Mini-Steps

Alright so I was told that my thread apparently got so popular that people started adding viruses

Just kidding...

Well here I am again trying to start fresh so let's get to it.

Mar 17 2010

A little recap from a report posted on "fack another failed kiss close" thread. I was approached by a friend of a friend of mine whose name is Zar. She gave me that sticky girl vibe and was extremely open about sex. Within a few days she almost laid it out that I can do whatever I wanted to her. My goal of learning PUA is to learn the necessary skills to have choice in the types of women I want to be with.

For those who have somewhat mastered PUAism will understand that if a girl threw herself at you free of charge and gave you direct access to her p*ssy your willingness to continue to date her and to work for her will significantly decline.

I've decided to give this girl a try because no girl has ever been this close to me ever and I'd have first experience on kiss all the way to potentially farking.

I've asked Instinct for advice on how to handle her what I should consider this relationship as. Instinct's answer was pretty direct. It was simply "No commitment fark, stay friends / leave". She was desperate in setting up a date with me so I decided to give it a go and we met up last night.

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I noticed something weird when my friend Ayu (Zar's best friend who introduced us) started calling/msging me after that night. I wanted to find out what Zar's all about before I make any level of commitment so I asked her information and felt I had a better understanding of this girl.

This is a girl with quite a bit of problems within her family and has had many messed up relationships. I don't want to disclose too much of her information here, but it's safe to say that she's been through quite a bit. Either way, she doesn't seem to have her life worked out (not the type that we as PUAs would expect).

Ayu then asks me what I would expect a girl I like to be. I started naming out pretty much what's written here on the forums:

- A woman who can take care of herself
- A woman that has a life (social with others)
- A woman who's interesting
- A woman who's not a gold digger
- A woman who has self-esteem and self respect (non-sticky)

The next day, Zar became a completely different person. She stopped calling and texting as often (although she'd still call me way before our actual meeting time) but she seemed to have significantly improved. I talked to Ayu only to find that she's leaked all the info I gave to her right at Zar.

Our date was decent, but it felt weird cause she kept saying that she wanted to pay and that she's not a gold digger which imho made our date kinda weird.

We went into the theaters and what Zar really wanted was for me to fark her. Half way into the movie, she started to put my hands on her breasts again and resting her arm on my penis. I'm not going to lie, things got pretty heated there. I don't think there'd be a guy who can have absolutely no reaction.

But all I thought about was wanting to finger her (she said she likes it) and I didn't feel that it was right to have sex with her (even though Instinct would totally go for it). I asked her if she wants to be fingered and she said yes. We went through many weird awkward movements to get my hand there without others being able to see us. I was only able to rub her from the outside.

The movie soon ended and we went to a quiet area int the mall and she started holding me really tight and kissing me. This was a kiss close!! I thought a kiss close was supposed to be some setup Hollywood moment but it wasn't at all. The kiss was nice though and it was interesting to learn from a pro.

After a while we settled on a sofa at the mall and I started reaching in. She was really wet. It was hard for me to go any deeper than just the opening due to really tight pants but she seemed to enjoy it and I watched as she got really high. While I was fingering her, we started talking and she told me she wants me to be inside her.

I told her that I wanted to be friends only even if I did, but she said she wanted a relationship (which made no sense to me). After a while of failing to convince me, she stops me and said that what we're doing isn't right. She told me she wanted a solid relationship (Instinct told me that's a lie).

She even suggested for me to go over to her house on our next date to fark her. I don't know, it just didn't feel right and I didn't want to sell myself that low for sex so I declined. I told her I wanted to get to know her better. After all, I could test out to see if Instinct's theory is true (sorry Instinct, I had to see for myself to believe).

We kissed and even had a bit of tongue action and parted. I don't know guys, I just feel something isn't right with where I'm going. My mom went nuts after knowing what is happening and kept selling her out of my life. In a calm sense when I've thought about it, she wanted sex, attachment, and she's not the type that can handle it, I'm really worried that it will backfire.

She's definitely not the type I want for a girlfriend. I can't imagine my girlfriend just willing to put herself on a plate and beg a guy to fark her with absolutely no resistance.

So there I have it, k-close established. Felt very nice and now even had a first handed experience of how a really wet p*ssy feels like. I was surprised, however, that it wasn't as good as I thought it would feel. It's as if my imagination is the reason why it's placed on a pedestal.

