the other person is. Girls play these games with us naturally. Some will admit it, some won’t, but several girls who understood game have told me that guys who text too often or send boring texts (etc.) appear uninteresting to them. That’s why we have to play the game whether we like it or not. So let’s continue in to how to manifest that when you’re maneuvering to the first date.

    Call or text?

    Most of the top game material I’ve read suggests you should always call. It’s more personal than a text and displays a little more confidence. That’s true, but I love text, you get to think through what to say and send some easy playful responses. Also in 2013 now everyone texts their friends throughout the day, they have their phone on them and are accustomed to getting texts. So I text 99% of the time unless it’s a time sensitive issue.

    If you prefer to call you can but it’s not my area of expertise. So I’m going to cover the basic guidelines of how to get to the first date, and later some general texting principles.

    What to do right after you get the number
    The traditional rule for contact after a phone number is to wait 2-3 days. It’s not a bad rule, but it needs to be modified.

    After she puts your number in her phone save it, then wait. Don’t call her right there unless she asks. Wait anywhere between 1-3 hours later (depending on the time / how you got the number) and send her a message, simply with your name “RB.” Now she has your name and her number in the phone, so when you call later, she knows who you are. If you sent it immediately she would know who you were but it wouldn’t have any particular effect for her to remember you. By doing this 1-3 hours later you’ve given her a few hours to think about the encounter a bit and you’ll bring her back to thinking about it again briefly. This helps solidify the interest she had in you to begin with, without the pitfalls of calling the next day. It’s just your name for now.

    After that, you then wait the traditional 2-3 days and send her something. If you gave her a nickname it’s best to open with something funny about that. (Lets say you nicknamed her klutz) -“Hey klutz I just spilled my water all over myself and it made me think of you.” This is so much more interesting than “Hey how are you?” – Which we’ll discuss more in the next section. Alternatively, if you took a picture with her you could text her that “OMG I just saw this picture what the heck we were doing??” If you still don’t know what to say, I’ll give you some ideas for where to turn in the next section, but when you open it has to be playful, fun, and interesting.

    After that you generally need to build a little rapport before you ask her on a date. Remember, she only met you once and isn’t sure you’re not a creeper just yet. Most of the guidelines on interesting conversation we covered in chapter **** can be applied to text game as well. You can ask her something like, “so I realized I don’t really know you at all, tell me…. What’s the most adventurous thing you’ve ever done?” Here you’re showing that you’re trying to see if she’s valuable and interesting – that is, you are demonstrating that you are selective, but doing it through interesting texts. Again, this will compel a much better discussion than –
    (You) “Hi, how are you?”
    (Her) “ Good, how are you?”
    (You) “Today’s going nice just working….”
    Just as we covered in section 1, teasing her is also always a fun playful option. If you sent a picture you could send a tease with it - “Okay I just saw 3 random pictures and I swear you’re trying to close your eyes in them.” There are lots of places you can take this. With a lot of texting you can build rapport in a day, but for most people this will take 2-3 days of some fun texting before you ask her on a date. If you do it without building any rapport, you are very likely to get ignored or excuses, and at that point she’s pretty much made up her mind that she’s not going to see you.

    Once you’ve built up a little rapport you can ask for a date. When you ask, set a date roughly 2-3 days away. Don’t give her too many options or you’ll show that you’re always available to her. Especially in early dating, “always available” gives the impression of fewer friends, less interesting things going on, and therefore lower value. So you might send something like “Hey I’m free Thursday evening or Sunday afternoon, we should def check out this mini-golf place I heard about!”

    We’ll discuss some guidelines for making the actual date interesting and successful shortly, but before that I want to cover some general text guidelines that go beyond just getting to the first date.

    Basics of text Game

    So in the previous section we already explained how the general conversational rules still apply to texting. When you’re building interest and rapport you need to be fun, interesting, and playful. In this section we’ll cover a few miscellaneous items, but focus on two particular topics, one – options for text openers (the first text you send to start a new conversation with someone, not just the first text), and two – timing of your texts and responses.

