by the way I appreciate all the advice.
by the way I appreciate all the advice.
Less is more in this situation. I wouldn't say anything about your relationship, and I'd just act casual about the whole situation. The more you say the more emotional investment you show. I know you think that it's the right thing to do and morally required, but trust me, it's not.
I'd be courteous to her. If she wants to talk about stuff indulge her by listening. But just make it clear you need some time to think. Saying things like, "I'm going to have fun," "I'm going to work on myself," "We need this time apart," etc. are all just attempts to instill jealousy and she'll see through them. Just say you want time to think. That's it, that's all.
I wouldn't even bring the credit card up. If she tries to use you for something else and you're not together, make your intentions clear at that point. It's too late to do so with the credit card thing, since the only way to make someone realize your serious is by following through, and you can't follow through with the credit card now.
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."
ok, again i appreciate all the advice. Will just tell her to enjoy her trip and have a merry christmas.
I disagree with the duke on what hes saying.i just came back from fixing one relation.few perils with one itis and giving ultimatum to girls can be really annoying and off in this dynamic.it may be salvaged depending on what you guys were really mad about, whether jealousy etc.
Well, we met up last night. I admit I did get a little AFC and told her it was a shame that I was leaving on a bad note, although I did put the onus on her and her attitude. I had offered to help her study for her English exams today, she said ok, and said she wanted to spend the night but sleep alone in a different room. I was kinda annoyed by that, and told her that if she was coming over with a bad attitude it was better that she didn't, but if she wanted to come over and enjoy some time together then she could sleep where she wanted. I told her I would be available after 7 and that at 830 I was going to watch football if she wanted to come along.
She did come over, she came in for a kiss on the way in, I didn't kiss her back. she definitely picked up on it and tried to engage me on it, I just said I didn't want to kiss. We studied for a bit, which gave me a chance to tease her a bit. We went and had dinner and some drinks while I watched football. Honestly I hardly talked to her, where the tv was I had to turn to the side almost with my back to her. teased her a bit playing like I was going to wipe my bbq sauce on her shirt and generally we kept it very light.
when we got home, we sat on the couch and made out a bit, she was definitely kissing me back passionately. then I stopped and said ok, lets find you your sheets for the other bed. Lent her a shirt and left her in there while I watched a bit more of the game on teh computer in bed. as I by this point expected, she lasted about half and hour, before she comes in saying "I don't want to sleep alone" I just chuckled. she got in bed, I kissed her once then went back to how I was, she said "hold me...." and then we farked.
the more i've thought about it, the more i realize you're right duke, this is all a power thing. the whole I want to sleep alone thing was a big sh!t test. at first I let it affect me, then I just said look sleep where you want but don't come over here with a bad attitude, I'm doing this tonight and I'd like to enjoy some time with you before I leave. I realized that if she chose to sleep in the little guest bed with uncomfortable sheets alone that was her problem. I didn't try to get her in bed with me at all, she was the one who broke. maybe I should have told her to stay in the other room, but I wasn't ready to go that far.
we didn't discuss anything about the relationship, and I think I will leave it that way until I leave Wednesday. She did offer to go with me to the airport, I told her if she wanted, she could. don't know what will happen long term, but I know there's still feelings and attraction there.
You played this well. I wouldn't have offered to help her study for her English exam, but overall, this was well done. You maintained the balance of the power. You were able to show that you could give something on your own terms without expecting anything like sex out of it.
With women, once they realize that sex isn't going to be a bargaining chip, they often cave because they become unsure of what else they have to offer. I'm not saying women don't have anything else to offer, but what I am saying is that they've been conditioned to believe that sex is a bargaining chip that they have control over.
Also, I'm glad you're recognizing that this is all a power struggle. It's sad to say, but in all honesty the relationship between men and women can almost exclusively be framed in terms of a power struggle. But it's kind of a catch 22. Women will fight for more power in a relationship, but when they get it they don't want it. Every woman wants a man who is powerful and capable of protecting her and if you let her have too much power then she will start viewing you as a submissive male. It's one of the reasons men are constantly saying, "I don't understand women." But once you understand that they do this, and once you understand that they do this because they are trying to weed out weak males, the whole thing becomes much easier.
Good luck with the rest of it and keep us updated.
"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."
Well Duke maybe you're right I was going to screw it up and so I'm back haha, well live and learn I guess. I had been doing an ok job being away and having minimal contact with her. We did end on a good note with her going with me to the airport and being very lovey dovey kissing on my neck and even with tears in her eyes when I left. Once I was here we texted here and there little things. I just felt like she never wanted to say much and she never initiated any conversations and my insecurities got the best of me. I told her that it was frustrating for me feeling like she didn't value me and her attitude was one that prevented us from moving forward (and I really think that).
She responded saying that her attitude hadn't changed because she was unsure of things and not willing bet anything on our relationship. That really hurt. Then she said that she was really ambitious and wants a lot of things in her life that I can't give her, that our relationship was nothing but going out, going to dinner, and making love. This all really took me aback, because I brought up looking into getting her a visa (I live in Colombia) and she kind of said she didn't want to talk about that because she was unsure of what she wanted and might move to Venezuela. I really feel like I've at least tried to show I want to move past that point in the relationship. I mean why the heck would I care about communicating with her while I was gone if it was all about just going out and sleeping together.
She told me she loved me, but she had felt at peace with me gone and that she wasn't sure if we were meant to be together at some point but that she didn't think that moment was now.
