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Thread: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywhere

  1. #1
    cockofzeus's Avatar
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    Default good midgame response but not getting anywhere

    I met this HB9 2 mos ago and we work together 4x a week. Currently i am very busy with school and work overnights with her. I havent been dating in a while but i meet new girls every week from parties most of which are NOT my type. This girl is 22, In a 5 year relationship(FIRST BF), doesnt have a lot of friends, smart but a bit indecisive about her career so her focus is mostly on her bf.

    The first few weeks we worked together ive built lots of attraction, future projections and lots of kino, she would msg me first, call me first, tag me on fb, tease me and flirt back. She would talk to me about how her bf stopped making effort in the relationship after 2 mos they got together. theyve broken up before and when i ran boyfriend destoyers she did tell me "she knows what she should do". I will become a Nurse by the end of the year while the Bf has a medical condition which prevents him from working and he cant drive because of it while. She mentioned to me the burden she would have in the future because of his condition.

    Now 2 weeks ago, something changed, theyre cool with each other again and my coworker and Old 50 yr old retired NY taxi driver who makes consistent jokes about us being together, told her i was really serious with her and her reply was 'but what about my bf'. I have a feeling that shame and guilt is preventing her from leaving him since she is a 'good girl'. the only time she considered cheating on him once was holding this guy's hand! and she said she felt bad because of it. moving on, after he said that and after her bf became nice again, i got less ioi's for a week and no more fb tagging, initiating texts. I decided to game harder and still be consistent, i have not revealed my feelings for her i dont want her to feel i am more attracted to her more than she is attracted to me and i play hard to get all the time. when i gamed her harder she did become flirty towards me again. so i decided escalated it a bit, like bite her shoulder while im behind her and 2 days ago i massaged her back since her back really hurt. nonetheless, she still loyal to the bf. we never went out on a date and i never kissed her before, i am aware this might be a oneitis but i plan to go sarging again and go to several dates after school in 5 weeks.

    during the first few weeks i was getting a lots of iois when they were fighting i felt like she just held onto me for validation during times she's not getting the attention from her bf. but im not sure since she took my advice from the heart and knows that she should stop seeing him. Now she wont talk about her bf, there were 2 instances she was wearing a pearl necklace instead of the one her bf gave to her, 2nd time i learned about it i discovered she wears it bcoz shes was pissed at bf (bf did not want to invite her to a surpriese party this weekend for a friend of his during elementary and makes excuses why she cant come). i let a few hours pass and she didnt want to tell me stuff about her bf but she would talk about other things. so i had to initiate the convo about whats going on. and i did my thing boyfriend destroyer, boyfriend destroyer and her reply was... 'well hes been good lately' like as a good boy its just the thing about the party.

    my question is what do you guys think about the sudden change of the way she responds to me. im lucky were flirting again, but now she wouldnt talk first about her relationship probs and give me attention outside work e.g. text, fb. Was it because she thinks i like her and she knows i have intentions to date her? or is she protecting herself from getting feelings towards me? i mean like she did let me give her a massage without hesitation...
    Is it a good idea to tell her 'shes not my type' yet continue gaming her? or sould i continue with what im doing with her knowing that i like her? I have a feeling that this girls has adapted since she my coworker told her that i like her, and im worried if i use more techniques to disqualify her bf she might become defensive instead of taking it in and think that i am being sincere.

    I am confused, i know some of you has been with this kind of girl before and i hope you guys can give me insight and guidance.
    Last edited by cockofzeus; 03-22-2014 at 05:24 PM. Reason: edit title
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  2. #2
    Ra1d is offline PUA Forums Respected Contributor
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    First of all,what did you say when you used the boyfriend destroyer ?(If I remember correctly,the BF destroyer doesn't disqualify the boyfriend,quite the opposite,so I'm not sure why you would use techniques that would disqualify her boyfriend).

    Second,it's actually bad when she's talking to you about her problems,especially problems about her BF.You're not her therapist.That's trip to a friend zone,so it might be good that she stopped,MIGHT be,not necessarily good.