My thoughts:

- Great experience since I'm a noob
- k closed (Not quite what I was expecting, but now know how it feels)
- Had a lot of cuddling moments
- Got to know a bit better what type of girl I'd like
- Zar is probably not suitable for me
- Could've been more stronger in my frame to hold her hand first instead of having her to initiate

All of this helped me gain knowledge into how to hold a girl right, how to seduce a girl (since she's using my hand to please herself). It will help in my future game definitely and I'm grateful for this experience. I've made no commitments and probably will break up with her on our next meeting.

I see that she's suppressing herself hard to "please me" which isn't what I wanted. I wanted a REAL girl, not a pre-programmed robot. I wanted her to be happy as well because it's painful for both sides to try to be together if nothing's working out.

Comments? Feedback? All welcomed.

I think what you are doing here that is making you feel so torn about this thing is that you are being overly critical. I can point out at least 5 times between your old thread and what you wrote here that is a straight up contradiction, but there is one that I would especially like to point out.

In your other thread you say that when you are talking at the table you aren't even gaming, just being yourself.

In this thread you say that "I wanted a REAL girl, not a pre-programmed robot. I wanted her to be happy as well because it's painful for both sides to try to be together if nothing's working out."

The thing about it is that you seem to feel like the relationship you are building is all wrong. I'm not 100% sure on the reason you think this but it seems to me that the reason is that you feel like she is TOO into you. I want you to ask yourself a question. When you were sitting at that table and were talking to her and feeling her attraction building, where you gaming? The answer is no! You tell us so yourself! So then what is she so attracted to? What is making her go so far out of her way to spend time with you. What is making her want to fark you after d2? Well the answer is that it is YOUR personality. It's not some personality that you forged so you could get chicks that she is so hooked on, its YOU.


Footnote: I talk about game like its a tool just to get as much action as possible, and that we take on a different personality so we can get action. This is not my belief though, the only reason I address game in this way is because that's how I'm pretty sure M_W is thinking about it.

It's funny reading this because i had the EXACT same situation happen to myself. A while back it became apparent that this girl liked me. I went over her place for a party she was having with some friends and we started making out. She told me she wanted to fark me (by the way why does everyone say fark on here?) and at first i didnt know what to do with myself. Because of logistical reasons, nothing happened that night.

The next night she came over. Being new to this i wasnt expecting so little of a fight. I was looking for a movie or something to put on and she was just looking at me like arnt we gonna fark? Then basically said... turn the tv off what are we waiting for.

I took her to my room and we fooled around a bit. I fingered her just like you for my first time and had her begging me to fark her. All that was going through my head was "no, this isnt right. its not what i want" and so i didnt. I told her no. Needless to say it got kinda weird and she didnt like me much anymore. She was insecure and thought i didnt like her then was concerned about me thinking she was a slut etc.

Moral of the story... I have felt exactly what you feel and dont worry about it. There are more girls to come and you can be picky about it. After you do experience sex your opinion will probably change though and you will have a different Mindset.

Update March 19 2010:

Zar - I think this girl is going all her way to try to drive me nuts. She's didn't pick up my "routine" call last night (I only limit myself to do one and no more). She text me back this morning saying she was in the shower.

I texted her today with "np It's such a nice day today". She doesn't return my text and waits until 8pm to text me back with "hey hun how's your day today". My mom think she's trying desperately to play hard to get so I'm going to wait it out and see if she calls me.

**update**
She called twice at the designated time and no longer called. I'm not sure what she's trying to do. Perhaps test me? I don't think she realize that I'm able to go on without her.

This relationship is turning really weird =/

day game - I've decided to try gaming random ppl again after gaining some confidence through Zar. I was returning home from school and I saw at the corner of my eye this asian looking women who seemed interested in me. She wasn't listening to music nor reading a book.

All she had was a pink bag and I needed to think of something fast before she slips away. In the subway there was a sudden abundance of high school kids just running around (probably a field trip) and one of them kept falling on her when the driver breaks hard.

I took the opportunity to open her. I've decided I needed no time constraint here. In fact, if I did, it would've looked more pick up because it wouldn't seem normal. I opened with "you know, we're in a very dangerous situation here".

HB6.5: yeah..
*Girl falls on HB6.5 again*
Me: You're very passionate aren't you? You keep hugging her.
African American girl: ...
African American girl: Are you that guy from (name of shop here)?
Me: No.. why?
African American girl: cause you look like him. You really look like a guy I saw at the store.
African American Girl 2: What did mama say about talking to strangers?
Me: wow, you actually listen to your mama?
African American Girl 2: *ignores*

Me to HB6.5: you know, the transit commission should really give us pillows to protect ourselves
HB6.5: Yeah totally
Me: or we can just learn to dodge super well *does dodging motion*
HB6.5: yeah, except we don't have much space to dodge.

note: at this point, the opener has been exhausted and due to lack of practice with opening strangers, I don't have much to transition into. We both go silent but she's clearly interested.