    Text openers -

    Okay, so let’s start with the most common mistake guys make. We send a “Hi, how are you?” text and expect the girl to be just as excited to respond. When you text you need to make it interesting.

    If something funny happens or you see something cool, you can always open with that. “WTF I just walked by an Elvis Pressley impersonator on the street begging for change.” Telling her about interesting things like this lets her laugh about it and ask where you are / saw that. This builds an interesting conversation and easily leads in to a more playful discussion of the days events, and when she asks you can “dhv” properly (as discussed in chapter xxx) when you later respond and tell her the interesting things you were doing (after she asks).

    Let’s cover some other text openers -

    Several of the “opinion” openers we covered in chapter 1 work really well as additional text openers later – “You HAVE to settle a dispute here, who would win in a fight? A taco or a ham sandwich?” Refer back to chapter one for the others.

    Any type of a tease referring back to a prior discussion with her, IE she said she does yoga 5 days a week– “Hey dork. So did you actually make it through yoga class or collapse on the floor today?”

    You can open by saying you thought you saw her twin – “I swear I just saw your twin, you’re not at (Six Flags / XX Mall) are you??” With this type of text you’re showing her that you’re out doing something interesting, but as we discussed in XXX on DHV, it comes across as an afterthought to the intent of the text.

    If you’re looking for more openers, the Venusian Arts group put out a wonderful free app called the Venusian Arts Phone Game Companion, it’s in the app store under “PGC” and has many playful openers I’ve used before. For now I’m going to move on to the principles behind when and how often to respond.

    Timing of your texts -

    This is another important question many people have – how long should I wait to respond? In general, wait to respond an equal amount of time as she took to text you back. While this rule is somewhat “safe,” I want to discuss the core concept we’re trying to get at.

    We want to give the impression that you still want to talk to her (that you’re not spacing out your texts intentionally), but that you’re a busy man with other things going on. Always responding immediately suggests that you’re not doing anything but waiting around for her to text. If she thinks you’re busy and have a lot going on, this creates interest and makes her wonder what you’re up to, this gives you value and makes her think about you more, increasing her desire to see you again.

    To do this properly we need some element of inconsistency. Don’t wait a fixed amount of time between every response, and don’t wait two hours between every one either. For example, you send text 1, she sends text 2 after an hour, you send text 3 after two hours, she sends text 4 after an hour, then you respond with text 5 after 5 minutes. She responds in 10, you respond in 2 minutes. Maybe you were out with your friends and just got back in, the pattern above would be a logical timing for a person who’s busy but still wants to talk to the other person.

    Final item in regards to timing, don’t apologize for the delay. This is relatively simple. If you open every text with “Sorry for the delay I was xxx,” you’re saying the delay is not natural and she should expect immediate texts from you. Until she’s you’re long term girlfriend, she shouldn’t. You’re a busy man with better things to do.

    Miscellaneous text guidelines

    If she sends you multiple texts in a row, this is a good sign of interest. But you don’t have to respond to all 3 questions, you can ignore them and just answer the one you want. Answering everything and sending a mass text back shows you’re very interested in her, again that’s bad at the early stages because it appears lower value.

    Don’t send too much at once. When it comes to texts, shorter is better. You don’t want to send an essay every time, just like above you can choose to answer only the interesting questions. As a general rule, 2-3 sentences, and it shouldn’t span more than 1 text (that is, if your phone has to break it in to 2-3 parts, it’s too much).

    You can ignore texts once in a while. You don’t want to ignore 50% of what she sends you, but just like creating some inconsistency, ignoring a random boring text here and there is completely acceptable. Maybe you were too busy and forgot about it later. That’s completely acceptable and nothing you need to apologize about.