  3. #3
    cockofzeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    First of all thanks for the reply,
    Quote Originally Posted by Ra1d View Post
    First of all,what did you say when you used the boyfriend destroyer ?(If I remember correctly,the BF destroyer doesn't disqualify the boyfriend,quite the opposite,so I'm not sure why you would use techniques that would disqualify her boyfriend).
    sorry i didnt mean disqualify rather build the bf up to ridiculous standards, disqualify when im telling her what would i do if i was in his shoes, i think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra1d View Post
    First of all,what did you say when you used the boyfriend destroyer ?(If I remember correctly,the BF destroyer doesn't disqualify the boyfriend,quite the opposite,so I'm not sure why you would use techniques that would disqualify her boyfriend).

    Second,it's actually bad when she's talking to you about her problems,especially problems about her BF.You're not her therapist.That's trip to a friend zone,so it might be good that she stopped,MIGHT be,not necessarily good.
    OMG i know i thought about this. Maybe thats why she stopped initiating texts and fb tagging and stuff.

    So your thoughts on how to proceed please?
    Last edited by cockofzeus; 03-22-2014 at 05:44 PM. Reason: add text
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    This girl is going to be hard,because if it's truly her first BF and they're in such LTR,that means getting rid of the BF will not be easy.The problem with this kind of girls(with no experience) is that once they're in a long term relationship,they are very forgiving,so unless there's something on a very serious level,it will be very hard for her to replace him in her mind.

    I don't have any experience with BF destroyers at all to be honest,I've just read through it once,but If you keep running bf destroyer all the time,initiating convos about her bf,this will feel weird at some point,and I don't think the BF destroyer will be as effective on her due to her lack of experience,it might actually be the opposite,which is why she responded with "He's been good lately".
    But I hope someone with more experience will reply here.

    I would say you talk to her about the girls you dated and your experiences with them just like she talked to you about her BF.
    Don't talk about her and her bf all the time,let her know that you have a life and a very fun life,and she could be a part of that life instead of wasting her time always complaining about her BF and then forgiving him.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    You're giving her wayy to much attention. When things go bad, she feels as if she can turn to you to make herself feel better while she's still with this other guy. Aka she's using you. Women do this all time. They string guys along while they're in a relationship to fulfill other areas of their life that may be lacking due to the relationship.

    So what do you do? You want to present the imagine that you're unobtainable to her and that other women want you. You want her to see you with other women, and you want her to hear stories. You also want to start disqualifying her to make her start qualifying herself to you. If you guys text make sure YOU always end the threads first, and that you don't text her for to long.

    What's my reasoning for this? She's obviously attached to her boyfriend. You want to present yourself as the better option while still making advances in your own life.

    Bullet point summary:
    -Flirt/disqualify. Share stories about other women (in a non braggy way) and let her see you with other women if possible.

    -If you text keep it short and playful, and end it first.

    -Don't get attached. You want to present yourself as the better option, but don't lie. Keep going out and getting to know people and live a life that you find fulfilling and awesome.

    -It's imperative that the attention that you give her is not a reaction of the interest she gives you. Meaning, always remain in different. An example woukd be if she texts you first, don't get too excited. Exchange a couple of text then end it.

    My thoughts are kind of scattered right now. I'm not sure if any of this make sense, so if you need clarification just ask.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra1d View Post
    The problem with this kind of girls(with no experience) is that once they're in a long term relationship,they are very forgiving,so unless there's something on a very serious level,it will be very hard for her to replace him in her mind.
    This is sooo true. I mean even for men, this is what its like if you had a first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra1d View Post
    but If you keep running bf destroyer all the time,initiating convos about her bf,this will feel weird at some point,and I don't think the BF destroyer will be as effective on her due to her lack of experience,it might actually be the opposite,which is why she responded with "He's been good lately".
    But I hope someone with more experience will reply here.
    I know. i should change my responses before convos get weird and before she builds more resistance to my attempts to destroy her bf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra1d View Post
    Don't talk about her and her bf all the time,let her know that you have a life and a very fun life,and she could be a part of that life instead of wasting her time always complaining about her BF and then forgiving him.
    this is what i started doing yesterday. i asked her opinion about this girl who got offended when i offered to pay for the date. the convo went like this...