HB6.5: It's so hot now eh?
Me: Yeah it's like 2 degrees this morning and now it's 16! And wow, I'm surprised, look at the sweater you have on. You must be hot in that thing.
HB6.5: Yeah, it's cold this morning so I had to wear it.
HB6.5: So where were you coming from? <---- Very good line that I've never thought of.
Me: Oh I just came from a Chinese exchange session.
HB6.5: There's a Chinese exchange on ---------- is that where you were at?
Me: Oh no, my university hosted an exchange so I came from ----------- Library.

HB6.5: Oh! I'm a student too.
Me: Oh cool! What university?
HB6.5: I got to ------------
Me: oh that's cool, I'm next door to you, my university is ---------------
HB6.5: What are you studying?
Me: I'm in East Asian Studies.
HB6.5: cool!
Me: Well actually, I don't know much about Indonesia. What do they speak in Indonesia? <- I should look at the map more.

HB6.5: uhmm... Indonesian?
Me: Oh, duh *smacks head*

*HB6.5 giggles*

Me: Yeah, East Asian studies should include more parts of Asia because they're only focused on China, Korea and Japan. I wish I could learn more about the other groups like Thai, Malaysia, and now that you've mentioned it, Indonesia.

Me: So what are you studying?
HB6.5: I'm in Hospital management.
Me: ah! So you're going to be the girl that goes do this do this do this *pointing fingers around*
HB6.5: hahaha, not yet, I'm only learning right now.

*Train stops at my stop*
Me: Well, this is my stop. It was nice talking to you
HB6.5: yep, nice talking to you too.

My thoughts

- Her pink bag was already sufficient enough for me to open. I didn't use it.

- I held an OK conversation, although it could be improved since the girl had to assist a little and we had a few blank outs

- Need to ramp up the kino (I did Zero kino)

- You can learn a lot from girls by interacting with them. Like style said, they will give you ideas on what you can say to elicit information from other girls in the future.

- I wasn't sure if I should wait for her to ask for my name or if I should've told her and asked for her name in the end

- Try not to take so long to warm up to her and hope to get a Number Close

- Need more help in Transition of topics (have a few common topics ready to pull in case I run out of material)

- The way I improvised allowed me to pick up this HB6.5 without looking like a pick up (even people had a vibe that it was, but it's very well concealed)

This is contrary to my previous approach which I tried to use a situational opener and failed miserably with the old lady smirking at me.

I've up the game, but the improvement was a marginal 0.5. I will continue to practice transitioning with people that I know already and other people that I will meet in school (less strain on me than strangers or pick up).

I felt my confidence level has really bumped up and it's gone up once again.

I suggest to those who are seriously considering day game to NOT use the opinion openers and situational openers. Here are my reasons:

1) They've been over used.

2) Girls can general pick up the vibe that you're picking them up (they know it anyways the moment you begin talking to them). They wouldn't care if they're interested in you anyways.

3) You will appear as in-authentic.

Day game is hard because it requires you to improvise and to find a situation that is happening AT THAT MOMENT to help you break the ice. I have yet to try "hello" or "whats up". I'm probably going to experiment with those and write back later.

2 openers that will always appear more authentic would be "what are you reading?" and "what are you listening to?"

You can also come out as a guy carring for a stranger's mood (eg: "You look happy today, did something good happen?" or "Smile, the world's a great place to be " and improvise on that).

there are so many different day-game openers i can think of for different situations. one of the best places i find for day game is probably coffee shops. Openers can range from is that good enough that i should try it? You know that you just made a life threatening choice by ordering that! (whisper in her ear that something gross is in it and then laugh sarcastically) and the fact that you have to stand in line next to strangers is great, many opportunities to start a conversation. I really liked your Opener for that one, and she definitely does appear to be in it. But the one thing you should really work on is fitting Kino into whatever you decide to say.

April 23 2010:

It's a continual process and since I've given up on this for a while, I feel like I needed to do something. I've listened to some David Angelo stuff but haven't actually tried to put it into use yet, so I thought, maybe I should try approaching again.