    Avoid excessive use of smileys, use sparingly, and preferably only when you’re intention is not already clear. For example if it’s obvious to her it’s a joke, don’t use the tongue smiley :-P. People tend to over use them, and using them unnecessarily dampens their effect. If every text you send has a J, then how does she know when you’re really smiling?

    These are simply guidelines to point you in the right direction with when / how to text someone. If you’re looking for more I’d like to recommend (******** *********)

    Short text conclusion

    A lot of this seems too calculated, and at first it has to be to give the right impression. In my life however, I found that as I got busier and more active, and had more and more girls’ texting me, I did this stuff naturally without trying to. For example when you’re at work and get several texts from different people simultaneously, sometimes you can’t stop and respond right away. I would respond later when I had time. Later in the evening then, sometimes I would have a more back and forth conversation with a girl, or sometimes I’d be out and not respond until later. Yes I got the text, but I wasn’t ignoring them, they just were not my top priority to address. As you become more confident, more sociable, and higher value, you will find yourself doing the same things.

    Now let’s move on to the real goal of all our initial texting – getting your first date.

    Your first date

    When you plan your first date, you want to make it something interesting and different, and be at a neutral venue. If you haven’t spent that much time with someone, inviting them to your house is a pretty scary prospect, so meet somewhere they won’t be nervous about.

    On your first date, you absolutely want to avoid the traditional dinner and a movie. You don’t know each other yet, you don’t know how much rapport you’ll have or how well the night will go. If you’re sitting at dinner you risk running in to that awkward silence with another half an hour to go and nothing to break it.

    I always recommend some type of activity date. Inviting her to play Mini Golf is common, but one of the safest options. Inviting her on an activity date shows you want to get out and do interesting things. More importantly it gives you very easy opportunities to tease each other and build playful rapport. While you’re Mini Golfing you can easily tease her about how she’s going to miss a shot, or make playful little challenges, things you cannot very easily do when you’re sitting at dinner. You also both have a distraction, reasonable pauses and other things to talk about that make the chance of any awkward silence very small.

    Alternatively you could go bicycling / rollerblading, check out an art museum, go bowling, any simple but common activity to do is a great option.

    Now you also want to plan a “part 2” of the date that you don’t tell them about, generally something where you can talk more if the first part went well. Going for coffee or drinks after the first part is typically the best bet, or maybe a walk to a bar/restaurant on the water or something cool. By having two parts, either one of you could leave after the mini golfing and say you have to be somewhere, but if it’s going well then you can continue the evening and build some more rapport.

    Just going out for drinks is also acceptable if you’re already going with a group of friends. Something like – “Hey my friends and I are going downtown Friday night, you should join us!” This is safe because she will plan to be with her friends too, and if she needs to “escape” she can easily say they’re going to another bar and she has to follow them. Additionally, being out with your friends builds social proof as we covered in chapter XXX, and shows that you’re not canceling other plans to be with her but rather seeing her when it works out.

    Finally, let’s talk about who pays. This is a very difficult topic for most men, because culturally the assumption is that we pay. Almost all veteran PUAs agree however that you should not pay for a girl on the first date. So let’s briefly discuss why. Girls are used to guys attempting to win them over, guys approach and offer to buy them a drink, take them out and buy them dinner, take them to a movie, etc. When you buy her everything, you fall in to the same pool as everyone else. If she was pursuing you, she’d be buying you drinks. By making her pay for her share you’re again showing that she isn’t on a pedestal where you need to pay for her attention.

    It’s important to make this expectation (that she will pay for some of it) up front, within the first few dates. For guys who are struggling with this, start small. For example if you do go out to dinner / drinks, you can buy dinner and say something like “Okay, I got dinner but you owe me the first round.” You’re not asking for much but showing she’s expected to contribute. As different as it sounds, making her pay some portion will set you apart and make you much more interesting and valuable.