    Alain:
    i need ur advice, how would you respond if a girl gets upset for you paying for dinner
    lets say you and i went out and we had a good time after clay shooting, tons of laughs and teasing cuz i beat you lol then we went to a sushi buffet, really tasty dinner
    then you get upset for me payng for dinner
    like why would someone get upset
    i think you can help because youre an independent woman and might have some insight to this
    Jessica
    3/22, 6:19pm
    Jessica
    Did you first establish between you two that it was a date bc if not then she may be offended that you crossed a boundary and she might just want to be frienda
    *friends
    Alain
    well the prob with dates i dont want the girl to think its serious. i havent been out anyone worthy enough of my time if i was to be a nurse and take to travel with me and stuff
    i dont want to break anybodys heart thats not me
    Jessica
    I would approach her if you really care for her, everyone is different
    idk jessica i guess youre right

    so i started doing what u said before you mentioned it. and i started talking about my dates. The day before i stopped by her store @ the mall to say hi while i brought a HB 8 with me. So i think im in the right track here. Thank you for the response Ra1d.
    Last edited by cockofzeus; 03-23-2014 at 12:52 PM. Reason: edit text
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    Zeus, I'm in a similar situation as you, dealing with my salsa teacher who is in a 2.5 year relationship. The bf is pretty much boring, very reserved, and has no similar interest as her and the relationship has pretty much run it's course. So I have a lot of experience dealing with this.

    I will echo what all of the above posters have said.

    1. DO NOT ever let her talk about her bf problems to you or talk about her bf. That is bad and skirting close to the friendzone. If she ever brings up the bf, then pretend you never heard it. Interpret each sentence as if without "bf" in it or change the topic. IF she stops talking to you about her bf. That is a good thing. Now sometimes a girl will constantly bring up her bf because she is feeling guilty so she wants to lay the burden on you. Look unaffected.

    2. You said, you never went out with this girl. Well I hate to ring it to you but you need to. FB tagging and commenting...That crap is weak. As listling said, that is one extra attention you can do less with. That is something PUAs like us don't do. Let her friends and fanboi's comment and write on walls. You need to spend what I refer to as quality moments with your girl. During that time, not only you are maintaining attracting, the most important thing is you need to establish comfort and some deep rapport. You need to get to know her as a person and she needs to get to know you. Why? Right now in a LTR, she is in a comfort zone. In order for her to break out of that comfort zone to break up with her bf for you, then she needs to know that you are a safe bet and can offer her that same stability, security and comfort and not break up with her in 6 months. During that time, it is a good thing to show that you are not some drama llama or jealous fvck. Very important. Also, this is a good time to make her qualify to you. Another important pointer I want to reinforce. You want to give her the illusion that you are not completely sold on her and she needs to work in earning you.

    Mix intermittently with attraction, the whole goal is you want her to fall in love with you. You are going to want to make her want you and think of you replacing the bf in her mind with you. From your post, establishing comfort is one thing I see you are failing to do. You seem to have the attraction part down. That alone won't fly. You are dealing with a good girl, like my girl, who won't easily compromise her morals. If attraction was all it took, then I probably wouldn't want her.

    Having said all that, the only way you can achieve this is you need to go out with her, meaning QUALITY TIME OUTSIDE OF A PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT Don't call it a date. It is less threatening. Call it hanging out. Meet for coffee. It trumps all. Less distracting the environment, more she can focus on you. I wrote a report on how I closed for D1 here, but much has happened since:

    http://www.puaforums.com/pick-up-fie...make-full.html

    3. You will constantly have to deal with the ups and downs of strong ioi's to weak ioi's. Yes, when things are good between her and her bf - less ioi's. When things are bad b/w them - more IOIs as you are giving her what she is not getting. It is just one of the cons of playing the long game with a girl in an LTR. The best way to do with this is mirror her. If she shows you disinterest then do the same. Disinterest should never be rewarded with value, but mirrored.