I went to my exam early and everyone was just scattered. We're all 1 class but everyone had their mini groups sitting light years apart. I chose a random spot to sit rather than approaching. I couldn't snap into the pick up mode so easily.

Hanna (not her real name), is a girl I've met through that class this year. She's showed some interest in me and I've been able to lead her for most of the stuff but we really never got together to do anything. She got my number, but I didn't.

Today was no different, she approached me. I felt good because I could go somewhere with this girl, but at the same time, I felt like a loser. This is not what I aimed to be.

We did the exams and basically she walked out with her friends while my friend Sam waited for me. I thought I had lost her when chance came by. She was trying to apply for student loans and when I approached my subway station, she came crossing over at the same time.

This must be fate! I can't lose this chance! I waited for her while she talked on the phone to her sister about student loan stuff and we proceeded to the subway. We chatted and stuff, I didn't Kino, I didn't know why I didn't.

At the stop where I had to get off, I told her that we should hang out. She nodded and said "yea", I smiled and stepped off the train. When I scrolled through my iPhone I noticed I didn't have her number. DRATS!

Rule#1:
- Get the girl's number even if you THINK you do. If you don't have it, you'll end up like me

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Story 2:

I was upset, my mood went down. HOW COULD I HAVE NOT TAKEN HER NUMBER? FACK! I decided I wanted to open someone. Near my stop was a beautiful girl looking at me with her shades on. I wanted to approach her and tell her that she looks nice, but I got scared when I got close, the better part of my mind held me back.

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Story 3:

I got to the bus terminal and this girl noticed me. She wasn't an extraordinary HB, I'd say 6.5-7, but I really wanted to open at least one girl, so I decided to approach her.


I didn't. I hesitated again. This is really not how I am. I've done this before!
I missed my stop on the bus and she got off on the next stop (the one which I also got off). I said to myself "ok if she gets off, I'm talkin to her!"


I didn't. I tried to catch the signal light running across instead of walking through my back yard which is the direction that she was walking with NO ONE in that area. It would've been prime opportunity to try things out without looking too awkward but I missed it!
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So there you have it, I'm not sure why I can't push through that barrier. Maybe I just don't know my materials like David Angelo said "If you are not ready, nothing will happen.


My plans:
- Listen to David Angelo some more to catch some opening techniques and armed with them, I can try again. I will open a girl next time.

- I think that I haven't opened enough girls to feel comfortable talking to them anywhere yet

May 12 2010 Update:

Story 0:

- Opened the first non-Chinese girl on the subway (if you read my last entries about random opening, they're all asian girls. This is my first Caucasian girl that I've opened).

- I asked her for directions, but my heart rate was going so fast, I couldn't continue the convo normally so I thanked her and went on my way, we went separate ways. My goal was to just open anyways

- Got off the train and noticed she was on the same train as me only on a different cart and felt confused "she knows where I wanted to go, why did she take a detour to take the same train as me?"

My thoughts
1) She thinks I'm a stalker? I don't think I came off as a stalker

2) My opening was not natural enough? I walked off slowly waiting for ppl around me to pass by and for her to catch up before opening. I think it looks natural myself.

3)What can I do to continue my conversation there? how do I go about asking about her stuff without interrogating her?

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Story 1:

- Summer class started about 3 days ago and I saw a lot of my friends from previous classes. One of them was Diamond (not her real name).

- Diamond and I met about a year ago at a class, I saw her just last semester in the same class and well, the class I'm taking right now too

- I can tell Diamond is interested in me in certain ways, she's not 100% nerd, but she seems to be very ambitious about her studies all the time

- I find that sometimes, I don't know what to talk to her about, I haven't been able to find out her special interests which I can use as topics to branch out on.

- I kino opened her by tapping her on the shoulder to simply ask if she was going to stay the extra hour of class, which we both decided not to and talked on our way out until she left me first since she had to use the washroom.

My thoughts:
How can I strategically position the conversation so I can grab as much info out of her without looking like an interrogation?

What ways can I make our conversation more interesting than "What are you going to study after undergrad?" and "Did you get a chance to talk to that prof about your mark yet?"

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Story 2:

- Chewy (not her real name), was the last girl I met that I farked up on before I studied PUAism

- She's about an HB 6 - 6.5, but has a very adorable smile and personality

- She's younger than me (check mark)

- I admired her for her sense of art (she's a ballet dancer)

How did I fail on my pre-pua attempt?

