Sorry, I'm in the middle of exams and I was a little hasty with some of what I said. My post wasn't directed to the lifting programs you suggested and was mainly directed towards your statements regarding supplements. My fault, I'm tired and I apologize for the misstatements.

But as for your statements regarding supplements and going "natural," I stand by what I said.

First, "natural" is a definition thing, so it depends on how you define it. But in bodybuilding and most strength sports, "natural" is not confined to protein and creatine, and in fact, I don't know of any federation that limits their athletes to such a list. Any serious athlete will take other things, such as caffeine pre-workout and BCAAs pre-, intra-, and post-workout. For your reference, this post provides a decent overview of banned substances in natural competitions.

As for supplements, I've already said that a lot of them are crap. In fact, I would dispute that you have to "maintain" them to keep your gains, because most products sold at these places haven't been shown to provide any gains in the first place. And your one example, "volumizers" or cell-volumizers are usually made with NO enhancers and creatine. All creatine is is a "cell-volumizer."

So like I said, educate yourself before spending money on supplements, but don't avoid supplements "just because." There are good products on the market and if you do your research you'll find what works and what doesn't.

Again, I'm sorry for jumping all over your post without making it clear what I was disagreeing with and I'm also sorry for doing it in such an abrupt manner.