    4. At some point, the long game has to end. You need to end the dance. You need to throw your cards on the table and tell her what you want. Only do this once you have done everything you can to show her that you are the better choice and she is really attracted to you. Then, if she is still non-commital, you will have to do the David Tian's ultimatum. You need to tell her that you don't want to be friends and everytime you are with her it pains you. If you can't be more with her, then you rather not see her. I'd throw in my lines "Life is short, time flies, and as individuals we owe it to ourselves to find the best person for us. Someone that makes us happy and be in the moment. What if we are perfect together (based on all the things we have in common)? But instead of discovering that, I move on because you are afraid to take a risk just because you are with someone who might not be there tomorrow." The only answer you will accept is a "fvck yes or 'no'" Then you cut off all communication. Disappear from her life. Go no contact, be firm about it and do not deviate, and use that time for self improvement. The idea here is you want to create a void in her life that she lost someone, but this is only effective if you established strong attraction/comfort.

    5. As an endnote, you seem to have it worst than I do. What really aided in my favor is my girl and I have tons of things in common. I don't know what you have in common with this girl, but for me to compromise my morals and pursue a girl with a bf, she better have tons of things in common with me (hobbies/interests/outlook/values). It is things like that which keeps the relationship exciting. Don't believe all you hear about "opposites attract" crap. Read up on assortment theory. So look real deep. Make sure she is worth the long game. I don't care if she is an HB20. Looks get old. If you two got little in common, don't bother. Somewhere out there is a girl for you that is single.

    Best of luck.

  8. #8
    cockofzeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    Quote Originally Posted by lilsting View Post
    You're giving her wayy to much attention. When things go bad, she feels as if she can turn to you to make herself feel better while she's still with this other guy. Aka she's using you. Women do this all time. They string guys along while they're in a relationship to fulfill other areas of their life that may be lacking due to the relationship.

    So what do you do? You want to present the imagine that you're unobtainable to her and that other women want you. You want her to see you with other women, and you want her to hear stories. You also want to start disqualifying her to make her start qualifying herself to you. If you guys text make sure YOU always end the threads first, and that you don't text her for to long.

    What's my reasoning for this? She's obviously attached to her boyfriend. You want to present yourself as the better option while still making advances in your own life.

    Bullet point summary:
    -Flirt/disqualify. Share stories about other women (in a non braggy way) and let her see you with other women if possible.

    -If you text keep it short and playful, and end it first.

    -Don't get attached. You want to present yourself as the better option, but don't lie. Keep going out and getting to know people and live a life that you find fulfilling and awesome.

    -It's imperative that the attention that you give her is not a reaction of the interest she gives you. Meaning, always remain in different. An example woukd be if she texts you first, don't get too excited. Exchange a couple of text then end it.

    My thoughts are kind of scattered right now. I'm not sure if any of this make sense, so if you need clarification just ask.
    lilsting, first of all thank you for your specific opinion on how i should respond. I never actually learned the proper use of disqualification. but i do use this frequently. now youve made it clear i shall use it to make her qualify.

    Talking about my experiences dating and dhv is a great strategy lilsting since shes asked me a number of times before 'whats it like dating a girl'. she probably have scant experience dating and talking about my experiences would make my prizability go higher.

    Less attention and disqualification will be my priority for now. i will have to establish first that im not just someone to cry on to but rather a busy and rather have more important things to focus my attention to.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilsting View Post
    It's imperative that the attention that you give her is not a reaction of the interest she gives you. Meaning, always remain in different. An example woukd be if she texts you first, don't get too excited. Exchange a couple of text then end it.
    i need to work with this more and understand its use. what i have learned in the past is reward her for good behavior but your saying do it in different ways and dont see it as a big deal. maybe this is to make her work harder for my attention?

    and finally dont get attached. the thing i have been doing when i present her i have a fulfilling life and woment want me is that i always give her a hint that whoever im dating is not the one for me or is not up to my standards because i want her to think that i want someone with her qualities. I guess the question is. How do i present to her, here's the hook and im waiting for you to bite it.
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  9. #9
    cockofzeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    Quote Originally Posted by I.M.Mortal View Post
    Zeus, I'm in a similar situation as you, dealing with my salsa teacher who is in a 2.5 year relationship. The bf is pretty much boring, very reserved, and has no similar interest as her and the relationship has pretty much run it's course. So I have a lot of experience dealing with this.