- asked her 4 times to go out with me before she did

- sent her daily emails which started off to be essays and tried to improve it to short notes (didn't help, she was already annoyed at my constant messaging)

- Asked for her number, got a dead number and didn't cue into her rejection

- Got her to tell me her house number and called her numerous times

- Went on 1 REALLY WEIRD date (only at 1 venue drinking bubble tea)

- Didn't cue in when she started saying her phone battery is running out very frequently during calls to her house and eventually gave up.

This girl has turned out to be in this very same class that Diamond and I are in and when she saw the new me (talking to multiple girls), she started gaining interest back in me. I pretended like I was looking around the room to see if she sat at the same spot and she opened me herself (acting as if she was shocked to notice me even though I totally knew it was fake).

She told me she would sit next to me when break comes. I put my pencil case beside me (there was an empty seat), but when a girl came into my row to look for a seat, I lifted my pencil case and she sat next to me (trying to create jealousy and scarcity).

I figured that I can't go wrong gaming her again with my newly learned PUA skills, I can control my feelings for a girl way better than before (after girl A) so I won't fall into the same trap. I have more patience and I know how to flirt with girls a lot better (more on this on my next story update). With experience learned from Zar, I'm able to be more sexual without losing control.

I remember being so horny when Zar placed her hand on my lap and started rubbing it. My little brother started having huge reactions and it was embarrassing since her arm was right on it. But this gave me the experience I needed to stay calm even when kino happens.

We talked about general things and she tried to keep the convo going. In fact, she even followed me to the washroom and didn't leave instantly. She stood there talking to me for a while before I pointed to the washroom and said "well, I think should be heading to the washroom now".

When I left class with Diamond, I don't know if she followed me or what happened, but once I parted with Diamond, she somehow ended up being just infront of me. She held the door for open as I got close to the door and peeked. Her gesture gave away that she knew I was right behind her (it's the eyes... I can tell). Just as she thought I would give in like I normally do in the past (walking her to her dad's car), I told her I needed to get loan documents and bid her farewell.

So far the game is good. I'm hoping I can invite her out for another date, but I need to be ready with 3 venues and different ideas for more interaction and venues that allow more kino rather than raw talking at a tea shop.

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Story 3 (special edition):

Story 3 brings out the new PUA and naughty side of me. It's about my friend Ayu. She was engaged around last year December. I believe this happened because I know somehow her bf could tell that she likes me. Indeed she does.

How do I know? She confessed indirectly. Learning about PUAism blew her bf OUT OF THE WATER! Ayu isn't the type of girl I'd want for life. Somehow I get horny when I think of her due to her personality, but her looks are at best a 6. I know I can get better girls so I didn't settle when she confessed.

I wanted to see how far I can get with being naughty so since her bf is away on a trip, I decided to invite her out for a dinner with my buddies. We've all been friends for a long time so there weren't awkward moments. One of my friend in particular, has a gf himself and knows foundation rules to being alpha (he didn't study PUAism, he just does it naturally).

We paired up subconsciously and created a dynamic duo of cocky funny guys. We teased Ayu like no tomorrow calling her by her bf's last name and jokingly called her an old lady.

When we got on the car, the first thing she did was give me a massage on the back. That's a sign she wanted to flirt so I quickly placed one of my hand on hers while massaging me and I rested on it. I knew it was gonna be weird so I gave her hand a gentle massage. She got turned on by it and by the time we set out for pooling later, she was massively flirting putting her hand around my shoulder (I placed my hand around her waist) pretending to be "bros" and touching each other's butt with snooker sticks, bumping into each other and using our waists to rub against each other.

Everything got wrecked when her bf called. It reminded her not to be so "slutty" so she started to build slight defenses even though she still continued. When I tried to rub her thighs to make her wet, she pushed my hand off but I kept it cool. I gave her a back rub and if my friend wasn't there, I would've kissed her and escalated rapidly.

I felt guilty after. This guy after all is somewhat my friend, but it's also very tempted at the same time to see how far I can take this girl. I'm willing to bet money if I was alone in the car with her and we continued, we could even possibly lead to sex.

We didn't call each other after and just left it there. When I got off the car she started joking with me so I stayed for a bit to play with her hair and held onto her hand for a while longer.

My thoughts:

I need a place REALLY BAD to continue isolation. Everything was so heated with this girl. I got wet a bit myself personally from fooling around with her so I'm willing to bet it's probably the same for her. To some degree I know she's got high desires for me, I feel I haven't brought out the full potential, otherwise she would've let loose.

In the case where her bf called, I didn't know how to respond after when she raised her awareness levels. How can I bypass that?

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