some takeaways from the convention

Ironic I should be sharing this on a site called PUA forums! But I hope
you'll find it useful and thought-provoking.

Last weekend, Nick and I sojourned down to Orlando to speak at the
"21 Convention," an incredibly well-organized get-together in the
city that Disney built. Besides a fun trip to Disney world with
our friends Francis and David, we met some cool people, and
hopefully inspired and educated a few more.

I personally had some takeaways that I wanted to share. When we
work with clients on our bootcamps or platinum programs, they are
often coming into our world - our place, our event, our teaching
style - and there is typically a degree of respect, and sometimes
nervousness. We get to know them over the course of the weekend (or
month, in the case of the Platinum Program), and we try to
encourage healthy attitudes during that time.

But at this Orlando event, we were at the epicenter of group
PUA-think. Its common in any social situation; there is a
prevailing value system and social protocol, and people tend to try
to fit within that. It happens with punk rockers, it happens with
private equity guys, it happens with PUAs.

The thing is, a lot of the PUA group think is really
counterproductive. Let me give you a few examples:

- there was a lot of focus amongst many of these guys on how many
sets they'd opened, kind of a competition. We'd never discourage
you from starting as many conversations as you like, but when
someone thinks that they're making progress merely by "opening
sets", they're missing the point. that's not where the progress is
made - it is made when you -pay attention- to what is working and
what isn't, learn how to calibrate, and improve your social skills
accordingly.

- there was definitely a bit of a focus on being "different,"
whether that was with one's hair, hat, words, or socks. It was
sort of like "who can stand out the most and still be cool." I
appreciate a guy who is trying to stretch his identity - I did it
in high school with a mohawk - but I'll tell you that I do better
with women in -nice- clothes than I did in anything outlandish,
ever. But then again, I go for girls who like nice clothes; club
chicks in Vegas may be a different story.

- there was an insane focus on the "score" of the women they were
approaching. One guy showed me a number he'd taken in his
phonebook, and stored as "Sarah HB 9.6". I wasn't the only guy he
was showing it to. And hey, if you want to call a girl an 8 or an
9 or a 10, that's fine... guys have been doing that since time
immemorial. But no one is impressed until you're dating or
sleeping with her. And even better if you can end whatever
relationship you have with her on good terms. Bragging about the
"10" whose number a guy takes smacks of proving oneself.

- lack of social calibration. David, Francis, Nick and I were
sitting in a booth, with a young woman named Erika sitting at the
end of the booth. One of the attendees came to join us, and
literally pushed Erika's chair out of the way to make room for
himself. We all looked at him funny - that's just a weird thing to
do - and he conceded that he thought he was supposed to show
"dominance." Yes... when the girl is sort of into you and when you
want to escalate. But that was just lack of common courtesy.
Wasn't the only such example, but it was a decent one.

- overgaming. it sucks when you run out of things to say. But
what about when you have too much to say? Some guys learn routines
and go on WAY too long. Others interrupt women early on in an
attempt to "stack more value" with their own stories. Why? If
the woman is talking and opening up to you, let her talk! It's
less work and if you actually listen to her she'll appreciate it,
want to open up more, then start asking questions about this great
guy who has been listening to her talk about her life. One of the
worst pieces of advice I've ever seen in this community is that you
should interrupt women in order to stack more of your own stories.

Ok, what's the point of this email? Well, it's not to bash on the
"community." We are attempting to build a little community at TSM, and I
think that communities are awesome when the values of the community
are healthy, and contribute to everyone's success.

In fact, as I'm watching the community-at-large evolve, I'm seeing
a move towards more natural stuff, better attitudes towards women,
etc.

But there are still some holdovers. And they're not just community
attitudes, they're childish attitudes. They're how many men
between the ages of 15 and 25 think. Its like being in a frat
house. But In the pickup community, they're sort of formalized and
given more weight than they deserve, owing to the nature of this
"let's get girls" goal.

Most fraternities come together to, well, get girls. But also to
watch sports, play beer pong, go on outings, and do other social
activities. These other activities are almost entirely absent from
the pickup community, so the values and conversations often skew
towards things like how many approaches a guy did last night.

I assure you that these are not the conversations that men are
having who do well with women. Their values and goals are a little
bit different, and might include things like:

- how far did they get last night?
- how did the date go?
- why they succeeded or failed
- the crazy things that the girl said or did

...and some men just don't kiss and tell at all.

You see, in all of these, there is a presupposition that the woman
thing is handled, *at least enough that they don't have to prove it
to other guys.*

And that last piece is exactly the difference that can make all the
difference in the world. Is a guy in this to be popular amongst
the guys? Or is he in it to get girls? (and when he becomes an
instructor, is it for his love of teaching and helping others, or
because he likes having people listen to him?)

Jay-Z once said "game recognize game, ho's do too." Jigga Man was
right. A guy with good game, and generally good social skills, can
tell when another guys is trying to prove himself.

Chances are that if he's trying to prove himself to another guy,
he's doing it to women too. Exactly what many men got into this
whole world to avoid.

Takeaways? Be yourself and set your own standards. No one is
impressed by a man who can't get further than a number, or who
dates a hot woman who makes him miserable.

And at the end of the day, what you experience with any woman is
ultimately something for the two of you two enjoy together.

__________________

I highly recommend: Ignite The Night.

Well Christian - I've heard some AMAZING things about you and Nick. If PUA or pickup lines are not where it is at... where or what should we (well I) be doing to improve my success with women?

What is the "21 convention" and how do I go next year?

Haha, thanks man...

Ok well look - "pickup" isn't bad, per se. Like shooting isn't bad. Its only bad when gun nuts get together and lobby for assault weapons. Getting the metaphor?

Going out to work on picking up girls, and hanging out with others who want to do the same, there's nothing wrong with that. Its a damn right of passage, I'd say! It's only when the "group think" - what the other PUA guys think - gets in the way of progress.

I've seen this a bunch. Its painful to go up and get rejected, and its a lot easier to stand there and talk big and critique. So when a bunch of guys get into it who aren't experienced, there is a lot of posturing. That's natural social dynamics as any group forms. The guy who is most sure of himself becomes the leader. And when no one is getting results (which in the early days of anyone's pickup progress, can be tough to come by), you start to look to other metrics, like the hotness of the girl you talked to, or the number of approaches you did. All well and good... until those start becoming the dominant ways of measuring success.

Make sense?

So I say go out, work on pickup, work on social skills, comport with others! That's all fine. Just keep a level head and remember why you got into this to begin with: to meet and date hot women.

__________________

I highly recommend: Ignite The Night.

christian is a genious although the "15-25 attitude" thing was kinda unfair lol. i must say that post was brilliant.

__________________
sincerly, BANDIT

How old are you bandit...