    I will echo what all of the above posters have said.

    1. DO NOT ever let her talk about her bf problems to you or talk about her bf. That is bad and skirting close to the friendzone. If she ever brings up the bf, then pretend you never heard it. Interpret each sentence as if without "bf" in it or change the topic. IF she stops talking to you about her bf. That is a good thing. Now sometimes a girl will constantly bring up her bf because she is feeling guilty so she wants to lay the burden on you. Look unaffected.

    2. You said, you never went out with this girl. Well I hate to ring it to you but you need to. FB tagging and commenting...That crap is weak. As listling said, that is one extra attention you can do less with. That is something PUAs like us don't do. Let her friends and fanboi's comment and write on walls. You need to spend what I refer to as quality moments with your girl. During that time, not only you are maintaining attracting, the most important thing is you need to establish comfort and some deep rapport. You need to get to know her as a person and she needs to get to know you. Why? Right now in a LTR, she is in a comfort zone. In order for her to break out of that comfort zone to break up with her bf for you, then she needs to know that you are a safe bet and can offer her that same stability, security and comfort and not break up with her in 6 months. During that time, it is a good thing to show that you are not some drama llama or jealous fvck. Very important. Also, this is a good time to make her qualify to you. Another important pointer I want to reinforce. You want to give her the illusion that you are not completely sold on her and she needs to work in earning you.

    Mix intermittently with attraction, the whole goal is you want her to fall in love with you. You are going to want to make her want you and think of you replacing the bf in her mind with you. From your post, establishing comfort is one thing I see you are failing to do. You seem to have the attraction part down. That alone won't fly. You are dealing with a good girl, like my girl, who won't easily compromise her morals. If attraction was all it took, then I probably wouldn't want her.

    Having said all that, the only way you can achieve this is you need to go out with her, meaning QUALITY TIME OUTSIDE OF A PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENT Don't call it a date. It is less threatening. Call it hanging out. Meet for coffee. It trumps all. Less distracting the environment, more she can focus on you. I wrote a report on how I closed for D1 here, but much has happened since:

    http://www.puaforums.com/pick-up-fie...make-full.html

    3. You will constantly have to deal with the ups and downs of strong ioi's to weak ioi's. Yes, when things are good between her and her bf - less ioi's. When things are bad b/w them - more IOIs as you are giving her what she is not getting. It is just one of the cons of playing the long game with a girl in an LTR. The best way to do with this is mirror her. If she shows you disinterest then do the same. Disinterest should never be rewarded with value, but mirrored.

    4. At some point, the long game has to end. You need to end the dance. You need to throw your cards on the table and tell her what you want. Only do this once you have done everything you can to show her that you are the better choice and she is really attracted to you. Then, if she is still non-commital, you will have to do the David Tian's ultimatum. You need to tell her that you don't want to be friends and everytime you are with her it pains you. If you can't be more with her, then you rather not see her. I'd throw in my lines "Life is short, time flies, and as individuals we owe it to ourselves to find the best person for us. Someone that makes us happy and be in the moment. What if we are perfect together (based on all the things we have in common)? But instead of discovering that, I move on because you are afraid to take a risk just because you are with someone who might not be there tomorrow." The only answer you will accept is a "fvck yes or 'no'" Then you cut off all communication. Disappear from her life. Go no contact, be firm about it and do not deviate, and use that time for self improvement. The idea here is you want to create a void in her life that she lost someone, but this is only effective if you established strong attraction/comfort.

    5. As an endnote, you seem to have it worst than I do. What really aided in my favor is my girl and I have tons of things in common. I don't know what you have in common with this girl, but for me to compromise my morals and pursue a girl with a bf, she better have tons of things in common with me (hobbies/interests/outlook/values). It is things like that which keeps the relationship exciting. Don't believe all you hear about "opposites attract" crap. Read up on assortment theory. So look real deep. Make sure she is worth the long game. I don't care if she is an HB20. Looks get old. If you two got little in common, don't bother. Somewhere out there is a girl for you that is single.

