Day Game. Blanked out.

I am pretty sure you have been thrown up against the fake boyfriend. If the girl really showed the attraction that you previously mentioned, she either doesn't have a boyfriend, or she is looking to trade up. You need to not show any signs that you were put off by the 'boyfriend'. Play normal game. If she brings up the boyfriend again, I suggest Adonis's method of dealing with it. Look up the strawman method, on the forum here. I posted about it before, and I think other's probably have to. Don't fall for the mythical boyfriend. The worst thing that can happen is that she totally blows you off. I think she was probably a little put off by the previous decoy blow off and now she is testing your meddle to see what type of guy you really are. If she starts to really blow you off, neg her a little or, turn away and talk to someone else. You most likely showed too much interest earlier, at one point. So you need to counter that by being a little dismissive when she starts to be defensive. She needs to be chasing you.

thanks for the input. I was totally thrown off when she did that to me (I had no clue what was going on). It seems that girls have a lot more patience and tolerance than I had expected. Since I've been careful in how much emotion I've invested in her, rebuilding with decoy and isolating her for a while won't be an issue.

Thanks for restoring my confidence. I'm sure I'm good enough for her.

Just out of curriousity, when I pulled the move on decoy, was she put off by how I was able to ditch her like that or was it soley giving her too much attention?

You need to get her to go/do something fun with you. Invite her and her friends to meet up with you and your friends to tailgate before a football game. Or if you have something fun planned (plan something) and invite her to and her friends to join you (and your friends). Basically you need to show her the fun you and your friends are having and invite her to come along. Of course it needs to be without her boyfriend... but just having conversation with her is not going to escalate anything. Need to get her out and have fun - do you ever see her at parties or other places where it is more 'fun', not just seminars or class.

If I invite her friends and my friends wouldn't it be natural for her to invite her bf along? (I'm just conjecturing here). How am I supposed to filter him out? Also, the tricky part to this is that my friends are Asian and they have this fear of people not within their culture. I can try it but considering there's 1) culture gap 2) age gap this becomes something not so easy to achieve. Even though this may not be a problem on her end.

Another thing I'm stressed over is how I don't have a car that I can drive around with. It's impossible to take her to fun places where I live without a car. The traveling time is just not within reasonable limits.

Couple of things:

First of all, if you can invite her, when she is with some of her girlfriends, it is naturally understood that you are inviting the people you see, and not their boyfriends/other friends.

Also, if she really does like you, which once again, I am pretty sure she does, look at it from her point of view. Right now, she doesn't know if she can trust you, but she really wants to. If you can mitigate the trust issues by inviting her to a group hang out (she doesn't have to worry about you moving too fast on her), she would love to hang out with you. If she really is interested, she likely isn't going to bring a boyfriend, because then there isn't a chance for anything to happen. Women are a little funny that way. They want things to happen, but they don't want them to happen too fast, so they artificially create barriers if they feel uncomfortable with how things are happening. You want to mitigate her discomfort or fear of discomfort.

Bill is right. I got a little caught up in the more pressing issues, but ultimately you need to disable the timebomb and move things forward. Which gets you back to the getting her out thing. Since she is obviously feeling uncomfortable at this point, you are going to have more luck getting her out with friends.

Picking up women is a bit like going down a slide. Once you start, you have to keep moving things in the right direction, otherwise you will lose them.

Well, she just re-admitted to university after working in the real world for a few years so her friends won't be people that I know. I'm guessing my only resort is to use the friends that I've built up with her in the language class.

In this case, I'll try to pull my group into a "lunch hang out" since Girl A talked about how she knows where all the good Japanese restaurants are. However, I'm worried because they kinda know that I'm interested in her after the decoy drop event. I don't know if the people will cooperate with me. I'll try to meet some new people at the same time to build rapport with them and get them to come out as well.

All of this talk about you being asian is a limiting belief. For a while my #1 wing was an asian guy in NYC (what up GEO!) and he was amazing with women of all races. Stop worrying about race man...

Update on Girl A:

Today's lecture day so as usual, I would sit next to her. She seemed to appear a little bit frightened (I'm guessing, she thinks I'm going to start speed racing my way into her) so I pretended to be the normal friendly guy. I didn't say much to her although she tried to start a few brief conversations with me. During class, I constantly sat closer to the opposing side to her (leaning away) and she seemed nervous (by observation of leg crossing and nervous ticks). At the end of class, she offered to help me grab some brochures that were placed at the front of the classroom. I then thanked her and told her I need to rush for my next class and left.