    Let me give you a short story –

    I met a girl I was interested in, a solid 9.5 who I would have previously thought was out of my league. I told her I was going downtown with friends and she should join me, she accepted. We met and within 5 minutes she asked me to buy her a shot:

    RB (Laughing) – “Uh uh you are not milking me for drinks already, you first”
    HB – “…. Okay, what would you like?”

    Yes it’s usually that simple. She bought several rounds that night because I made the expectation clear up front. I did later end up splitting the cab fare back even though she offered (chivalry isn’t completely dead).

    Beyond what and when to make your date, you want to follow the same value principles I laid out in section one. Be confident, make your body language strong, use Kino, don’t supplicate, make your conversations interesting, etc. If you pull together the advice I’ve laid out you will have a successful first date and will be able to set up a second one without my guidance.

    Conclusion -

    Remember that not every number means you’ll get a date, however If you follow these guidelines many more of the numbers you get will turn in to successful first dates. Once that’s gone well, you don’t need my help anymore, you understand the principles of being confident and engaging.

    Finally, if you want to date other people meanwhile that’s completely acceptable. I’ll show you exactly how to handle that honestly and confidently in the next chapter.
    Never need praise, sympathy, or approval



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    Default Re: RB - After the Phone Number (Basic Text Game and First Dates)

    Was a damn good read, overall. I just want to add 2 things:

    - "The traditional rule" suggests waiting 2-3 days before opening. I immediately assumed we pulled this number by night game. (I know you mentioned we got the number last night, but I'd still think of night game even if you didn't mention it.)

    Because in night game, interactions usually go further compared to day game. You can shoot the text 2-3 days later and she'll still remember you, the time you had together. However, after a day game n-close, I prefer shooting the opener text in the same day or the next day tops because attraction fades quicker.

    In short, I think "the traditional rule" should be updated if you want to include day game in there.

    - I don't really know if you're gonna expand the texting subject any further in your book, but I wanted to mention a technique I use, a compliance test. I'd like to show inconsistency in the lengths of my texts just like you suggested doing it on timing.

    It's about mimicking, like in body language. You probably know, it's believed that if the person you're talking mimics your body language in some way, he/she is likely to be interested in you, or at least paying attention to the conversation.

    Implementing this to lengths of my texts, if she mimics the lengths of my texts I assume that we're on the same level and she's engaged in the conversation. If I text long and she texts short, I tone it down. If I text short but she texts long, I kick it up a notch and try to match with her energy.

    Of course I'm not saying it works this way all the time. It's just an interesting pattern I encountered in several of my texting interactions. Might be worthy to consider.
    It's not about who I was or who I'm going to become.

    It's about who I am. Do it right here, right now.

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    Default Re: RB - After the Phone Number (Basic Text Game and First Dates)

    Things like the compliance tests are discussed elsewhere in the book, but in by slightly more general way with frame control stuff

    But this definitely helps, and the texting suggestions are good. When I update this chapter I'll incorporate a bit more of that.

    Thanks for your input!
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    Default Re: RB - After the Phone Number (Basic Text Game and First Dates)

    Cool stuff bro (but I expect nothing less from u lol).

    I like the text part... Especially the staggered text response timing thing. Really helps keep her off balance in a good way. Also, I think u need to add that if you are aware of her schedule, u may want to text responses quicker becuase she is avail and relaxed. Like for ex if u work full time and she works part time or flexible hours. It's 3 pm the office is dead and she's home hanging out or grocery shopping... If she is rapid response than take advantage. Don't waste time putting off your texts! Use her relaxed state to qualify, disqualify, attract or show value! People are so busy nowadays that schedules rarely match up perfectly. So use the time you know she's available. (But maybe my example is if you have already been talkin to her a bit. Although it's good if you net a girl at your/her job)

    Oh and smilies... If she uses smilies I take that as a good sign. If I use smilies rarely and she responds with them (especially if she doesnt regularly use them) that's a good sign also
    Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.
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