    Best of luck.
    WOW. all i can say is...WOW. Your post is Golden I.M.Mortal. Thank god i switched to this forum than the other one lol. we do have a lot in common...goal, values, hobbies, relationship beliefs. and im not a believer of 'opposites attract' either. Since we work together, i will work on your suggestion until december which is when i graduate and leave that crappy job. who knows maybe i'll meet someone more worthy and i dont like spiking someone who has a bf anyway, im a believer in karma. until that time comes that i would give her your Divine Ultimatum, i will work on deep rapport and try to 'hangout' with her (she works 2 jobs which is why its difficult but not impossible). Real Comfort and deep raport is what i havent really established. The thing i dont get is if we dont knows whats going on in her relationship, because we dont talk about it, how do we know that a girl is about to breakup with a guy and use that timing to make the move . Most HB9+ are like monkeys and get a new bf in a week, i dont want my efforts with this woman to go to waste. I will make a note on mirroring and disqualifying and making her qualify. Less attention and work on myself better. I understand the concept of prizability but exactly how do i show her that i am a safe bet and can offer her that same stability, security and comfort ?
    Do well, Live well... And Dress really well.

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    Default Re: coworker with douche bf, midgame, good response but not getting anywher

    and finally dont get attached. the thing i have been doing when i present her i have a fulfilling life and woment want me is that i always give her a hint that whoever im dating is not the one for me or is not up to my standards because i want her to think that i want someone with her qualities. I guess the question is. How do i present to her, here's the hook and im waiting for you to bite it.
    Zeus, here is one thing I want to share with you - The whole thing is you don't have to overdo this and run it into the ground, constantly talk about your dates and what not. For a single girl, yes, it can be effective. However, for a girl who is in an LTR, it can also bite you in the ass. Why? Because depending on her esteem level, her initial reaction to any emotions you incite (jealousy, w/e) is to seek comfort back with her bf.

    Yes, it is important to establish social proof, but sometimes that can be taken out of context. That thing you did with bringing an HB8 to the mall to say 'hi' to her. That is good. Just tidbits like that to keep her guessing. I always live by the mantra "Show don't tell"

    That whole text exchange you did is not something I would do. Why? It goes back to the idea of you telling her your problems. You don't want to hear her problems. The same is true. Don't tell her your problems. That is not attractive because she has her own problems. It neither attracts or establishes comfort, just sympathy = not attractive. Again, as I reiterate from my previous post, you want to come off as a guy who has stability and security and a fun lucrative life. Even though I do know what you are trying to do in that text exchange, there are other ways of doing it.


    Jessica
    Did you first establish between you two that it was a date bc if not then she may be offended that you crossed a boundary and she might just want to be frienda
    *friends

    [I don't know if you caught this. But have you consider that this is an innuendo from her?)

    Alain
    well the prob with dates i dont want the girl to think its serious. i havent been out anyone worthy enough of my time if i was to be a nurse and take to travel with me and stuff
    i dont want to break anybodys heart thats not me

    [Okay, yea. I see what you are trying to do. Subtle hinting. Innuendo to her that you are DQing everyone and establishing value for yourself. Again, other ways of doing this in person rather through this approach]

    Jessica
    I would approach her if you really care for her, everyone is different

    [Oh, gawd...typical woman answer. "Approach her. Tell her how you feel"...*facepalm* Regarding asking women for advice on dating other women...one of the PUA rules is DON'T DO THIS...That is like asking a meth addict how to stop using drugs (*credit Kyl3).]

    Regarding how I established social proof with my salsa teacher in an environment where I am a newbie dancer. All I did was I brought two male friends, two good looking guys, an actor and a singer on two separate nights. On another nite, brought over a cute friend who was a ballet dancer to the club where she teaches. I just introduce "this is so and so" and said nothing more on that to leave her guessing.

    Although I number closed other girls at the club, I don't tell stuff like that to her. It's kind of a dlv needing to qualify/validate to her. I just show, don't tell. And everything has been smooth sailing on my end.


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