Plan for tomorrow:
Go back to sitting with Decoy (increase conversation with her to show her I'm not mr.jerkus ditching her) and trying to build relations with other people (putting minimum focus on Girl A).

As usual, feel free to throw in ideas/suggestions/comments when reading my daily updates.

Sounds like you have done a good job of reassuring her that you aren't needy. It seems that she is now trying to prove herself to you again.

It is critical that you try to get her out, in a fun environment where you can build attraction, very soon, or she will think that you no longer are interested in you, then she will "lock" you out. One of the crazy paradoxes about women, is that if you almost close the deal, but don't, you are in a much worse position than if you don't make a move at all, or you blow your approach.

Don't hit on her directly in class, but be friendly, and flirtatious. I would try to slip in a couple of lightly sexually suggestive comments, but keep them light and not directly aimed at her. Most important GET HER OUT!

Gotcha. I'm approaching a clipping point here. I mean, I've never gone this far with a girl before. It's the part where I start to get a little nervous. December is a little far off so to get her out on an event with "some friends" when the ones we have in common are the few that started with us during the beginning of our school year, really is going to put me in a tight spot. I've asked around my co-workers to get advice on how I can find "fun" activities to get together with. I'm going to be flipping through a few webpages to see what events my city has to offer and I might slap on a lunch or something to make things light. A big problem is most of the people are getting busier this time of the year (midterms/exams are around mid November to around Christmas). Getting others to come along will be hard!

any suggestions on how I can "program" my classmates to go? If I've got 2 relatively trusted friends (1 guy 1 girl) that she doesn't know at all, would it be okay to get them out come with girl A and I? If so, should I give them a heads up on what's happening or is this top secret?

I've spoken to one of my co-workers and he said that my response on the text-msg part was poor because I've responded to her with a convo-stopper. Do you guys think it's true? Was "lol.. see you this Saturday" sufficient or should I've left room for a text convo?

I don't know when your class is, but you could just invite her to get lunch with you on campus or something.

Also, getting her out with friends is the best option, however, getting her out under the pretext of hanging with other friends can work. If you can't get other people involved in a group activity, you can tell her that you are doing something with a couple of friends. When the event roles up, and you meet her, just tell her that your other friends flaked. It will be important to manage her reality, so you probably will want to say something along the lines of, "Yeah, I know what you are thinking. It looks like I made that all up just get you to hang out." Don't be apologetic, and don't move too fast if this is how it goes. However, make it fun and build kino. I forgot about the end of the quarter and stuff. If you don't close with her before then you are SOL. Take it from a guy who knows. I lost a lot of women, because I didn't act fast enough, and we would start to click right before the end of the quarter. The next quarter, after all the vacations were over, there would be no remaining attraction, and generally, since I didn't have an excuse to see them (class) it was really hard to build it again.

One important thing about getting your friends out to do something:
Don't try to get them out to help you get a girl. What you want to do, is get them to come out and do something that you know they will enjoy, just as friends. Then you invite the girl. If it is something unusual, that is okay, because it is different. It separates you from all the other guys this girl has "dated" before.

Ok let me get this straight,

Priorities:
- I need to close before Christmas hits.
- build kino and do it fast
- Get her out! (I might be able to do lunch with her tmr)
- Try to get my friends to setup an event without announcing my intentions to the world (I've already arranged for something to happen next week [hopefully it falls through smoothly])

Questions that I have:
- Friends observe so they can probably tell what's going on VERY soon. What if they start doing funny things?
- When inviting the girl out with my friends, should my friends know that someone they don't know is coming or should this be a TOTAL surprise?
- Closing: Does this mean * close?

Today's report:

Characters involved:
-Girl A
-Girl B
-Girl C (benched and will probably no longer be connected)

Girl A:

Things are happening VERY fast and rapid at this point. If you could imagine me on a fighter jet right now, I'd say I'm stalling. I can feel that wrong move I've made at least killed 60% of my attraction. She stopped with the hair flip but occasionally looks over. I entered class a little late so I had to sit somewhere else. I could see her through the corner of my eye, but I didn't look at her. However, I felt that if I kept up with this strategy, she will really believe that I am no longer interested in her so when she left, I decided to get some kino going. I slowed down my packing to wait for her to catch up and then when she walked in front of me I placed both my hands on her shoulder and gave her a gentle massage. I think I saw a little bit of a spike in her reaction when I did that (jumped a little). We then started a small conversation and she even joked around with me (I'm rebuilding comfort). Hopefully, she'll leave thinking that I still have something for her. I'm still trying to devise a plan to get her out ASAP because I can feel she's slipping out of my grip really fast. She talked about her BF again except it was brief. Something like "I'm so tired too because my bf was sick and I kept waking up every now and then during the night". At that point, I couldn't see how I could use the strawman method so I decided to just omitted it and left it. She also mentioned her bf again in class when the teacher asked her what she got for her birthday which makes me wonder if her boyfriend is still important to her or not? Through that question that the teacher asked, she announced her birthday and so now I know exactly when it is. I don't know if this piece of information is key or not, but to be brief, her bday has already passed.

Side Question:
-Are there any small gestures I can do to try to rebuild the attraction while I'm trying to get a plan going?

Girl B:

Things took a while to rebuild but Girl B has finally broken her lock down and things are back in business. Attraction is pretty much gone, but hey, friendship was what I was asking for right? We went to buy some coffee and she suddenly changes her mind and says she didn't bring her wallet. I personally needed the coffee and didn't want to not have my drink just for the sake of her (make me look needy) so I told her I needed that drink and she said she'll head to tutorial first.

On the letting the friends know:
You misread my post, or it was unclear. It isn't that you don't want your friends to know what is going on. What I was saying is don't try to get them to hang out, just so that you can get a girl. Make the event something that they will enjoy. It is perfectly fine if they know that you are throwing the entire thing to have an excuse to hang with a girl. You want the event to somehow describe you, and what you enjoy. It builds value when you take the girl to do something that you will mutually enjoy, and that your friends also appear to be enjoying.

On the close:
Unless I further elaborate, a close, means anything where you have physically left no room for doubt, in her mind, that you like her. That means, at least a kiss. However, you will likely need to progress to at least heavy petting or sex before Christmas, if you truly want the attraction to have a chance of surviving the break.

On her boyfriend:
It sounds like her talking of the boyfriend was more a reflection on her crappy night, than a hint that she has a boyfriend. You were correct in ascertaining that it was an inappropriate time to attempt any so called "Boyfriend Destroyer" technique (I hate that term).

Since you are working on a tight deadline and you are about to burn out anyway, if you don't get a break. You might consider playing the game, high stakes. In that case, be more direct about hanging out with her. The worst she can do is blow you off.

Building kino, is about building physical comfort. Be careful that you don't frighten her, too much, when you do it. Kino is especially powerful, if you can catch her eye, and then deliberately touch her in some manner.

Don't worry too much about sitting next to her. If you make a point of sitting next to her, it will look like you are chasing her. Move around, just try to chat with her every day, since you have made a habit of it.


I don't have much to say on Girl B, just keep it light and fun, and you may turn it around. Don't let her peg you in the friends category without making her work. In other words, just because she has decided you are friends, don't start acting like a friend. Keep gaming her lightly. Don't be a shoulder to cry on.

Thanks. This is going to help me with my game plan tmr. I'll try for the lunch thing for sure hoping to be a little be more direct with her without being mr.sticky. She did tell me during our study day that she's dated a lot of Asian guys in the past and they all have been pretty sticky and she says she's independent. I think she might be hinting something that day.

Updates on Girl A:

This morning was good. It seems like minor-attraction has been rebuilt. She has re-brushed her hair lol... Now, I got her to go to lunch with me. I still feel I'm not that good with topics so she did most of the sharing (I know this isn't something to be proud of but at least it got us through). She talked about her boyfriend again, she said things like "oh we would watch these TV shows together and he would download chick flicks even though he acts like he's against it.. blah blah blah". She didn't go on ages about him, just that she would throw in bits and pieces of him here and there. She also changed her cell phone wallpaper (unless I didn't notice) of her and her boyfriend together. We joked around while she was doing homework and stuff. I got kino on her again today (although she was looking down on her book and didn't see my hand reaching over to her) by touching her hair and she didn't seem to mind). There are 2 things that she told me about her today that I didn't know about. The first is that she has a tattoo on her back. What's significant is when I asked her why I didn't see it she says "you'll never see it because it's on my back" (possible hidden meaning?). The second thing she told me was that she had a Japanese male friend of hers (a make up artist) started msging her again and how they hung out a little too much in the past and to keep things simple he basically F closed her and got into trouble with her bf. Here's where I'm getting worried. This HAS happened before. I don't know guys... I'm shaking up here. It seems like the BF has some sort of control over her because she could've easily gone off with that Japanese guy if she wanted to. Then while we were practicing, she accidentally blurted out the word "sex" again. I forgot to mention on Saturday's update that she we had gone to this point where we had to think of a good example of something we can't do alone and the first thing that she blurted out was, you guessed it, "sex". My assumption here is that she's been lacking some, but this would make me her F-buddy and now that this Japanese guy is back in the game, I'm fighting 2 guys. She started to text him back telling him happy birthday and all sorts of stuff (you never know what might happen there in the future) and asking me what to do. I didn't give any opinion (I didn't know what to say). I want a girlfriend that goes stable not a F-buddy (although it would be nice ><). But seeing how things have progressed, it's giving me second thoughts. What do you guys think? I'm kinda confused right now. She's giving me mixed signals. Is she trying to gently kick me out?