The whole thing has been really frustrating and confusing for me and I guess I'm realizing that there's not all that much I can really do at this point. there are issues in our relationship mostly stemming from teh fact that there was some rich older guy in Italy who wanted to marry her that I didn't know about for a long time when our relationship began. When she finally told me she ended it with him, he had a heart problem, she broke up with me, then we got back together and finally after I told her that he had to be out of the picture for us to continue she finally totally broke communication off with him. but it has made me really struggle walking this line of giving her space while also in honesty needing the validation of feeling like she values our relationship. A lot of this is honestly my insecurities, but I also feel like you know what I'm an attractive and good guy who has treated her well and stuck out that sh*t and I deserve someone who acts like they give a damn about us staying together and this is what has really gotten to me. I still don't feel like this has run its course, that being with her is still what I want.
Anyways after all of that I told her straight up that that I refuse to let us end this while there's distance between us and that us messaging each other really is just making it worse as we can't really talk everything out (and some of those things she said were the first time she had said them). I told her I loved her and that I was willing to bet on us and if WE both have the attitude to work things out we can. I guess for me if she still says she loves me, then that's what's important. So we agreed to talk when I get back. I plan on probably messaging her on New Years but otherwise not.
I guess in some ways I was trying to be distant and give her space at first and make her feel as you said Duke that emptiness, but I felt it and family asking about her and all didn't help. I guess what I really was hoping and waiting for was for her to contact me and as you said Duke React to me, which is in some ways why I got so frustrated, because she wasn't when I let her know that I deserve someone who values being with me. in a lot of ways she's held the power in our relationship and I guess I've wanted more than anything else for her to act like she realizes she could lose me and act like that matters to her.
This has been my sticking point I realize now, both trying to not seek validation while also wanting to feel like I'm getting the value I deserve and I guess by demanding it, I'm really just being AFC. Like I said I plan to message her on New Years and then getting together once I get back on the 7th probably a couple days once I'm back. I already bought her her favorite perfume for Christmas (which was not cheap) so I guess I will give that to her and try to keep things light at first but we need to talk everything out and either decide to put everything from the past on the table and talk it out so both are satisfied and then actually move forward from all of it or decide that we're better off alone. I love the girl but at the end of the day I do have to be with someone who actually wants to be with me and wants to work on the relationship which includes recognizing my needs. In some ways I'm really hoping she contacts me at some point in the next week, because I kind of realize there's no real damage control I can do at this point.
Any suggestions/words of support/wisdom?
by the way I was thinking about saying something along these lines when I write her Wednesday: Happy New Year, hope you're enjoying your trip. Just wanted you to know that 2013 was a year of challenges for me but I know I've learned and grown from all of them. We also met this year and while our relationship isn't one out of fairy tales, I know that every moment even the difficulties were real. I don't know all that 2014 has in store for me, but I know that I would love your company on the journey.
too much? was thinking of maybe mentioning that I am stopping smoking (if I decide to follow thru on that) something that I know she wants (and I'd be doing it for me, not her). Including a I love you/I adore you a good or bad idea? I know this is possibly pretty AFC and you guys may rag on me for it, but I want to show her that I'm persistent and secure in what I want and too proud to just walk away. I want to both show that I can be her rock while not being too needy.
This message is basically qualifying to her and it is making you pathetic and needy. It's alright to just say "Happy New Year!", but nothing else. Are you going to stop smoking for her or for yourself? If it is for her, then don't even do it. You should only change yourself for you, not for someone else. Changing for someone else is the exact opposite of standing for your beliefs. Being persistent and too proud to walk away is also a bad thing. This also comes across as needy to her and it won't do you anything good.
Reading into this entire situation, it looks like you are digging yourself a hole. You have done some things right. Recognizing that there were problems, and that you two actually needed to meet face to face in order to hash them out was an extremely good move. In addition, you telling her that she needed to drop the other guy in order for the relationship to continue was a very good move as well. It demonstrated a sense of strength and power in the relationship. However, there are more negatives than positives in this situation.
Do you remember what Duke said about being too emotionally invested? You saying that you love her, and telling her that you deserve someone who will commit to the relationship is not doing you any good. It's just giving her more power, and it's making you look less like a man and more like an AFC.
The fact that she was even talking to another man is a bad sign for you. Because you couldn't fill the man role for her, she found a rich guy who could fill the shoes. It's also bad because if this was occurring during the relationship, then that just shows she is unfaithful.
Your emotions and attraction towards her also drew you into a sinkhole. You could not win out the distance battle, and you caved in to outside pressure. Maintaining power in a relationship requires of you to be strong. If you can't man it out and resist the temptation to drop down on your knees for her, then it will be impossible for you to bring the ball into your own court.
Reading everything that has happened, I think this girl is not only too much for you, I also think that she is unhealthy for you. She has not demonstrated an ability to invest in the relationship at the level that you want, and things keep heading downhill for her. I would make your peace with her and then let go.
"There is no better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time." - Malcolm X
swagman, I appreciate your advice. Everything I read on here from you I find very much insightful and genuine. I want this girl though and I want things to get better. In regards to smoking it will be for me not for her. and in regards to the other guy, its the opposite, I filled the man role he couldn't and I never made any promises about replacing all the things he had promised her. since she met me she hasn't talked to anyone else (although it took her longer than I liked for her to drop him completely). I was at the point of walking away and she has never wanted that, and I guess in some ways me sticking through all of that turned the tables.
Man I'm just feeling this gut wrenching turning in my stomach and I want to be the man I can be and the man she wants, thats it and thats all. Maybe the best is for a final separation but its not what I WANT nor do I think its a conclusion that she seems to really want either or she would just do it and break off contact with me. I just want ot get over this resistance she's putting up. I guess at the end of the day I realize that whether conscious or subconscious on her part this is a mind-game.