Updates on Decoy:

Decoy behaved better than I had though. She still talks to me, but I can feel not as eager to as before. I don't blame her. I'm hoping to slowly rebuild things back with her so our group won't fall apart.

My usual two bits:

Her talking about her tatoo, and hanging out with you are all very good things. When you get to a point where you are ready to get more sexual, the tatoo is a very good opening. She only told you about it, because she is interested in you. Don't freak out about the past history stuff, with Asians. The fact that she told you that, tells you two things. One: that she is interested in you. Two: that she is worried that you might be clingy. Also it might suggest that you have been channeling your insecurity about being Asian. If that is the case, you need to deal with that ASAP.

You need to subtly ramp up attraction, but also convey that you are not a clingy person.

Ways to do that:
If you disagree with her on anything, tell her that. And give her a little crap about those things, in a joking manner.
If she unexpectedly gives you some sort of really strong ioi, that you didn't do anything to deserve, push-pull her lightly about it. In other words, if she starts rubbing up against you, and it isn't in response to something you did, sternly tell her that she'd better watch it, and quite getting so "fresh" with you. When she backs off, crack a smile, and tell her her you were only kidding, while patting her on the back or something.

It is all right if she leads the conversation. That is a really good thing. It means she is really attracted to you. Talking about relationships is fine. However, don't let yourself become her psychologist. If she starts basically opening up about all this past crap, agree with her that it sucks, and then tell her something like, "But I choose not to dwell on it. I live for the here and now." then change the topic.

Well, what if she's talking about the present? IE: "I'm going to be watching X show with my boyfriend this weekend". How can I put that off? Hmm... I think I left with a slight bit of clinginess today. There's this awkward moment when she said she wanted to go to the washroom and I just stood there. I thought about walking her to class. And I think at one point I did convey a bit of insecurity about being Asian thing in the past. It's just my bad habits coming back, I'll work on perfecting that. Thanks.

When she says some like, "I'm going to be watching X show with my boyfriend this weekend", you have three choices:

1. Ignore it
2. Say something like, "That's cool. I am going to by doing Y." Be enthusiastic about Y. If she looks interested in Y, you can add, that it is too bad, she is going to be stuck with her boyfriend.
3. Try that straw man technique. "Sounds like fun. It must be really nice to have someone who always has time to watch your favorite show with." If you really want to work it, add: "I bet he misses a lot of cool stuff, just so he can schedule the time with you." Then you change the topic before she can respond.

I'm planning to arrange something next Saturday with my 2 friends (as mentioned a few posts before). We'll address them as Helper A and B from here on.

Right now I'm thinking of all the possibilities of closing. Classes end right at the beginning of December (exams follow after) so I need to close sometime November latest or it's over. This means I technically have to close on this meet up or it's game over. What are some ways I can close under different conditions. I'll list a few here that I'm thinking of right now:

1) We're up town at a restaurant after a dinner. There are no parks only shops/restaurants one after another. Helper A and B will be with us.

How do I isolate and do my closing? I need to ensure that I can do this without distraction.

2) We're down at the harbor watching sunset after a nice meal. I tell make some small talk about how nice it is to watch the sunset, throw in a nice pause, tell her she's beautiful and then go for the kiss.


Now ideally, #2 would be a no brainer but the problem is that location is downtown and 1) She's lived in downtown for many years (she knows all the places). This means no element of surprise. 2) The events listed on the site are crap and I can't find anything "fun" to do. Most activities are targeted for little kids.

I'm following the venue change format so I'm planning at least 2 venues that I need to use for this to be successful. Any ideas or suggestions welcomed.